Do you guys consider Hewramans to be Pahli Kurds?

[jjmuneer]

It may be small, but non the less it makes a big difference when you have alot of small differences. By the way Bo and Chi is not the same thing. Chi means what in Sorani.

Bo = For
Chî =what.
Bo chî = what for (why).

the same in feyli erre che. not right?

kurmancî:
ji bo = because of,
ji bo chi ?= because of what ?
ji chi ra = for what?
chima? = why?
chim = reason
chimku = because

How are you telling me what my dialect is? Ereche=WHY

I'm not going to argue with you, because you don't know feyli and you never translated what the man said, you also show no sources. You are just being bias and judging a language based on a few words. I will not bother responding anymore, nothing personal but you just acknowledge a fact.

[jjmuneer]

Not true because I could hear many sorani related words during the conversation. I'm a not good at Kurmanci very sadly so I don't know about that. I never said fayli was persian influenced. If you go and read through some of your comments you'll see what I mean with trying to make it look like Fayli is another major kurdish dialect like Sorani and Kurmanci. Why do you wanna unify? If you now understand want a zazaki speaker or hawrami speaker says than unify but why? I think I'll stick to say Southern Kurdish because it is eassier and much more understandable. The southern kurdish dialects are similair to each other right? Then there is no need for change

I already told you that man is a Khaluri Fayli, so his dialect is Sorani influenced.
Anyways what do you mean Fayli isn't a major dialect? Its spoken by atleast 1 million people, so I'd like to think its quite big. Thats also not taking into account the Laki speakers who don't identify as Fayli.
I never said I understand Zazaki, what is wrong with you people. You never listen but only talk, I said Hewrami is closer to Fayli and yes I can understand most of Hewrami. Why unity? Well I said it before, but I'll say it again. Both Pahli languages, except the only difference is Hewrami is just more archaic than Fayli. That in my opinion is more related to geographic positioning.
Again you refer to it as Southern Kurdish that was created by some Russian guy.

[jjmuneer]

Guys its a matter of fact that Hewrami is part of the Gurans and they understand Feyli better than Zazaki. Zazaki and Hewrami just share some historical similarities which shows us that they were once the same but a Zaza in my opinion can understand a Kurmanji better than Hewrami.

That is what I'm saying Both Hewrami and Fayli are in the same dialect grouping and on top of that they are neighbours next to eachother. Whilst Zaza is all the way in the North with probably Kurmanji influence.

[kurd-sthanam]

How are you telling me what my dialect is? Ereche=WHY

because i readed a feyli linguist. http://jiyan.dk/2010/08/l%C3%A6r-feyli- ... lektion-1/

I'm not going to argue with you, because you don't know feyli and you never translated what the man said, you also show no sources. You are just being bias and judging a language based on a few words. I will not bother responding anymore, nothing personal but you just acknowledge a fact.

it was not this topic another topic. i wrote precicesly what the man said. and in FEYLI not english. and than i wrote it in kurmanci.
in the same topic i posted 4 kurdish linguists as source, but you send me a kurdish writer, not real LINGUIST.

send please words when you know, i am searching and posting i give examples but you come with a silly arguments supported by only 1 kurdish writer who is NOT linguist.

1. Prof. Amir hassanpour (support: kurmanci, sorani, hawrami and kirmashani)
2. Mackenzie (North, Central, South and non-kurdish)
3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)
4. abdulrahman zabini (North group, Central group, hewrami/dimili, south group)

parthians are not kurds. kurds are only medes.

[Kurdistano]

1. Prof. Amir hassanpour (support: kurmanci, sorani, hawrami and kirmashani)
2. Mackenzie (North, Central, South and non-kurdish)
3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)
4. abdulrahman zabini (North group, Central group, hewrami/dimili, south group)

parthians are not kurds. kurds are only medes.

Guys not every "prof or Dr" is worth to be mentioned. Mackenzie the old ass did never ever worked on Sorani or Feyli, he was pretty well known for his anti Kurdish stance and was once thrown out of a Kurdish house when he said something like "damn these Kurds were persistent when we burned down their villages" as he was drunk.


I would add Gernort Windfuhr and Kreyenbork to this list. Both very famous and Gernort Windfuhr probably the most famous of our time.

[jjmuneer]

How are you telling me what my dialect is? Ereche=WHY

because i readed a feyli linguist. http://jiyan.dk/2010/08/l%C3%A6r-feyli- ... lektion-1/

I'm not going to argue with you, because you don't know feyli and you never translated what the man said, you also show no sources. You are just being bias and judging a language based on a few words. I will not bother responding anymore, nothing personal but you just acknowledge a fact.

it was not this topic another topic. i wrote precicesly what the man said. and in FEYLI not english. and than i wrote it in kurmanci.
in the same topic i posted 4 kurdish linguists as source, but you send me a kurdish writer, not real LINGUIST.

send please words when you know, i am searching and posting i give examples but you come with a silly arguments supported by only 1 kurdish writer who is NOT linguist.

1. Prof. Amir hassanpour (support: kurmanci, sorani, hawrami and kirmashani)
2. Mackenzie (North, Central, South and non-kurdish)
3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)
4. abdulrahman zabini (North group, Central group, hewrami/dimili, south group)

parthians are not kurds. kurds are only medes.

Firstly what is my "silly" argument? What that I present facts and put the dialects in the right group?

I don't remember you translating anything, nor can you do it now lol. Even so, I don't understand Kurmanji, so how would I know your translating it right? but since it is very close I know Kurmanji 100%

parthians are not kurds. kurds are only mede

LOL. Firstly most of central and south Kurdistan was Pahli speaking, I already posted a source earlier on, go scroll back for it. Secondly thats bullshit that its only Mede. Your so brainwashed, as Mede from a linguistic prespective is only Kurmanci(north/south), whilst Fayli(pahli) and Hewrami is Pahli(parthian).

Anyway the fact you stated "it is only Mede" goes to show you never read what I write and source. If you want me to take you seriously, actually read what I write and source.

I will however re quote it:

historical fact on the root of the name of the Pahli is fully clear. As M. R. Izady notes in his work (The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, London, 1992), the territory inhabited by the Pahli/Fayli Kurds was known as "Pahla" (meaning "Parthia") since the 3rd century AD. The area boasted to one of the most important Parthian settlements outside Parthia proper (or Khurasan). The name "Pahla" was likewise used for the area by the early Muslim geographer until the 13th century, after which the name "Luristan" gradually came to replace it.

From "Fahla" has since evolved Faila and Faili -- the modern name of the Pahli Kurds. In fact, there is still a small town called Pahla in the south of the major city of Ilam in South Kurdistan which is the heart of traditional settlement occupied by Pahlis.

1. Prof. Amir hassanpour (support: kurmanci, sorani, hawrami and kirmashani)
He didn't even take into account Zazaki or Laki.

2. Mackenzie (North, Central, South and non-kurdish)
He didn't take into account Laki and didn't consider Hewrami or Zazaki Kurdish.

3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)
Firstly Laki isn't south Kirmanci, yes Khaluri/Kirmanshahi is, but not Laki. As its Pahli.

4. abdulrahman zabini (North group, Central group, hewrami/dimili, south group)
Not even going to bother with this one.


Do you have the actual sources for them?

[unitedkurdistan]

Not true because I could hear many sorani related words during the conversation. I'm a not good at Kurmanci very sadly so I don't know about that. I never said fayli was persian influenced. If you go and read through some of your comments you'll see what I mean with trying to make it look like Fayli is another major kurdish dialect like Sorani and Kurmanci. Why do you wanna unify? If you now understand want a zazaki speaker or hawrami speaker says than unify but why? I think I'll stick to say Southern Kurdish because it is eassier and much more understandable. The southern kurdish dialects are similair to each other right? Then there is no need for change

I already told you that man is a Khaluri Fayli, so his dialect is Sorani influenced.
Anyways what do you mean Fayli isn't a major dialect? Its spoken by atleast 1 million people, so I'd like to think its quite big. Thats also not taking into account the Laki speakers who don't identify as Fayli.
I never said I understand Zazaki, what is wrong with you people. You never listen but only talk, I said Hewrami is closer to Fayli and yes I can understand most of Hewrami. Why unity? Well I said it before, but I'll say it again. Both Pahli languages, except the only difference is Hewrami is just more archaic than Fayli. That in my opinion is more related to geographic positioning.
Again you refer to it as Southern Kurdish that was created by some Russian guy.

Well if you understand Hawrami than you should understand Zazaki, it doesn' matter if it is a bit more influenced by Kurmanci. How come Zazaki speakers and Hawrami speakers understand eachother perfectly( I have proof) and that Fayli understand Hawrami but not Zazaki. Well this russian orientalist spent years studiyng kurdish history, geography, literature, and culture and he deserves some respect for that and appreciation don't you agree?
Now this is taken from wiki: The dialects of Southern Kurdish are:
Kermashani The Standard dialect of Southern Kurdish
Kalhuri, referring to Kalhor people and region
Feyli (also known as Ilami) referring to the Feyli tribe and the Ilam Province. It had around 3 million speakers in Iran in 2000.[3][4][5] Beyrey or Mahaki (which is a sub-dialect of Feyli)
Kolyaî, Kermanshahi (Kermānšānî)
Garrusi (Gerrûsî) (Bijari)
Malekshahi (Melikşay)
Sanjâbi (Sencabî) referring to the Sanjâbi people. It's a branch of Luri-Feyli language family

Laki is a Northwestern Iranian language. Although it is usually grouped with Southern Kurdish dialects, it is a fourth subgroup of Kurdish with lexical similarity with Luri, Western Persian, and Northern Luri.

sorry for my ignorance but do you consider all of these dialects to be Fayli? Isn't it eassier just to group them as southern kurdish, can't we just say that Fayli is the biggest dialect in southern kurdish and Sorani is the major dialect in central kurdish and Kurmanci is the major dialect in northern/western kurdish? There is no point of unifying any dialect according to me, Hawrami is endagered and needs to be protected not merged with another dialect.

[hevalo27]

3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)

that is exactly my view !
we know that even sorani kurds called himself kurmanc in the past.

jj, you can understand hawrami and sorani a bit, because the kurdish languages and dialects influenced each other, they are intertwined, gernot windfuhr says
"the kurdish complex", but laki is mostly southkurdish (for me kurmanci), while hawrami is clearly another branch of kurdish

[jjmuneer]

3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)

that is exactly my view !
we know that even sorani kurds called himself kurmanc in the past.

jj, you can understand hawrami and sorani a bit, because the kurdish languages and dialects influenced each other, they are intertwined, gernot windfuhr says
"the kurdish complex", but laki is mostly southkurdish (for me kurmanci), while hawrami is clearly another branch of kurdish

No I understand Sorani because I have family who have inter married with Soranis.

Laki is not Kurmanci, where do you get that from? You guys are grouping the dialects by yourselfs like your professors. Being Kurdish doesn't mean you know everything about the Kurdish dialects.

[jjmuneer]

Not true because I could hear many sorani related words during the conversation. I'm a not good at Kurmanci very sadly so I don't know about that. I never said fayli was persian influenced. If you go and read through some of your comments you'll see what I mean with trying to make it look like Fayli is another major kurdish dialect like Sorani and Kurmanci. Why do you wanna unify? If you now understand want a zazaki speaker or hawrami speaker says than unify but why? I think I'll stick to say Southern Kurdish because it is eassier and much more understandable. The southern kurdish dialects are similair to each other right? Then there is no need for change

I already told you that man is a Khaluri Fayli, so his dialect is Sorani influenced.
Anyways what do you mean Fayli isn't a major dialect? Its spoken by atleast 1 million people, so I'd like to think its quite big. Thats also not taking into account the Laki speakers who don't identify as Fayli.
I never said I understand Zazaki, what is wrong with you people. You never listen but only talk, I said Hewrami is closer to Fayli and yes I can understand most of Hewrami. Why unity? Well I said it before, but I'll say it again. Both Pahli languages, except the only difference is Hewrami is just more archaic than Fayli. That in my opinion is more related to geographic positioning.
Again you refer to it as Southern Kurdish that was created by some Russian guy.

Well if you understand Hawrami than you should understand Zazaki, it doesn' matter if it is a bit more influenced by Kurmanci. How come Zazaki speakers and Hawrami speakers understand eachother perfectly( I have proof) and that Fayli understand Hawrami but not Zazaki. Well this russian orientalist spent years studiyng kurdish history, geography, literature, and culture and he deserves some respect for that and appreciation don't you agree?
Now this is taken from wiki: The dialects of Southern Kurdish are:
Kermashani The Standard dialect of Southern Kurdish
Kalhuri, referring to Kalhor people and region
Feyli (also known as Ilami) referring to the Feyli tribe and the Ilam Province. It had around 3 million speakers in Iran in 2000.[3][4][5] Beyrey or Mahaki (which is a sub-dialect of Feyli)
Kolyaî, Kermanshahi (Kermānšānî)
Garrusi (Gerrûsî) (Bijari)
Malekshahi (Melikşay)
Sanjâbi (Sencabî) referring to the Sanjâbi people. It's a branch of Luri-Feyli language family

Laki is a Northwestern Iranian language. Although it is usually grouped with Southern Kurdish dialects, it is a fourth subgroup of Kurdish with lexical similarity with Luri, Western Persian, and Northern Luri.

sorry for my ignorance but do you consider all of these dialects to be Fayli? Isn't it eassier just to group them as southern kurdish, can't we just say that Fayli is the biggest dialect in southern kurdish and Sorani is the major dialect in central kurdish and Kurmanci is the major dialect in northern/western kurdish? There is no point of unifying any dialect according to me, Hawrami is endagered and needs to be protected not merged with another dialect.

You trust wikipedia? Lol anyway can write on wikipedia its so stupid to trust it. Do you have any sources for those claims? As wikipedia is full of shit frankly. Feyli isn't even the dialect, Laki is.
Any Kurdish group speaking a Kurmanci dialect cannot be a Fayli(Pahli), so no I don't view the Kirmanshahis who are urbanized as Faylis, but the ones in the countryside who still speak Laki yes.

By the way Hewramis can't understand Zazakis, that is complete non-sense.

Minorsiky considered Hewrami not to be Kurdish, so he cannot be acknowledge, nor can Kenzie.

[hevalo27]

3. Prof. Jemal Nebez (north kirmanci, central kirmanci, south kirmanci, gorani/zazaki)

Laki is not Kurmanci, where do you get that from? You guys are grouping the dialects by yourselfs like your professors. Being Kurdish doesn't mean you know everything about the Kurdish dialects.

kurdish languages are divided in two big branches. first is named Kurdish by linguistic and second Zaza-Gorani.
you can name this branches as you want. i personally replaced kurdish with kurmanci, like Professor Jemal Nebez, because kurdish was never the name of any language, it was the name of the kurdish peoples, it has an ethnic importance.

but it is a fact that the first big branch, no matter how you name it, includes Laki

it is possible that you speak a mix-dialect of southkurdish and hawrami-kurdish

[jjmuneer]

Where is this fact you speak of?
So you are say Laki is Kurmanci dialect? lol Yet my sources from the 'kurdishacademy' webiste show otherwise. You cannot refute their sources or references, as it 100% pro kurdish site. By the way you are saying we are not Pahlis? That is quite an insult personally to me and to other Laki Feylis.

By the way Fayli is not a mixed dialect, Ilami(the one I spak) is one of the purest forms of Fayli.

[hevalo27]

Where is this fact you speak of?
So you are say Laki is Kurmanci dialect?

it is a part of the big branch by western linguistic named Kurdish

i dont know who is your ancestor and no matter wheter median, parthian or afrcian actually we are kurds

[jjmuneer]

Where is this fact you speak of?
So you are say Laki is Kurmanci dialect?

it is a part of the big branch by western linguistic named Kurdish

i dont know who is your ancestor and no matter wheter median, parthian or afrcian actually we are kurds

Lol so you don't know nothing about Kurdish history? or Kurdish clans? You still haven't provided a source.

[hevalo27]

all profs except izady agree that laki is closer to sorani, kurd-stahnam gave you enough examples and you dont accept sources