Do you guys consider Hewramans to be Pahli Kurds?

[jjmuneer]

This is very infomrative about Laki:
Grammatical tense in Laki Nurabadi Dialect: A dichotomous tense structure
Mahinnaz Mirdehghan, Shahid Beheshti University, Iran
Mohammad Nuri, Shahid Beheshti University, Iran
The present research accounts for the characteristic tense patterns of the verbal system in Laki Nurabadi dialect, in comparison to Farsi language. The study takes the following course of progress. It consists of an analysis of a set of related phenomena within the sample, including a brief introduction to the dialect position in Iranian language family, together with a survey of structural analyses within it. The paper presents the dialectal conjugation verb patterns in a dichotomous fashion of the major categories of past/non-past forms, compared to the triple past/future/present classification of Farsi. The analysis of the past forms, accordingly, includes: past simple, past continuous, past and present perfect; as well as, subjunctive and progressive forms. The non-past analysis, additionally, describes: present indicative, present subjunctive, and present progressive forms.
Keywords: Laki Nurabadi (N.Laki) dialect; Northwestern Iranian language family; Dichotomous categorization; Verb structure; Past forms; Non-past forms
1. Introduction
Laki as a dialect among the living dialects of Farsi, with 1,000,000 speakers and 150,000 monolinguals, is spoken in the regions of Western Iran, Ilam and Lorestan provinces, and the cities of Aleshtar, Kuhdasht, Nurabad, Khorramabad (Gordon 2005). Linguistically it's classified as a dialect of Kurdish within the Northwestern Iranian languages (Ibid), and reveals great amount of similarities to the Lurish (78%) and Persian (70%) languages (It's to be noted that MacKenzie considers N.Laki a separate language from Kurdish (as well as Lori); though he asserts their sharing a large number of vocabulary (Wikipedia)). In this accordance, Lak nation is considered as an independent tribe among Irano-Aryan nations, with specific cultural, musical and traditional characteristics. Aalipour (2005) notifies that in addition to Laki speaking tribes, nowadays Lak is also used to refer to several villages and regions in Iran, including: Ghorveh of Kordestan, Khodabandeh of Sanandaj, a village in Orumieh, Ahar in Ardebil, Qazvin, Aligudarz, Miandoab and Qom.
10 | Mahinnaz Mirdehghan & Mohammad Nuri
The present research has been focused on the Laki dialect spoken in Nurabad, a city in the Lorestan province in western Iran. Some tribes of Nurabad Laks have immigrated to the northern parts of Iran and habitated in Kelardasht, Mekaroud, Titdare and Kojour areas. Some others called Kuroni from Tarhanian Laks have moved to Khodaabad, Shapour Kazerun and Chehel Cheshmeh regions of the country sides of Shiraz. The study is aimed to present a structural analysis of the verb as a major part of speech, within the grammatical system of Laki Nurabadi (N.Laki). The dialect under consideration reveals considerable differences with Farsi that are to be pointed out here.
2. Background
Most researches on Laki dialect are on the basis of ethnological and archaeological grounds, among which the classification of Laki within the Kurdish language can be notified. In this regard and in representing the status of Laki the following triple categorization of Kurdish language has been stated by Tafaroji Yeganeh (2006), for instance, who classifies Laki as a Kermanshahi dialect, as represented below. His classification includes: 1) The Northern Kurmanji: including Bayzidi, Hakari, Ashity, Boutani and Badiani dialects; 2) The Southern Kurmanji: including the dialects of Makri, Sourani, Senehee (Sannandaji) and Soleymanieh; 3) The Kermanshahi: including Kalhori, Laki and Poshtkouhi dialects. Similarly, Yarkhazadi (1379) has asserted the following categorization which considers Laki as a Kermanshahi-Lori dialect. In his categories he considers: 1) Northern Kurdish (Kurmanji), 2) Southern kurdish (Soudani), 3) Gurani-Zazaee, and 4) Kermanshahi-Lori (which includes Kermanshahi, Lori, Phili, Laki and Bakhtiary dialects.
In accordance, the lack of linguistic researches in the field is quite sensible; due to which, an imposition of the linguistic structure of Farsi can be observed on Laki descriptions, in most descriptive cases of the dialect. As an instant, Aalipour (2005) defines the conjugation patterns of all Laki tenses to be exactly alike Farsi; while a mere comparison of the past tense verbs of Farsi and Laki represents their huge inflectional differences, which is to be discussed in detail throughout the current research.
3. METHOD
The present research, with the aim to study the systematic patterns of verb tenses in Laki Nurabadi (N.Laki), has mainly been prepared on the basis of a field based research method, and its domain contains Laki Dialect (of Nurabad); the dialect, which in spite of being spoken in different parts of Iran lacks the required linguistic studies. The matter includes both the linguistic knowledge of one of the authors, as a speaker of N.Laki and a resident of
International Journal of Language Studies (IJLS), Vol. 4(2), 2010 | 11
Nurabad, as well as providing interviews with other N.Laki Nurabadi speakers who participated in the survey. Additionally, a list of above 100 N.Laki verbs have been analyzed in achieving the characteristic patterns of its verbal system demonstrated throughout the paper. The analysis is provided in comparison to standard written Farsi (Persian), as the official language of Iran.
The importance of the research, among other things, lies in considerable differences observed among the conjugation verb patterns of the dialectal system under consideration and Farsi. Accordingly, by demonstrating the noted linguistic aspects of the dialect, the research can help preventing its deterioration.
The inventories of vowel phonemes of N.Laki and Farsi, which are used throughout the research, are shown in Table (1) comparatively.
Table 1
Inventories of Vowel Phonemes of N.Laki and Farsi
N.Laki
Farsi
Front
Center
Back
Front
Center
Back
High
i
u, .
i
u
Mid
e, .
o, .
e
o
.
Low
a
a
a
a
As seen in Table (1), N.Laki. includes four extra vowels in comparison to Farsi, which are: /./, /./, /./, /./. In regard to the consonantal phonemes of N.Laki, noteworthy is that, an extra semi-vowel /w/ is observed in the dialect comparatively to Farsi.
In the procedure we take the following sequence is undertaken to produce the desired result. First, the patterns of the verb in N.Laki are described along with a comparison of the structures with Farsi, which are represented within tables. The tables are considered to be of great importance in showing the differential patterns and the results of the comparative study in analyzing the gathered data. The session specifically indicates a dichotomous past/non-past tense division in N.Laki and its differences to Farsi, as well as person/number classifications in the two systems. Following the analysis, the research results are discussed, which are finally accompanied with the conclusion.
4. Data analysis
To analyze the gathered verb patterns of N.Laki and Farsi comparatively, itfs to be noted that in the verbal system of Farsi in order to conjugate verbs in different tenses, conjugative enclitics are attached to stems (and participles). Accordingly in formulating past simple the past enclitics, i.e. (/am/) 1st
12 | Mahinnaz Mirdehghan & Mohammad Nuri
person singular, (/i/) 2nd person singular, (O) 3rd person singular, (/im/) 1st person plural, (/id/) 2nd person plural, (/and/) for 3rd person plural, are added to the past stem. The point is illustrated in the conjugation pattern of the Farsi verb form /xordan/ "to eat" in Table (2).
Table 2
Conjugational Pattern of the Verb Form /xordan/ "to eat" in Farsi
PER/NUM
1ST SG
2ND SG
3RD SG
1ST PL
2ND PL
3RD PL
Farsi
xord-am "I ate"
xord-i "you ate"
xord-O "he/she ate"
xord-im "we ate"
xord-id "you ate"
xord-and "they ate"
This is while in N.Laki the past simple forms are conjugated by the aid of occasionally different enclitics as seen in Table (3). The table represents the conjugation patterns of the verb forms /hward.n/ "to eat", /..n/ gto goh, and /xanin/ gto laughh in N.Laki.
Table 3
Conjugation Patterns of /hward.n/ "to eat", /..n/ gto goh, and /xanin/ gto laughh
PER/NUM
N.LAKI
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI
FARSI/
ENGLISH
1st/SG
hward.m
xordam "I ate"
..m
raftam "I went"
xanim
xandidam "I laughed"
dim
didam "y gI saw"
2nd/SG
hward.t
xordi "you ate"
.in
rafti "you went"
xanin
xandidi "you laughed"
dit
didi "you saw"
3rd/SG
hward.
xord "she/he ate"
..
raft "she/he went"
xani
xandid "she/he laughed"
di.
did "she/he saw"
1st/PL
hwardmon
xordim "we ate"
.im.n
raftim "we went"
xanim.n
xandidim "we laughed"
dimon
didim "we saw"
2nd/PL
hwardton
xordid "you ate"
.inon
raftid "you went"
xaninon
xandidid "you laughed"
diton
didid "you saw"
3rd/PL
hwardon
xordand "they ate"
..n
raftand "they went"
xanin
xandidand "they laughed"
diyon
didand "they saw"
The above pattern can, first of all, illustrate the influence of the final vowel of the root on phonetic changes of the enclitics; which is observed, for instance, in 1st person singular enclitics of N.Laki as /.m/, /im/, in 1st person plurals as
International Journal of Language Studies (IJLS), Vol. 4(2), 2010 | 13
/m.n/, /mon/, and in 3rd person plurals as /yon/, /n-on/, in the above table. Secondly, the pattern indicates the difference in the dialectal enclitics of past simple forms; as seen in 2nd person singulars, /it/, /in /, /.t/, and 2nd person plurals like /non/, /ton/. The pattern, thirdly, shows that in some structures of N.Laki, such as in 3rd person singular within which Farsi lacks enclitics in general, N.Laki represents it in some verb forms as /hward./ "ate" and /dit./ "saw", while lacks it in other verbs as /../ "went" and /xani/ "laughed". Further related explanations have been presented in the following sections.
5. Tense Classifications of N.Laki in comparison to Farsi
Verb, as a doing word, is a part of speech that usually denotes an action, an occurrence, or a state of being. Tense, in this regard, can be a factor according to which languages may show variations on verb patterns, which can be along with other qualities such as mood, voice, aspect, and person. Accordingly, many languages, as well as Farsi define tense in terms of a triple past/future/present classification; as seen in Table (4) for the infinitive form /amadam/ gto comeh in Farsi, and the dual past/present (non-past) classification of /hat.n/ gto comeh in N.Laki (where both present and future tenses have the same form):
Table 4
Triple Past/Present/Future Tense Classification of Farsi and Dual Past/Present Classification of N.Laki
Past
Present
Future
N.Laki
hat.m
mam
mam
FARSI/ENGLISH EQUIVALENT
amadam gI cameh
mi?ayam gIfm comingh
xaham ?amad gI will comeh
This paper is aimed to provide a survey of the verb structure N.Laki in regard to the qualities of number and tense, and to present an analysis of its similarities and differences to Farsi. In comparison to the triple tense classification of Farsi, N.Laki represents a dichotomous past/non-past tense division without any independent structure for showing future tense. In regard to person and number, both, N.Laki and Farsi, show similar patterns. The matter will be explained throughout the paper.
5.1. Past tenses in N.Laki
In N.Laki past tense can be seen in five forms, as illustrated in the paper:
5.1.1. Past simple tense
In Farsi, as noted before, the structure of past simple tense is formed as: "past stem + the conjugative enclitics /am, i, O, im, id, and/", which was exemplified in Table (1).
14 | Mahinnaz Mirdehghan & Mohammad Nuri
However, in N.Laki several inflectional structures are observed in past simple tense forms, which due to internal conjugational similarities are divided into two separate groups in this paper.
5.1.1.1: The first group of past simple tenses in N.Laki contains verbs, the stem of which contains consonantal ending phonemes, specifically /t/ and /d/, and vocalic endings /i/ and /a/. In the case of the occurrence of the high vowel /a/, within this group, the vowel influences singular forms as well as third person plural forms which get assimilated with the primary vowel of the verb, as seen in Table (5).
Table 5
Conjugation Pattern of the Verb Form /dayn/ gto giveh
1ST SG
2ND SG
3RD SG
1ST PL
2ND PL
3RD PL
N.Laki
dam
dat
day
damon
daton
dawon
FARSI/ENGLISH EQUIVALENT
dadam gI gaveh
dadi gYou gaveh
dad gShe/he gaveh
dadim gWe gaveh
dadid gYou gaveh
dadand gThey gaveh
In the case of the appearance of the high vowel /i/ as the ending phoneme of past stems of this group, it affects 1st and 2nd person singular enclitics again, as well as 3rd person plural ones, which get assimilated to them. Also the 3rd person singular forms of these type verbs receive the enclitic /te/.
The structure of past tense in N.Laki is formed as follows: "past stem + the conjugative enclitics /.m, .t, ., mon, ton, on/", as shown in the following patterns of the infinitive forms /g.st.n/ gto wanth, /dayn/ gto giveh, and /v.t.n/ gto tellh in Table (6).
Table 6
Conjugation Patterns of /g.st.n/ gto wanth, /dayn/ gto giveh, and /v.t.n/ gto tellh
PER/NUM
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
1st/SG
g.st.m
xastam gI wantedh
dam
dadam gI gaveh
v.t.m
goftam gI toldh
2nd/SG
g.st.t
xasti gYou wantedh
dat
dadi gYou gaveh
v.t.t
gofti gYou toldh
3rd/SG
g.st..
xast gShe/he wantedh
day
dad gShe/he gaveh
v.t.
goft gShe/he toldh
1st/PL
g.st.mon
xastim gWe wantedh
damon
dadim gWe gaveh
v.tmon
goftim gWe toldh
International Journal of Language Studies (IJLS), Vol. 4(2), 2010 | 15
2nd/PL
g.stton
xastid gYou wantedh
daton
dadid gYou gaveh
v.tton
goftid gYou toldh
3rd/PL
g.ston
xastand gThey wantedh
dawon
dadand gThey gaveh
v.ton
goftand gThey toldh
5.1.1.2: The Second group of past simple tenses in N.Laki includes verbs the past stem of which may have both vocalic and consonantal endings. The difference of this group from the first one lies in the difference of the conjugative enclitics of it in constructing past simple tense forms (However, noteworthy is that for verbs ending with consonants, their 1st person singular enclitic is the same as the first group).
The other major difference of these two groups is that the form of 3rd person plurals in these verbs is the same as their infinitive form. Additionally, some verbs of this group the past stem of which ends with /i/ have the same form for 2nd person singular and 3rd person plurals; as exemplified in: /xanim/ "I laughed", /xanin/ "you laughed", /xani/ "she/he laughed", /xanim.n/ "we laughed", /xaninon/ "you laughed", /xanin/ "they laughed".
The difference of the verbs ending with vowel /i/ and those ending with consonants in this group is that in the vocalic ending verbs due to the presence of vowel in the past stem, the vowel /./ in 1st person singulars and 3rd person plurals get assimilated with the vowel /i/ of the root; shown in Table (7) for some sample N.Laki forms.
Table 7
Conjugational Pattern of the Infinitive /bin/ "to be", /xanin/ "to laugh", and /kat.n/ "to fall"
PER/NUM
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
N.LAKI VERB
FARSI/
ENGLISH
1st/SG
bim
budam "I was"
xanim
xandidam "I laughed"
kat.m
oftadam "I fell"
2nd/SG
bin
budi "You were"
xanin
xandidi "You laughed"
katin
oftadi "You fell"
3rd/SG
bit.
bud "She/he was"
xani
xandid "She/he laughed"
kat
oftad "She/he fell"
1st/PL
bim.n
budim "We were"
xanim.n
xandidim "We laughed"
katim.n
oftadim "We fell"
2nd/PL
binon
budid "You were"
xaninon
xandidid "You laughed"
katinon
oftadid "You fell"
3rd/PL
bin
budand "They were"
xanin
xandidand "They laughed"
kat.n
oftadand "They fell"
16 | Mahinnaz Mirdehghan & Mohammad Nuri
5.1.2. Past continuous (Past imperfective)
In Farsi, the structure of past continuous is formed by the addition of the prefix /mi-/ to the conjugated forms of the past simple tense (i.e. past stem + past enclitic), as seen in: /mixordam/ "I was eating", /mixordi/ "you were eating", /mixord/ "she/he was eating", /mixordim/ "we were eating", /mixordid/ "you were eating", /mixordand/ "they were eating".
Comparatively, in N.Laki, in an apparently similar fashion, past continuous verbs are constructed by adding the prefix /ma/ to past simple stems. But this is a mere simplification of the matter, which has caused a great confusion and errors in analyzing the grammar of Laki. In fact, the structure of past continuous of N.Laki is totally different from Farsi. In this dialect, both primary and final phonemes of the past stem influence the conjugation patterns of the verbs and result in different conjugational forms of past continuous in it (Though, there exist a limited number of verbs in N.Laki, which are made by a simple addition of the prefix /ma/ to the beginning of the past simple form). The following paragraphs are intended to clarify the point.
5.1.2.1: In most of the verbs which we classified as the first group (˜5.1.1.1) in N.Laki here, if the stem of the past form of the verb begins with the high vowel /a/, the vowel of the past continuous prefix gets fused or assimilated with it. The matter is seen in Table (8), which illustrates the conjugations of the verb forms /ayt.n/ "to throw" and /aw.rd.n/ "to bring" in past continuous within the dialect.
Tabl 8
Past Continuous Forms of /ayt.n/ "to throw" and /aw.rd.n/ "to bring"
PERSON
1ST SG
2ND SG
3RD SG
1ST PL
2ND PL
3RD PL
N.Laki
mayt.m
mayt.t
mayt.
maytmon
maytton
mayton
FARSI/ENGLISH EQUIVALENT
mi?andaxtam "I was throwing"
mi?andaxti "You were throwing"
mi?andaxt "She/he was throwing"
mi?andaxtim "We were throwing"
mi?andaxtid "You were throwing"
mi?andaxtand "They were throwing"
N.Laki
maw.rd.m
maw.rd.t
maw.rd.
maw.rdmon
maw.rdton
maw.rdon
FARSI/ENGLISH EQUIVALENT
mi?avardam "I was bringing"
mi?avardi "You were bringing"
mi?avard "She/he was bringing"
mi?avardim "We were bringing"
mi?avardid "You were bringing"
mi?avardand "They were bringing"

[jjmuneer]

Dimilí is closely related to Hewramí (Hawramani, Ewramani), a relationship indicative of a time when a single form of Pahlawâni was spoken throughout much of Kurdistan, when after the late classical period, Kurdistan was homogenized through massive internal migrations. At that time the domain of the Pahlawâni language was uninterrupted across Kurdistan. The main bodies of Dimilí- and Hewramí-speaking Kurds are now at the extreme opposite ends of Kurdistan.

[hevalo27]

What I am saying is Laki is under the Gorani language category

no it isnt, i thought like you but it isnt.
with feyli i meaned laki, only for you i used feyli

[jjmuneer]

What I am saying is Laki is under the Gorani language category

no it isnt, i thought like you but it isnt.
with feyli i meaned laki, only for you i used feyli

What do you mean it isn't? I just showed you sources that state it is. I'm a Laki speaker and how can you tell me? You completely ignore everything else I said, and just single out one thing I said.

i thought like you but it isnt.

It is quite simple Laki is a pahlawani language like Hewrami, except some Feyli tribes' dialects have been corrupted. Is that so hard to accept?

[hevalo27]

i give up

[jjmuneer]

:lol: i give up

You think I'm wrong, but yet you haven't been to South-east Kurdistan to understand what I mean. I've heard most Kurdish dialects, except Badini and Zazaki I think. Since in the UK there are Northern Kurds, Eastern Kurds etc.. The thing I've noticed is even some Zangana/Khaluri(kirmanshanis) faylis speak really corrupted laki, I wouldn't even call it Laki. It is like Sorani, and even so some tribes and people within their clans don't identify as Fayli. Actually I know most Kirmanshanis who probably feel closer kinship to Soranis and Mahabidis than Faylis. Not really under ethnic or tribal lines, just linguistics, because the Persainization process in Kirmanshan meant alot of people in the urban areas lost their tribal names and that old structure.

[unitedkurdistan]

na na hevale heja, you misunderstand, let me explain. the linguists who say feyli is southkurdish, they simultaneously classifie hewrami and zazaki as non-kurdish. the mistake is that the word "kurd" was not the own name of them. persians and arabs used the word kurd as kollective name for iranic tribes with same and similar culture, manners who mixxed and lived together (ethnic kurds). if the linguistics speaks about kurdish, it mean in reality kurmanci and use it as synonymous, because they dont know it better. kurds himself never used in the past the word kurdish to describe any language, even today a kurmanc kurd says i am kurmanc and my language is kurmanci.

Fayli is nothing like Sorani espeically Kurmjani, there are some similarities but that is in all Kurdish dialects. Fayli(Ilami) which is under the Laki catergory is much more similar to Hewrami. You don't even understand laki yourself, neither could any other Sorani when I posted a we feyli video. Most scholars agree faylis(Pahlis) are the original descendants of the Parthians. We even have ancient town called Pahla in our region and many people in our tribe have old Parthian names. Well generally many Kurds in the region have old Parthian names, even the Soranis more North.

Are you sure about that? You know the video you posted about "We Feyli Speaking about Imam Mahdi" I understood alot of it and so did Kak Talsor. Fayli isn't as isolated from the other kurdish dialects as you may think . I do not consider Hawramis to be "Phali Kurds", I consider them to be kurds who speak a kurdish dialect that is very close to zazaki. They live in a area called Hawraman. I find no reason to merge any kurdish dialect or language at all, just ruins the beauty of kurdish language. What is most important is what the hawrami speakers think about it. So for me everything is good so there is no need for change anything except one thing and that is that we have to protect hawrami dialect in Kurdistan from vanishing.

[kurd-sthanam]

mubarak do you understand zazaki or hewrami? no. i bet nothing. so why do you write soranis cant understand these we feyli programs (even if they do)? even i understand a little.
please translate this hawrami song for us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq65eMmXt68&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

when you didnt heard zazaki here, translate this please: http://www.youtube.com/v/m3CZZ26UPnk please translate the conversation from 1:45

this is feyli spoken in ankara: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4aiLzvY8qo

You post "sources", but you contradict yourself with what you post as source:

2. Background
Most researches on Laki dialect are on the basis of ethnological and archaeological grounds, among which the classification of Laki within the Kurdish language can be notified. In this regard and in representing the status of Laki the following triple categorization of Kurdish language has been stated by Tafaroji Yeganeh (2006), for instance, who classifies Laki as a Kermanshahi dialect, as represented below. His classification includes: 1) The Northern Kurmanji: including Bayzidi, Hakari, Ashity, Boutani and Badiani dialects; 2) The Southern Kurmanji: including the dialects of Makri, Sourani, Senehee (Sannandaji) and Soleymanieh; 3) The Kermanshahi: including Kalhori, Laki and Poshtkouhi dialects. Similarly, Yarkhazadi (1379) has asserted the following categorization which considers Laki as a Kermanshahi-Lori dialect. In his categories he considers: 1) Northern Kurdish (Kurmanji), 2) Southern kurdish (Soudani), 3) Gurani-Zazaee, and 4) Kermanshahi-Lori (which includes Kermanshahi, Lori, Phili, Laki and Bakhtiary dialects.

and please dont say you speak that language you posted.

Laki compared to sorani and hewrami:
hwardmon - xwardman - wardman
hwardton - xwardtan - wardtan
hwardon - xwardyan - wardshan

[hevalo27]

If Hewrami isn't southern Kurdish aswell then what does this say?

Other major dialects of Souther Kurdish Dialects group, besides Bajelaní, are Kelhirí, Guraní, Nankilí, Kendúley, Senjabí, Zengene, Kakayí (or Dargazini), and Kirmashaní. Today, there are roughly 1.5 mil'lion Southern Kurdish Dialects speakers in Kurdistan.

you misunderstand, if we in the western say gorani/gurani than we mean the kurdish hawrami. gurani we say in kurdistan to a southerndialect of the so called kurdish branch

look here, http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/159

[jjmuneer]

mubarak do you understand zazaki or hewrami? no. i bet nothing. so why do you write soranis cant understand these we feyli programs (even if they do)? even i understand a little.
please translate this hawrami song for us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq65eMmXt68&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

when you didnt heard zazaki here, translate this please: http://www.youtube.com/v/m3CZZ26UPnk please translate the conversation from 1:45

this is feyli spoken in ankara: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4aiLzvY8qo

You post "sources", but you contradict yourself with what you post as source:

2. Background
Most researches on Laki dialect are on the basis of ethnological and archaeological grounds, among which the classification of Laki within the Kurdish language can be notified. In this regard and in representing the status of Laki the following triple categorization of Kurdish language has been stated by Tafaroji Yeganeh (2006), for instance, who classifies Laki as a Kermanshahi dialect, as represented below. His classification includes: 1) The Northern Kurmanji: including Bayzidi, Hakari, Ashity, Boutani and Badiani dialects; 2) The Southern Kurmanji: including the dialects of Makri, Sourani, Senehee (Sannandaji) and Soleymanieh; 3) The Kermanshahi: including Kalhori, Laki and Poshtkouhi dialects. Similarly, Yarkhazadi (1379) has asserted the following categorization which considers Laki as a Kermanshahi-Lori dialect. In his categories he considers: 1) Northern Kurdish (Kurmanji), 2) Southern kurdish (Soudani), 3) Gurani-Zazaee, and 4) Kermanshahi-Lori (which includes Kermanshahi, Lori, Phili, Laki and Bakhtiary dialects.

and please dont say you speak that language you posted.

Laki compared to sorani and hewrami:
hwardmon - xwardman - wardman
hwardton - xwardtan - wardtan
hwardon - xwardyan - wardshan

I do not contridict myself, Laki is clearly in its seperate grouping.
By the way showing one word doesn't mean anything lol. I never say Feyli was isolate language, but its much closer to Hewrami.
Just give me a text or a video in Hewrami, I can translate most of it for you. Anyway I only showed that source for the beginning part. As Kirmanshahi and Fayli is not the same thing, Kirmanshahi is more similar to Sorani as I've stated before. I myself even have a hard time understanding Kirmanshahi, because A) Their accent B)They use different words.

I don't know why you want to connect our language to Sorani, we are own group and it should be said Hewrami is probably just an off-shoot of Pahli, except Pahli becamse corrupted. All I know is my tribe don't speak what you think we speak. I mean you can understand some of our words, sure I can understand also some of your words, but you can't understand most of it. I

In regards to Kak Talsor well he probably came in contact with Feylis before, as he stated he could understand is extensively.

[jjmuneer]

na na hevale heja, you misunderstand, let me explain. the linguists who say feyli is southkurdish, they simultaneously classifie hewrami and zazaki as non-kurdish. the mistake is that the word "kurd" was not the own name of them. persians and arabs used the word kurd as kollective name for iranic tribes with same and similar culture, manners who mixxed and lived together (ethnic kurds). if the linguistics speaks about kurdish, it mean in reality kurmanci and use it as synonymous, because they dont know it better. kurds himself never used in the past the word kurdish to describe any language, even today a kurmanc kurd says i am kurmanc and my language is kurmanci.

Fayli is nothing like Sorani espeically Kurmjani, there are some similarities but that is in all Kurdish dialects. Fayli(Ilami) which is under the Laki catergory is much more similar to Hewrami. You don't even understand laki yourself, neither could any other Sorani when I posted a we feyli video. Most scholars agree faylis(Pahlis) are the original descendants of the Parthians. We even have ancient town called Pahla in our region and many people in our tribe have old Parthian names. Well generally many Kurds in the region have old Parthian names, even the Soranis more North.

Are you sure about that? You know the video you posted about "We Feyli Speaking about Imam Mahdi" I understood alot of it and so did Kak Talsor. Fayli isn't as isolated from the other kurdish dialects as you may think . I do not consider Hawramis to be "Phali Kurds", I consider them to be kurds who speak a kurdish dialect that is very close to zazaki. They live in a area called Hawraman. I find no reason to merge any kurdish dialect or language at all, just ruins the beauty of kurdish language. What is most important is what the hawrami speakers think about it. So for me everything is good so there is no need for change anything except one thing and that is that we have to protect hawrami dialect in Kurdistan from vanishing.

Let me clear something up, you understand what the host was saying right? That is because he is a Khanaqini, their dialect and accent in general is Sorani influenced. People are still getting confused bewteen the Pahli clan and the language. You've been to Ilam right? You've heard the dialect is much different and purer compared to Khanaqini's one.
Why don't you consider Hewrami to be Pahlawani? Most of South and central Kurdistan was Pahlawani speaking. The only difference bewteen Feyli and Hewrami is slight deviations and directions the dialects took.

[jjmuneer]

If Hewrami isn't southern Kurdish aswell then what does this say?

Other major dialects of Souther Kurdish Dialects group, besides Bajelaní, are Kelhirí, Guraní, Nankilí, Kendúley, Senjabí, Zengene, Kakayí (or Dargazini), and Kirmashaní. Today, there are roughly 1.5 mil'lion Southern Kurdish Dialects speakers in Kurdistan.

you misunderstand, if we in the western say gorani/gurani than we mean the kurdish hawrami. gurani we say in kurdistan to a southerndialect of the so called kurdish branch

look here, http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/159

I'll requote

Dimilí is closely related to Hewramí (Hawramani, Ewramani), a relationship indicative of a time when a single form of Pahlawâni was spoken throughout much of Kurdistan, when after the late classical period, Kurdistan was homogenized through massive internal migrations. At that time the domain of the Pahlawâni language was uninterrupted across Kurdistan. The main bodies of Dimilí- and Hewramí-speaking Kurds are now at the extreme opposite ends of Kurdistan.

By the way that map is the one I also forgot to show. It basically is bullsh*t frankly. Reason being is there is "kurdi xawarig", a fake invention, but then Laki(fayli) is put in its own catergory. I never however stated Hewrami and Feyli is the same, but I think they should be put both under the same catergory. Though its quite funny, you know who created that diagram? Izady, he also created the other one, so you can't really use it against me.

[kurd-sthanam]

I do not contridict myself, Laki is clearly in its seperate grouping.
By the way showing one word doesn't mean anything lol. I never say Feyli was isolate language, but its much closer to Hewrami.
Just give me a text or a video in Hewrami, I can translate most of it for you. Anyway I only showed that source for the beginning part. As Kirmanshahi and Fayli is not the same thing, Kirmanshahi is more similar to Sorani as I've stated before. I myself even have a hard time understanding Kirmanshahi, because A) Their accent B)They use different words.

I don't know why you want to connect our language to Sorani, we are own group and it should be said Hewrami is probably just an off-shoot of Pahli, except Pahli becamse corrupted. All I know is my tribe don't speak what you think we speak. I mean you can understand some of our words, sure I can understand also some of your words, but you can't understand most of it. I

In regards to Kak Talsor well he probably came in contact with Feylis before, as he stated he could understand is extensively.

i posted this hewrami video why did you not translate it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq65eMmXt68&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

kermanshahi and feyli are subdialects. hewrami is not feyli, hewrami is closer to sorani and zazaki. finish.

[jjmuneer]

I do not contridict myself, Laki is clearly in its seperate grouping.
By the way showing one word doesn't mean anything lol. I never say Feyli was isolate language, but its much closer to Hewrami.
Just give me a text or a video in Hewrami, I can translate most of it for you. Anyway I only showed that source for the beginning part. As Kirmanshahi and Fayli is not the same thing, Kirmanshahi is more similar to Sorani as I've stated before. I myself even have a hard time understanding Kirmanshahi, because A) Their accent B)They use different words.

I don't know why you want to connect our language to Sorani, we are own group and it should be said Hewrami is probably just an off-shoot of Pahli, except Pahli becamse corrupted. All I know is my tribe don't speak what you think we speak. I mean you can understand some of our words, sure I can understand also some of your words, but you can't understand most of it. I

In regards to Kak Talsor well he probably came in contact with Feylis before, as he stated he could understand is extensively.

i posted this hewrami video why did you not translate it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq65eMmXt68&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

kermanshahi and feyli are subdialects. hewrami is not feyli, hewrami is closer to sorani and zazaki. finish.

Firstly you posted a music video, so hardly possible for me to understand it. Trust me if I posted an Ilami halparke you would not understand what the singer is saying. Even for myself I have hard time to heard the lyrics in my own dialect.

Firstly please don't group Kirmanshahi and Feyli the same, ITS NOT. Secondly I never said Hewrami is Feyli, I just stated Laki is closer to Hewrami and that its a Gurani sub-group.

Ok tell me what this Khaluri Feyli is saying, his accent is sorani influenced, if you don't understand him then you will have no chance in understanding my feyli from Ilam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpPsWeEh5-Q

[jjmuneer]

This shows clearly Laki is a gorani sub-group