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Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: partizani » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:10 pm

lef kurdish right kurdish
down kurdish up kurdish, all of them kurdish
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Qamishlo » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:23 pm

Hiii Gray-Worm Turkish :lol: :lol:
i know that you racist turkish have learning disability but I hope this time you learned your lessons from kak Emanoelkurdistani :lol: :lol: :lol:

what happened !!!! ?? :lol: :lol:
Better for you to announce your defeat than posting these pics :lol:
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: matin123 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:04 am

Emanoelkurdistani wrote:
matin123 wrote:@ Kak Emanuel Kurdistani

is cihan an original kurdish word? or cehan in persian? what about "giti" ? i thought giti is the original and cihan or cehan is a loanword from arabic


Yes bro it's original Kurdish. Kurdish "cihan", Persian "cehan", and common "giti" exactly share same roots and are pure Iranian. The root is Avestan "geethe-". Since Old Iranian "th" become "h" in Parthian (Middle Iranian) so we get "geehe-" with "-an" > "gehan" in Middle Iranian (Zoroastrian Pahlavi). From it we get Modern Kurdish "cihan" , "cehan", and (in archaic poetry) "gehan"; while Persian "cehan". The Modern Turkish word "cihan" is exactly a Kurdish loan. 8)

Also in Zoroastrian Pahlavi sometimes the Old Iranian "th" is recorded as "t" and it's really strange, becuz Old Iranian "th" is only turned into Parthian "h" and Common Kurdish "z/s" rather than anything else. Probably it was becuz of that they used to re-read Old Iranian texts of religous. Anyway just from such strange development we got "tir-set" ~ "three-hundred" (along with "se-set" or "hir-set" < from Old Iranian "thri-sete") "shetr" ~ "city" (along with "shehr" < from Old Iranian "xshethre-") and of cours "geti" along with "gehan", both from Old Iranian "geethe-".


zor spas ! mashallah, you are a very knowledgable linguist. and also very kind for taking the time to help people. thank you
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: matin123 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:06 am

partizani wrote:lef kurdish right kurdish
down kurdish up kurdish, all of them kurdish
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please don't post this nonsense on roj bash.
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: matin123 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:13 am

Johny Bravo wrote:Left Kurd, right Pashtun:

Image Image

Left Pashtun, right a younger Kurd:

Image Image

Left Pashtun Singer, Right Kurdish Singer:

Image Image

Left Indo-Arian Superstar Saif Ali Khan, right Kurdish Superstar Zakaria:

Image Image

Left Persian leder, right Kurdish leader:

Image Image

Old kurdish Man:

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Pashtun Man in the middle age:

Image

Left Persian Instrument player, right kurdish singer:
Image Image


it's hard to tell the difference on some of them. but if you try you can tell which one is kurd
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:31 pm

Johny Bravo wrote:Emanoel, i love you, we need more kurds like you.
8)


Ez zi to ra hez kenan bira. Cimane mi ser. :)

For honest there are two ways people get successful: 1.exactly being successful 2. getting stupid competitors!
In this special case, I'm successful becuz I got such stupid enemies-competitors as Gray-Worm Turks. Obviously I owe my success and your apperciation to them! 8) :D :lol:
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:40 pm

matin123 wrote:
Emanoelkurdistani wrote:
matin123 wrote:@ Kak Emanuel Kurdistani

is cihan an original kurdish word? or cehan in persian? what about "giti" ? i thought giti is the original and cihan or cehan is a loanword from arabic


Yes bro it's original Kurdish. Kurdish "cihan", Persian "cehan", and common "giti" exactly share same roots and are pure Iranian. The root is Avestan "geethe-". Since Old Iranian "th" become "h" in Parthian (Middle Iranian) so we get "geehe-" with "-an" > "gehan" in Middle Iranian (Zoroastrian Pahlavi). From it we get Modern Kurdish "cihan" , "cehan", and (in archaic poetry) "gehan"; while Persian "cehan". The Modern Turkish word "cihan" is exactly a Kurdish loan. 8)

Also in Zoroastrian Pahlavi sometimes the Old Iranian "th" is recorded as "t" and it's really strange, becuz Old Iranian "th" is only turned into Parthian "h" and Common Kurdish "z/s" rather than anything else. Probably it was becuz of that they used to re-read Old Iranian texts of religous. Anyway just from such strange development we got "tir-set" ~ "three-hundred" (along with "se-set" or "hir-set" < from Old Iranian "thri-sete") "shetr" ~ "city" (along with "shehr" < from Old Iranian "xshethre-") and of cours "geti" along with "gehan", both from Old Iranian "geethe-".


zor spas ! mashallah, you are a very knowledgable linguist. and also very kind for taking the time to help people. thank you


Her qisey meke birakem (dont mention it). Thanx bro. However I'm not exactly so, a long way forward to become a perfect linguist. But for now, I'm just sure I'm better than all linguists in TDK (Turk Dil Kurumu) who replace Persian, Mongolo-French, non-sensical invented... words with Arabic and Iranian loans and call it "Purifying Turkish Language"! :shock: < Maybe I hide my emotions! God knows they make me happy-somehow that way!! 8) :lol: :lol:
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:55 pm

Qamishlo wrote:Hiii Gray-Worm Turkish :lol: :lol:
i know that you racist turkish have learning disability but I hope this time you learned your lessons from kak Emanoelkurdistani :lol: :lol: :lol:

what happened !!!! ?? :lol: :lol:
Better for you to announce your defeat than posting these pics :lol:


Bira Qamishlo, I should give some good news. Our Oquz Gray-Worm, Partizani/Zportoshki/or whatever!, is not retard that much I initially thought abt him! For example he first stated "Kurds are forced to live wih other nations, always", and just afew minutes after my notice on "we are humankind and are only Kurds forced to live with other nations?!" he took his bullshit back and said something in vice versa like "Turks always lived with other nations, we are humankind"!!! :D ... As you see, plus being Gray-Worm, Illogical, Non-Sensical, Bull-Shit, Boring... and of course Fascist, our Oquz Gray-Worm can be considered "Smart" and "Quick" in taking back his bullshit words! 8) (< Maybe I just hope so! :lol: )

Dont think I'm kidding you guys! I may prove it! I left for 24 hourse and get him the opportunity to find original, pure, non-invented Turkish words for "civilization", "city", "village", "window", "God"... Now I will prove you how much he's "Smart" and "Quick"! Ok dear Oquz Gray-Worm (Boz-Kurt), would you eventually tell my friends what are the Original, Pure, Non-Invented Turkish words for "civilization", "city", "civilize", "window", "world", "village", "villager", "citizen"? :) Just emphsizing this point that if you wouldn't tell them, they would think you are shy!! :o :lol: :lol: :lol: (So I mean that way they would not think that Turkish really got no pure words for "window", "world", "city", "citizen", "God"... Trust me!! :lol: :lol: )
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: partizani » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:44 am

where is kurdish ''culture'' (all of them kurmanchi sorani gorani...) on this map ?


Image


where is kurdish ''civilization'' on this map ?
Image

where is kurdish ''history'' on this map ?
Image



ok ok...
I don't want to see anything about last 1000 years
anybody tell me, where is kurdish modern culture???? only 90 years ago ?? not 1000 years
1918
Image

where is kurdish ''architecture''

if you have a ''civilization'' where are your historical buildings , cities ???

I can not see anything
you ?
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Qamishlo » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:04 pm

Emanoelkurdistani wrote: would you eventually tell my friends what are the Original, Pure, Non-Invented Turkish words for "civilization", "city", "civilize", "window", "world", "village", "villager", "citizen"? :) Just emphsizing this point that if you wouldn't tell them, they would think you are shy!![/b] :o :lol: :lol: :lol: (So I mean that way they would not think that Turkish really got no pure words for "window", "world", "city", "citizen", "God"... Trust me!! :lol: :lol: )

That's really what I thought :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Mamma Mia » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:32 am

Loan Words?

Kirmanci : yak dū sē čwār pēnj šaš hawt hašt nō da

Farsi : yak do se čahār panj šeš haft hašt noh dah

Zaza (Dimli) : žew di hīrē čihaār pānž šeš hewt hešt new des

Gorani : yak d'ue y'are ču'ār panj šIš hawt hašt no da


So, Can we say actually, Kirmanci is almost same as Persian, and Zaza and Gorani are not as close to Kirmanci as Persian does? Hence, Kirmanci is Persian. What do you call it Kurdish then?

First, have your numbers in your own languages (whatever it is), then blame Turkish

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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: matin123 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:56 am

Mamma Mia wrote:Loan Words?

Kirmanci : yak dū sē čwār pēnj šaš hawt hašt nō da

Farsi : yak do se čahār panj šeš haft hašt noh dah

Zaza (Dimli) : žew di hīrē čihaār pānž šeš hewt hešt new des

Gorani : yak d'ue y'are ču'ār panj šIš hawt hašt no da


So, Can we say actually, Kirmanci is almost same as Persian, and Zaza and Gorani are not as close to Kirmanci as Persian does? Hence, Kirmanci is Persian. What do you call it Kurdish then?

First, have your numbers in your own languages (whatever it is), then blame Turkish


in hindi, the numbers are also similar to persian and kurdish. but how do you know they're loaned from persian and not the other way around? besides, kurdish has much less loanwords than both persian and turkish.
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Mamma Mia » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:03 pm

Persian is older and richer language than so called Kurdish. I am saying so called Kurdish not to insult Kurds. There are languages called as Kirmanji, Sorani, Gorani, Zaza. No native speakers of these languages call those languages as "Kurdish" per se, nor they can. Within the region it is not Kurdish, but Kirmanji, Sorani etc. It's only in western media, they call it Kurdish. Mostly, westerner media is not knowledgeable about these linguistic different but motivated by region politics.

And for loan wording;

Words in Kirmanji, and Sorani are not loaned from Persian, they were separated from Persian. Since the differences are much more visible between Kirmanji, Sorani, than Gorani and Persian, then we can assume, those languages were separated from Persian in different time periods. Gorani is distinct from Kurmanji and Sorani, and is closer to Talishi, Zazaki, and Gilaki. Therefore it cannot be said Gorani is Kurdish, or SOrani is Kurdish, or Kirmanji. There is no Kurdish, there are Kirmanji, Sorani, Gorani, and Zaza. If you say, yes there is a Kurdish language, then you have to state, which is it? Nowadays Northern Iraq Kurdish Administration picked Sorani as Kurdish. That is even accepable. But then If you call Sorani is Kurdish, then you cannot call Kirmanci is Kurdish too. because there are not mutually intelligible, meaning not understood by each other, they are just different languages.

Last say, Since there are four languages over there, and none of them are mutually intelligible with each other, you cannot name it as a "language", period. Then German and English is same language. It is a Joke? Although, Norwegian and Danish mutually intelligible they are different language, same as Czech and Slovak.

Source: J N Postgate, Languages of Iraq, ancient and modern, British School of Archaeology in Iraq, [Iraq] : British School of Archaeology in Iraq, 2007, p.138.

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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: matin123 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:56 pm

Mamma Mia wrote:Persian is older and richer language than so called Kurdish. I am saying so called Kurdish not to insult Kurds. There are languages called as Kirmanji, Sorani, Gorani, Zaza. No native speakers of these languages call those languages as "Kurdish" per se, nor they can. Within the region it is not Kurdish, but Kirmanji, Sorani etc. It's only in western media, they call it Kurdish. Mostly, westerner media is not knowledgeable about these linguistic different but motivated by region politics.

And for loan wording;

Words in Kirmanji, and Sorani are not loaned from Persian, they were separated from Persian. Since the differences are much more visible between Kirmanji, Sorani, than Gorani and Persian, then we can assume, those languages were separated from Persian in different time periods. Gorani is distinct from Kurmanji and Sorani, and is closer to Talishi, Zazaki, and Gilaki. Therefore it cannot be said Gorani is Kurdish, or SOrani is Kurdish, or Kirmanji. There is no Kurdish, there are Kirmanji, Sorani, Gorani, and Zaza. If you say, yes there is a Kurdish language, then you have to state, which is it? Nowadays Northern Iraq Kurdish Administration picked Sorani as Kurdish. That is even accepable. But then If you call Sorani is Kurdish, then you cannot call Kirmanci is Kurdish too. because there are not mutually intelligible, meaning not understood by each other, they are just different languages.

Last say, Since there are four languages over there, and none of them are mutually intelligible with each other, you cannot name it as a "language", period. Then German and English is same language. It is a Joke? Although, Norwegian and Danish mutually intelligible they are different language, same as Czech and Slovak.

Source: J N Postgate, Languages of Iraq, ancient and modern, British School of Archaeology in Iraq, [Iraq] : British School of Archaeology in Iraq, 2007, p.138.


kirmanci and sorani are both kurdish. i don't know too much about gorani and zaza but most speakers speak/understand either sorani or kirmanci as well. and where did you get the idea that only western media calls our language kurdish? our language is kurdi. sorani and kirmanci are dialects of kurdish. in persian language, there is also various dialects. dari, tajiki, etc. they are all farsi. and persians, afghans, and tajiks can all communicate with eachother. maybe some minor differences but they are the same language. so kirmanci and sorani are mutually intelligible.
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Re: Loanwords in Turkish - New Infos

PostAuthor: Mamma Mia » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:11 pm

Sorani and Kirmanci are not mutually intelligible. Here i will show you some little examples of the difference in sytax between Kirmanci and Sorani.
(s) = sorani
(k) = kirmanci

1. example:
Mâlaka i Dara sûtim. (s)
Min mal a Dara shevûtand. (k)

sûtim = min shevutand; malaka i Dara = mal a dara;

eglish-german:
I burned Dara’s house down.
Ich brannte Dara´s Haus nieder.

the same positions of the words.


2. example:
Na-m-dît-ît. (s)
min tu nedî. (k)

tu = -ît; min = -m-; dî = dît; ne = Na;

word position is too much different.
english-german:
I have not see you.
Ich habe dich nicht gesehen.

i have = ich habe; not see = nicht gesehen; dich = you;

almost the same postion of the words.


3. example: (ich sende diese Bücher zu ihnen)
min am kitawanayan bo danêrim. (s)
ez van pirtûkan ji wan re dishînim. (k)

min = ez; am kitawana = van pirtûkan; -yan bo = ji wan re; danêrim = dishînim;

english-german:
Ich sende ihnen die Bücher.
I send them the books.

exactly the same order of the words.


4.example:
Parakay le girtim û pey witim ... (s)
Wî para ji min stand û min re got ... (k)

"Wî" = "-y" (he), Paraka = para (money), le girtim = ji min stand (took from me), pey witim = min re got (said to me).

english-german:
er hat das geld von mir genommen und sagte mir.
he has taken the money from me and said to me.

he has = er hat; taken = genommen; the money from me = das geld von mir; und sagte mir = and said to me;

also here almost the same word order.

source: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~iranian/Sorani/index.html

They are different languages, and they do not understand each other. When Sorani speaking people comes to Turkey to communicate with Kirmanci speaking people, they have to use either Turkish or some other language to understand each other.

Eger nizam berdeg legu mihavi, basat zanayan nayete wederi.

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