Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Serd]

@ Emmanuelle

First of all, let me make something very clear: as always, what you write
in this forum is 100 % bullshit and your last message wasn’t an exception.
Look Emmanuelle, if you think we, Zazas, are stupid, don’t think so;
because we are not. One must be absolutely stupid and moron to believe
the crab that you wrote in this forum. Zazas don’t believe those kinds of
crab, except the four Dolton brothers, Masilmanij, Munzur Cem, Haydar
Isik, and Sehildan Kurij.

Realistically, we Zazas are 100% sure that Zazaki is not a dialect of any
language. It is a macro language with its dialects. Even among Zazaki
dialects, there are a lot of differences. But okay, feel free to label Zazaki
a dialect of Kurdi, and call it Kirmancki. I also label Kurdi as a dialect of
Zazaki. So we are fifty-fifty.

Why don’t you accept Persian identity? The same relationship between
Zazas and Kurds exist between Persians and Kurds. I have encountered
Persians who even called Kurds as one of the Persian tribes. When it
comes to you, you reject vehemently what they want you to be. How
come you suggest that Zazas do the same thing that you refuse? May be
you should accept the Persian tribe identity first before suggesting Zazas
to be something else other than what we are.

Neither Shabaki nor Hewrami is a Kurdish dialect. I don’t have to prove
you anything simply because they are not. What you write above doesn’t
prove anything, and there is nothing that you can prove either. If you
think those languages are dialects of Kir-di, feel free to think so. I don’t
care about your dreams.

Honestly, I did not read the last half of your message. Until the half part,
I understood that the rest of your story will be the same crab as is the
first half.

Let me give you a suggestion. Instead of dealing with us, go develop
projects to stop assimilation of millions of Kurds in Turkey or go convince
real Kurds who denounce their Kurdish identity. I am sure this will help
you more to advance your identity.

For Zazas, the real danger is Turkification. I don’t really give any damn to
you guys because I don’t have to. As I wrote above, you can only write
about your wild dreams here, nothing else.

Why don’t you use the word Zaza? Is it too scary too write it. You remind
me Turks who don’t use the word Kurd. What a similarity!

As always, bicewe Zazana, bicewe Zazaki

[Johny Bravo]

tset

[Johny Bravo]

which concerns zazaistan; there is zaza a people and zazaistan with 10 inhabitants, who is: Mehmet Bingoel, Zilfi Selcan, Koyo Berz, Asmeno Bêwayir, Seygi Cengiz, Huseyin Cimen, Hawar Tornegenci, Zazaistanic, Faruk Iremet and Cafer.

.

you have forgot XIDO and ercan (your darling).

[Vladimir]

For Zazas, the real danger is Turkification. I don’t really give any damn to
you guys because I don’t have to. As I wrote above, you can only write
about your wild dreams here, nothing else.

I think it's a danger for both Zazaki and Kirmanci speakers. All non-Turkish speakers have the same goal in Turkey. Isn't it? Democracy and a recognition of minority languages.

[K4L_2007]

no way man... what would be the next.. soranistan ?? bahdinistan ?? ezdistan ??
as long we are all kurds we should have one goal and that is KURDISTAN.



best wishes

True

[Serd]

no way man... what would be the next.. soranistan ?? bahdinistan ?? ezdistan ??
as long we are all kurds we should have one goal and that is KURDISTAN.



best wishes

True

For your dream maps on the internet, don't worry; you can keep Zazana. But
for real life, if the borders are redrawn in our region, Zazana will be its own
country. That way, we will guarantee the future of the Zazaish language,
culture, traditions, and so on.

[Barış]

Isn't Zazaîstan North West Kurdistan?

[xoser]

There is no northern Kurdistan. Please update your brain!

How is that? What, sounds familar? I bet it does.

[Sirwan]

Isn't Zazaîstan North West Kurdistan?

Actually there has been never a political/geographical/ethnical/demographical entity named Zazaistan. Zazaistan is a neologism used by some kids uninformant of history to refer to mixed Kurdish and Dimili areas of northwestern parts of Kurdistan. The real Zazaistan is called Mazandaran and is located in northern/northeastern Iran.

[Johny Bravo]

@sirwan

The supporter of the caspia these (and this these founded by armanian and russian orientalists to crate a bigger armenian with zaza areas) have the argument, that zazaki had conserve the old iranian v-louds and old iranian grammer featueres as in many caspian languages, they are went in persian and kurdish. if we compare kurdish and persian, we can see, that kurdish and persian have made the same new iranian shifts and have same grammer features. what we can learn? kurds are immigrants of persia (this these is supporting by turks, assyrians and armanians)

The reason why the caspian these is so famouse because ZAZAISTS as Asmêno Bêwayir theyself did divulg this everywhere, in every site!

this these with caspian was confute at the genelogy test from the marx placnk institute, zazas are native people in anatolia. zazas are not caspian, zazas are only pure northwest iranian, and zazaki have only more old iranian features. the supportes of caspian sea these are poeple they want to describe zazas as immigrants, that the "big armanian" plan was effetive. and many linguists think also so because of the old iranian v-louds und old iranian grammer features as the old iranian "-ent" in the presense system, "emanuel kurdisatani" can ratify this.

if you look to avesta and old persian, you can see that zaza is more northwestiranian as kurdish, kurdish have 50% southwestiranian featueres like words at "dil" (old persian) which is in zazaki "zerrî" (from old northwestiranian avesta), at words at "deh" (old persian) what is in old norwestiranian "desa" (in zazaki: des), at words at "gotin" what cames from old persian gaub- which is in zaza vatene (presense: vac-), which comes from northwestiranian parthian vaxten and old northwestiranian vach- (in kurdish is bêj- in prense the northwestiranian variant, it comes from vaj-). you can see this in "bilind" what is southwestiranian and which is in zazaki "berz "which comes from old norwestiranian berezo- (avesta) (in sorani: berz). you can see this in "sal" which is also southwestiranic which is in zaza "serre" and in avesta sered-.

[Barış]

There is no northern Kurdistan. Please update your brain!

How is that? What, sounds familar? I bet it does.

Welcome back!

[Barış]

Thanks for info Johny Bravo.

[Sirwan]

@sirwan

The supporter of the caspia these (and this these founded by armanian and russian orientalists to crate a bigger armenian with zaza areas) have the argument, that zazaki had conserve the old iranian v-louds and old iranian grammer featueres as in many caspian languages, they are went in persian and kurdish. if we compare kurdish and persian, we can see, that kurdish and persian have made the same new iranian shifts and have same grammer features. what we can learn? kurds are immigrants of persia (this these is supporting by turks, assyrians and armanians)

The reason why the caspian these is so famouse because ZAZAISTS as Asmêno Bêwayir theyself did divulg this everywhere, in every site!

this these with caspian was confute at the genelogy test from the marx placnk institute, zazas are native people in anatolia. zazas are not caspian, zazas are only pure northwest iranian, and zazaki have only more old iranian features. the supportes of caspian sea these are poeple they want to describe zazas as immigrants, that the "big armanian" plan was effetive. and many linguists think also so because of the old iranian v-louds und old iranian grammer features as the old iranian "-ent" in the presense system, "emanuel kurdisatani" can ratify this.

if you look to avesta and old persian, you can see that zaza is more northwestiranian as kurdish, kurdish have 50% southwestiranian featueres like words at "dil" (old persian) which is in zazaki "zerrî" (from old northwestiranian avesta), at words at "deh" (old persian) what is in old norwestiranian "desa" (in zazaki: des), at words at "gotin" what cames from old persian gaub- which is in zaza vatene (presense: vac-), which comes from northwestiranian parthian vaxten and old northwestiranian vach- (in kurdish is bêj- in prense the northwestiranian variant, it comes from vaj-). you can see this in "bilind" what is southwestiranian and which is in zazaki "berz "which comes from old norwestiranian berezo- (avesta) (in sorani: berz). you can see this in "sal" which is also southwestiranic which is in zaza "serre" and in avesta sered-.

First of all Zaza is not accurate and it is Dimili (Deylami), Zaza is a pejorative name used by neighbours of invading/refugee Deylami tribes. The Deylamis about 12th century were suffering from turkic Mongolic penetrations from northeastern Persia, and some tribes of them migrated westwards to take refuge in Kurdish mountains.
Morever the Alevi religion of Dimilis also is another strong prove for their area of origins.
And if you mention linguistics, there is no need to falsify simple realities: Dimilis DO HAVE their counterpart linguistic cousins in northern Persia: The Mazandaranis, the decendants of former conservative Deylamis.

and your dimili words does not make sense since Sorani has more robust words in these cases, like wutin for your vatene, etc.
Yet if you think that Persians were from southwestern Iran, then you are wrong. as Persians originally lived in what is today known as heartland of Kurdistan (west of lake Urmia) and also Herodotus mentions that Persians were descendant of Mitnnis!!!
Therefore, I hope the linguistic link between Kurdish and Persian to be as strong as possible; Also do not forget that Persian is not name of an ethnic group. it simply means setlled/city-dweller Iranians. ALL the modern Persians you see actually are descendants of non-persian Iranians who setlled in desert cities of central Iran and adopted Persian/farsi the court language of kings of Persia. that's all. so there is nothing wrong with Kurdish being close to Persian. incidentally it is in the interest of Kurds.

[Johny Bravo]

@Sirwan

The Kurds have occupted the assyrian and armanian regions, thank of the ottomans the kurds could did dilvulg theyself in anatolia. kurds made massaker of the assyrians in diyarbakir, kurds kill the armanians, therefore today in anatolia are so many kurds! and the alevi kurds have zaza orign, they was assimilated of the kurdish aghas.

kurds are a persian tribe, kurdish comes from the middle persian langauge and collected with mixing with hawrams northwestiranian elements. wutin in sorani is a loanword of hawrami, you dont believe? ask kurdologs as baran ruciyar! the real sorani is : gutin, berz is also a loanword of hawrami. why do all kurmanc use gotin? because kurds was always southwestiranian in all history. why do all kurds use southwestiranian words as "se" for "three" and "deh" for ten? this southwest and northwest splitting was over 2500 years! the orign of the kurds is southwestiran. they came in the ottoman empire to anatolia and killed the assyrians and hawrams in northern iraq. kurds were only persian soldiers, nothing else.

kurds are immigrantes of southwestiran, and are since the 15. century in anatolia.

[Sirwan]

Lol, and now that Johny lost the discussion and came short of arguments, began racist non-scientific attacks.

@Sirwan

The Kurds have occupted the assyrian and armanian regions,

Assyrian lands?
Assyrians were a semitic people centered around Mosul. That area is still predominantly Semitic inhabited, exept for Yazidi Kurdish areas around Sinjar (ancient Singara.)
Armenian lands?
Kurds immigrated to eastern Anatolia in second millenium BC, while Armenians came to the area around 7th century BC, and these means that Kurds were in eastern Anatolia at least one thousands years before Armenians (Hai tribes) who were pushed southwards from caucaus by invading cimmerian (Iranic tribes) from north. So again your argument of Kurdish occupation is nonsense.

thank of the ottomans the kurds could did dilvulg theyself in anatolia.

read previous sentence!

kurds made massaker of the assyrians in diyarbakir, kurds kill the armanians, therefore today in anatolia are so many kurds!

Kurds although due to their sufi believes never were interested in attacking other nations but at the same time were good at defending themselves. So christian minorities who thaut that by help of English or Russians can bit the Kurds were severly defeated by Kurdish majority there.

and the alevi kurds have zaza orign, they was assimilated of the kurdish aghas.

Nothing wrong with dimilis being assimilated into their kinsmen- the Kurdish ethnic pool. I appreciate it.

kurds are a persian tribe,

Yes, fortunately; But a very archaic persian tribe.

kurdish comes from the middle persian langauge and collected with mixing with hawrams northwestiranian elements.

Not really!

Middle persian is so close to modern Persian, and if you compare Middle Persian, modern Persian and Kurdish you will find so different words in Kurdish which are not found in Middle Persian (nor in Hawrami- Dimili).
I can clarify it more for you with examples from middle persian if you wish, (later).

wutin in sorani is a loanword of hawrami, you dont believe? ask kurdologs as baran ruciyar! the real sorani is : gutin,
berz is also a loanword of hawrami. why do all kurmanc use gotin?

because kurds was always southwestiranian in all history. why do all kurds use southwestiranian words as "se" for "three" and "deh" for ten? this southwest and northwest splitting was over 2500 years! the orign of the kurds is southwestiran. they came in the ottoman empire to anatolia and killed the assyrians and hawrams in northern iraq.

But even we accept that Kurdish has taken from Hawrami it does not change any thing, since hawramis' name for themselves is Gorani and the same scientists who say that Dimilis are from Deylams, say also that Goranis are from Gilan! and came from northern Iran at approximately same time as Dimilis!!! Though today virtually All Hawramis consider themselves Kurds and are considered as such by other Kurds.

Morever Kurds did not killed the hawramis hahahaha (Merhaba to your knowledge of history! hahaha) they just mixed with them and forged a new colloquial form of Kurdish later known as southern Kurmanji.

And one more 'no' to your self-fabricated theories. southwestern and northwestern are not actual geographical expressions. They are used only in linguistics since 19th/twentieth century. Because those languages happened to be concentrated in sothwestern and northwestern Persia.

kurds were only persian soldiers, nothing else.

But also persian tribes! did you forgot it?!

kurds are immigrantes of southwestiran, and are since the 15. century in anatolia.

read the first sentence once again!



And my last advise to you is educate yourself!