Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Serd]

It's generally accepted (Also by scientists) that the Sheikh Said Pirani rebellion was a Kurdish tribal/nationalist/religious uprising. There were also Kurds that fought together with Saddam against KDP/PUK, it doesn't say anything.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/kurdish/htdocs/his/said.html

Unfortunetely, there is nothing generally accepted on the Sheikh Said rebellion. Everybody is (including some scientist) giving different accounts. And, not just Zazas and Kurds claim this rebellion, but also some religious organizations claim this uprising. The same was said for 1938 Dersim rebellion. But, when Seyyid Riza's daughter said that his father did not fight for Kurdish nationalism, everything went boom.

[Piling]

But, her story is all fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream. She just made that story up.

Then make a walk in Dersim and in Southern Kurdistan also. Did you ever go in Kurdistan in fact ?

And perhaps there are zazyi posts on your forum, but I did not seem then, they are very hard to find in this 90% Turkish posts ! In any case, pro Zaza or not, you seem badly assimilated.

[Vladimir]

It's generally accepted (Also by scientists) that the Sheikh Said Pirani rebellion was a Kurdish tribal/nationalist/religious uprising. There were also Kurds that fought together with Saddam against KDP/PUK, it doesn't say anything.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/kurdish/htdocs/his/said.html

Unfortunetely, there is nothing generally accepted on the Sheikh Said rebellion. Everybody is (including some scientist) giving different accounts. And, not just Zazas and Kurds claim this rebellion, but also some religious organizations claim this uprising. The same was said for 1938 Dersim rebellion. But, when Seyyid Riza's daughter said that his father did not fight for Kurdish nationalism, everything went boom.

Source .

This article is based on historical facts. Turkish newspapers described it as Kurdish at that time, renowned Turkologists described it as Kurdish... It's a fact Shex Said had contact with Xoybun. So there is a general acceptance on the nature of the Sheyk Said revolt. It was a tribal/religious[Islam]/Kurdish rebellion.

[Serd]

But, her story is all fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream. She just made that story up.

Then make a walk in Dersim and in Southern Kurdistan also. Did you ever go in Kurdistan in fact ?

And perhaps there are zazyi posts on your forum, but I did not seem then, they are very hard to find in this 90% Turkish posts ! In any case, pro Zaza or not, you seem badly assimilated.

God! What does going to Kurdistan has to do with your fake story.

Don’t worry; I have been in Diyarbakir, Mardin, Silopi, Nusaybin... I had a dinner even with Osman Baydemir--just before his nomination for Diyarbakir Municipality--and some other Kurdish politicians. I have a better understanding what is going around me.

Mrs. Frencyi citizen, Dersim forum is not my forum; in fact, I don’t even write there. I just read some comments to better understand what people think. Why you think we are badly assimilated? Here is a Kurdish forum which is very popular ( http://f24.parsimony.net/forum58919/ ). It is 100% Turkish. Beside that, Kurds of Turkey, especially children hardly speaks Kurdish. They are not badly assimilated; but we are badly assimilated. The same thing is true with Zaza revolts; Kurds are welcomed to exploit them, but Zazas--even they are Zaza uprisings--cannot talk about their own history.

In the archives of the forum, there are lots of Zazaki writings. But, anyway, Frencyi citizens like you don’t understand Zazaki. Oh! I forget you understand it. Even though we Zazas sometimes have hard times to understand each other because of regional variants, you understand it because you have magical powers!

[Serd]

@ Vladimir

Source? Yes sure, here is a source that gives you a different interpretation of those events.

Conclusion
Our brief survey of the major 'Kurdish nationalist' uprisings this century is now concluded. In each case, despite the clearly Kàzàlba§§ identity of the insurgents - with the sole exception of the already Kurmancî Kurdish insurgents in the A@rà Da@ uprising - the rebels felt compelled to take on a Kurdish identity, when faced with defeat - if not extermination. Immediate events intruded repeatedly, to impose a different stamp on an ethnic movement than might otherwise be expected, had reality been less life-threatening. Faced with the terrible efficiency of Ankara's regular forces, both Kàzàlba§§ and Zaza insurgents were forced to take drastic political steps, in order to broaden their appeal.

In other words, Kàzàlba§§ and Zaza rebels felt obliged to brand themselves as Kurdish, in order to secure both broader support within Anatolia, not to mention from the great powers. Then, as now, the Kàzàlba§§ and Zaza identities were little known outside of eastern Anatolia. It can plausibly be surmised that the Kurdish identity was the only one both known and accorded some weight in eastern Anatolia by the great powers, who had agreed after World War I, most significantly, that the Kurds had a right to their own homeland.

Source: Paul, 1995

Anyway, science doesn't claim to be the absolute truth. Science always changes, and even in physical sciences there are sometimes no single answers. Here, we are talking about social sciences, which are many times very subjective. Many social scientist usually give different accounts on the same events. So, there cannot be any scientific fact or anything close to it in this issue.

Forget Turkish descriptions. Anything comes from the eastern Turkey is Kurdish for them. They cannot think about complicated issues.

[Vladimir]

So nothing about Shex Said's sister. I know Paul White, the friend of Seyfi Cengiz.

[Serd]

So nothing about Shex Said's sister. I know Paul White, the friend of Seyfi Cengiz.

I don’t know whether they are friend or not, but I am sure Paul White doesn’t fake stories like someone in this from.

It seems he has good credentials:

Paul White is an Executive member of the Centre for the Study of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies at Deakin University, where he is also part of the Editorial Board of the Journal of Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies. He has served as a committee member of the Australasian Middle East Studies Association. He is currently completing his PhD in Political Science (Middle East Politics). His PhD thesis concerns the political development of Kurdish nationalism in Turkey. He visited a Kurdish guerilla training camp in Lebanon in 1992, as part of field work for this thesis. He has taught various Middle East Politics courses at Deakin University and the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, and also tutored in the same field at the University of Melbourne.

Note: This description was written around 1995.

[King Diyako]

With all respact Pula White ,I believe someday he is communist next day associate himself to Kurdish movement ,next he with Turks..so personally I think where wind stronger..He heading toward. Researcher such as Paul,his reasoning rooted from peoples surrounds him. Rather than professional academic search as such to spent years with different Kurdish community in Kurdistan.

Research Is not just in theoretical perspective, by saving ourselves blaming other with bully referencing such as according to X or Y person believe this or that, but more expermintical . I see a lot poor research about Kurds and Kurdistan, which is incomplete and efficient which mostly based on incomplete ,mislead article as well as false historical facts.

[King Diyako]

This false thinking theory of destruction of great Kurdish race and nation as such that Zaza or Ezdi –Kurds, that they are not Kurds, this is not just made by Turks Arabs Iranian, but also this tiny pointed state of Armenia is pioneer of such ideology. To fool some brained washed Kurds to be enemy and killers of its own (Self-Destruction)

Please read this amazing article from Tosinê REŞÎD , it is in Kurdish.

http://www.netkurd.com/gotar.asp?yazid=58&id=1067

[HeminKurdistani]

This false thinking theory of destruction of great Kurdish race and nation as such that Zaza or Ezdi –Kurds, that they are not Kurds, this is not just made by Turks Arabs Iranian, but also this tiny pointed state of Armenia is pioneer of such ideology. To fool some brained washed Kurds to be enemy and killers of its own (Self-Destruction)

Please read this amazing article from Tosinê REŞÎD , it is in Kurdish.

http://www.netkurd.com/gotar.asp?yazid=58&id=1067

Nice article.

[Serd]

@ King Diyako

Unfortunately, I couldn’t understand anything in that Kurdish Article, except some common words like siyaset, Kurd, Ermeni, Tirkiya, and so on. Anyway, your saying that people are dividing Kurdish nation and race (I didn’t know there was a Kurdish race.) is again similar to Turkish propagandas. They usually say foreigners are provoking Kurds and other ethnicities to divide Turkish nation. We don’t have any relations with Armenia, Iran, and Turkey and no one help us, tough it would be good if they were--in my opinion. Again, we and you never become one, so it is impossible to divide something that has never become one.

For Paul White, I am sure you would praise him if he had written something according to your thinking. The same is true for Vladimir; he wouldn’t call him a friend of Seyfi Cengiz. Today, Dersim and Kockiri rebellions get rid of Kurdish epithets on themselves. For Sheikh said rebellion, I was grown in a town that was in the center of the rebellion, we had photos of Sheikh Said and others leaders of the rebellion in our home. But, nobody told me that they died for Kurdistan.

Nation states are formed on a single language. Even Kurmancis and Soranis are members of Kurdish macro language, they have problems with each other. Zazaki, which is a completely separate Iranian language and another macro language with its different dialects, cannot fit your nation state.

[Piling]

But, anyway, Frencyi citizens like you don’t understand Zazaki. Oh! I forget you understand it. Even though we Zazas sometimes have hard times to understand each other because of regional variants, you understand it because you have magical powers!

Well, let's write something in zazayi there (if you can) and I will see if I understand or not.

[Serd]

But, anyway, Frencyi citizens like you don’t understand Zazaki. Oh! I forget you understand it. Even though we Zazas sometimes have hard times to understand each other because of regional variants, you understand it because you have magical powers!

Well, let's write something in zazayi there (if you can) and I will see if I understand or not.

Himmm, if I can! Why should I write you something in Zazaki since you are consistently and knowingly misspelling the word “Zazaki,” and writing fictional stories? But, maybe I should give you a chance and test your magical powers. However, you—as a Frencyi citizen—should assure me that you won’t get any help from outside, such as asking someone, looking to a dictionary, and so on.

Here is my one of favorite childhood anecdote. Now I am writing the first half of it. Let’s see whether your magical powers can translate this half of a nice Zazaki story.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wêxtek yo pir yone laj ya bıv. Merdumê dew, şêw divunıd yen yo ca vun fılunkes ina kê bewonkes ina kê, qal ken. Laj pirız her şêw şın diwon. Diwonıd qal qıjun dew kên u vun laj fılunkes ina kê bewonkes ina kê eğtırako... Emma ço qal laj pir nikên. Çend ruej bentıra şın, ço qal laj pir hunce nıkên.

Laj pir her şêw wêxt şın ki pira vun, "maye insun per qal şêwir dew kên, ço qal mı nikên." Pir tere ecız bena hin vuna, "la hulem çıkek hol bık wa yiniz qal tu bıkêr."

Laj a ruej muşekkette niken holi ken. Şêw bon diwunıd camêat hunce qal yi nikên. Laj camêat wahir verdon. Şin ki, bermên, kerên, wajyên. Pir tera pêrsena lalawo se bo? Laj vun, "mı ewro eğtıra gurê hol kê, diwunıd hunce ço kal mı nıkêrd." Pir kerêna ser vuna, "la ez sekêr hulem." Pir ğuere ecız bo u lajra vuna, "şo gı xu bik bıker yênı."

[Serd]

Hey Frencyi citizen, what happened? Where is my translation?

[zurderer]

It is funny kurds are so asimilated. Even their nationalist are like turkish ones.(They just change turk word with kurd.)

Let people decide who are they.