Serd wrote:I see some people are mixing apples and bananas. Kurmanci and Sorani are not very different from each other. Educated Kurmanci and Sorani speakers can understand each others dialects. However, Zazaki and Gorani are separate languages, and there is absolutely no way that a Kurmanci or Sorani speaker can understand a Zazaki speaker, or vice versa.
From time to time, I hear people are talking about imposing a so-called "Standard Kurdish" language (a mixture of Sorani/Kurmanci) on others. Well actually in 2002, I heard PKK will press for extermination of Zazaki language. I don't know if they still plan to do that. Anyway, their power is not enough to do that.
By the way, I found a nice link about "Genealogical tree of Iranian languages" from Frankfurt University. Take a look:
http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/di ... anstam.htm
And what is your source that the PKK wants to destroy Zazaki? Is this why they invite Zazaki artists on Roj TV? Why Jamo and Serd don't react to my earlier post? Too much to handle?
About that standard language thing.. that's the reason why the Zaza movement was founded. Because most people like you saw themselves as Kurds in the past..
Gorani influenced Sorani grammar. And in regions where Zaza's and Kurmanci speaking people live close together, they can understand eachother.
zurderer wrote:and, I repeat, A turk can understand uygur.with difficulty but still understand. Also comparing an Uygur turk with turkey turk is ridiculous. Look at the distance, look at the lost of connection at last 1000 years.
You won't understand Ughur.. nor other Turkish dialects in Central-Asia. Someone who speaks Kurmanci can understand Zaza too with difficulty... Depends on where he is coming from. It's now clear that you are not pro-Kurdish, but anti.
I doubt you know much "Zaza's". Or you must live outside Turkey. The so-called Turkish politician Sadet Karabulut sees herself as a Kurd (but also Alevi/Turk).. while she is from a Zaza region.
Source:
http://www.stichtingcema.nl/ (Zaza/Kurdish)
About the ethnic classification: This is not about "the truth". It's about political developments. Like Leezenberg says:
[quote]The main thesis of this paper may be summarized as follows: the Gorani like elements in Central Kurdish can be accounted for without any appeal to dramatic events such as a massive language shift among entire groups of Gorani speakers. The available historical evidence, and the kind of borrowings involved (primarily lexical and morphological), fit in well with an account in terms of prestige borrowing over a extended period of time.
Next, we must be careful not to confuse linguistic reconstructions with postulated
ethnohistorical developments. There is no historical evidence for anything like a homogeneous Gorani stratum in the population overrun by a clearly identifiable influx of ’real’ Kurds, nor does the linguistic evidence give any reason to think so. However, migrations (some of which are attested) of individuals, of tribes, and of worldly and spiritual leaders have been taking place throughout the past centuries, and undoubtedly various cases of language shift did occur. The picture is far from clear, but it suggests that the phenomenon of language contact in dealing with Kurdish dialects deserves more attention than it has received thus far.
Third, it seems useful to distinguish an ethnic sense of the expression ’Kurdish dialect’ from the purely linguistic sense. What is a Kurdish dialect in the former sense is a matter of
ethnic affiliation that may well change over time; what is a Kurdish dialect in the second sense is a matter of linguistic classification and reconstruction.
Thus, Zaza and Gorani are (at present) Kurdish dialects in the former sense but not in the latter.
The predominant ethnic affiliation of individual members of any of these dialect groups, or even the ethnic identity of part or whole of those groups themselves
develops in a dialectic interplay with social and political events, and is thus inherently instable. We have seen some cases (the Karake
The suppression of ethnic cultures and minority religious groups in attempting to forge a modern nation were not unique to Turkey but occurred in very similar ways in its European neighbours - Bruinessen.
. Well, you are so biased. I can see it clearly in your posts here in this forum. So, there is no need to have a real discussion with you.
