Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Rizgaraso]

But the fact is that if pople do not attack their neighbours like Arabs, Turks and others, they would remain anonymous forever like Eskimos if not vanished.
What is today is known as Iraq, 14 centuries ago was predomiantly Iranic. Even Sassanid capital was located there. Tyspun, or as Arabs knew it Madain (aka. cities); Even for a century it was the largest city of the world! But Arabs changed it drastically and made it An Arab region. from Basra (also an Iranic name) to Baghdad (again an Iranic name). That's true that there was sad incidents for the victims, but s a whole, the lands became Arabic and no one ever thinks that Arabs should give up those lands.

Do you deny this?

You keep on using the term Iranic - what do you think that term means?

Well all those lands were Arabized - they lost most of their culture. Just look at Egypt - what of their past civilization remains in their modern culture? Nothing. So they can't "give" up those lands because those lands are Arab by culture.

Very nice, the the same can be done by other peoples!! Attack their lands and make them ''like yourselves'' and make them ''part of us'':wink:

That's what Kurds (and many other anonymous peoples) never did.


Iranic means Iranian but helps to avoid confusion with modern state of Iran.

Notice: Germanic, Slavic, Semetic, Turkic, and etc...

Nor should they - when things like that happen it's so tragic. That's why I don't like or associate myself with chauvaunist Persians who try to assimilate Kurds and other Iranians.

So who, in your opinion, is "Iranic"?

I know that you are not chauvunuist, but as you know Chauvunist persians have done crasy things against Kurds for centuries if not thousands of years.

Iranic are peoples whose tongues are classified under Iranic branch of Indo-Iranians.

[Parsi]

But the fact is that if pople do not attack their neighbours like Arabs, Turks and others, they would remain anonymous forever like Eskimos if not vanished.
What is today is known as Iraq, 14 centuries ago was predomiantly Iranic. Even Sassanid capital was located there. Tyspun, or as Arabs knew it Madain (aka. cities); Even for a century it was the largest city of the world! But Arabs changed it drastically and made it An Arab region. from Basra (also an Iranic name) to Baghdad (again an Iranic name). That's true that there was sad incidents for the victims, but s a whole, the lands became Arabic and no one ever thinks that Arabs should give up those lands.

Do you deny this?

You keep on using the term Iranic - what do you think that term means?

Well all those lands were Arabized - they lost most of their culture. Just look at Egypt - what of their past civilization remains in their modern culture? Nothing. So they can't "give" up those lands because those lands are Arab by culture.

Very nice, the the same can be done by other peoples!! Attack their lands and make them ''like yourselves'' and make them ''part of us'':wink:

That's what Kurds (and many other anonymous peoples) never did.


Iranic means Iranian but helps to avoid confusion with modern state of Iran.

Notice: Germanic, Slavic, Semetic, Turkic, and etc...

Nor should they - when things like that happen it's so tragic. That's why I don't like or associate myself with chauvaunist Persians who try to assimilate Kurds and other Iranians.

So who, in your opinion, is "Iranic"?

I know that you are not chauvunuist, but as you know Chauvunist persians have done crasy things against Kurds for centuries if not thousands of years.

Iranic are peoples whose tongues are classified under Iranic branch of Indo-Iranians.

Ok - so you are speaking on linguistic terms. In that case not much Iranic lands remain - even in today's Iran Azarbaijan and Hamadan are no longer "Iranic" and yet their culture has stayed as a part of Iranian culture...Khwarazm is completely "turkish" now as well.

And yes chauvaunistic Persians have done many injustices against Kurds and others in the past - but that is in the past when one man ruled an Empire. What the Middle East, especially Iran, needs is federalism.

[Jamo]

But the fact is that if pople do not attack their neighbours like Arabs, Turks and others, they would remain anonymous forever like Eskimos if not vanished.
What is today is known as Iraq, 14 centuries ago was predomiantly Iranic. Even Sassanid capital was located there. Tyspun, or as Arabs knew it Madain (aka. cities); Even for a century it was the largest city of the world! But Arabs changed it drastically and made it An Arab region. from Basra (also an Iranic name) to Baghdad (again an Iranic name). That's true that there was sad incidents for the victims, but s a whole, the lands became Arabic and no one ever thinks that Arabs should give up those lands.

Do you deny this?

You keep on using the term Iranic - what do you think that term means?

Well all those lands were Arabized - they lost most of their culture. Just look at Egypt - what of their past civilization remains in their modern culture? Nothing. So they can't "give" up those lands because those lands are Arab by culture.

Very nice, the the same can be done by other peoples!! Attack their lands and make them ''like yourselves'' and make them ''part of us'':wink:

That's what Kurds (and many other anonymous peoples) never did.


Iranic means Iranian but helps to avoid confusion with modern state of Iran.

Notice: Germanic, Slavic, Semetic, Turkic, and etc...

Nor should they - when things like that happen it's so tragic. That's why I don't like or associate myself with chauvaunist Persians who try to assimilate Kurds and other Iranians.

So who, in your opinion, is "Iranic"?

I know that you are not chauvunuist, but as you know Chauvunist persians have done crasy things against Kurds for centuries if not thousands of years.

Iranic are peoples whose tongues are classified under Iranic branch of Indo-Iranians.

Ok - so you are speaking on linguistic terms. In that case not much Iranic lands remain - even in today's Iran Azarbaijan and Hamadan are no longer "Iranic" and yet their culture has stayed as a part of Iranian culture...Khwarazm is completely "turkish" now as well.

And yes chauvaunistic Persians have done many injustices against Kurds and others in the past - but that is in the past when one man ruled an Empire. What the Middle East, especially Iran, needs is federalism.

I agree with you Parsi. I think it would be good if there would be a big country or union where all Iranic language speaking people would live together. There should be states and autonomies in it such as Kurdistan, Persia, Zazaistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan... But all of these states or autonomies should have their own laws and their particular culture should be protected.

What does Iran mean? Land of Arians?

[Rizgaraso]

But the fact is that if pople do not attack their neighbours like Arabs, Turks and others, they would remain anonymous forever like Eskimos if not vanished.
What is today is known as Iraq, 14 centuries ago was predomiantly Iranic. Even Sassanid capital was located there. Tyspun, or as Arabs knew it Madain (aka. cities); Even for a century it was the largest city of the world! But Arabs changed it drastically and made it An Arab region. from Basra (also an Iranic name) to Baghdad (again an Iranic name). That's true that there was sad incidents for the victims, but s a whole, the lands became Arabic and no one ever thinks that Arabs should give up those lands.

Do you deny this?

You keep on using the term Iranic - what do you think that term means?

Well all those lands were Arabized - they lost most of their culture. Just look at Egypt - what of their past civilization remains in their modern culture? Nothing. So they can't "give" up those lands because those lands are Arab by culture.

Very nice, the the same can be done by other peoples!! Attack their lands and make them ''like yourselves'' and make them ''part of us'':wink:

That's what Kurds (and many other anonymous peoples) never did.


Iranic means Iranian but helps to avoid confusion with modern state of Iran.

Notice: Germanic, Slavic, Semetic, Turkic, and etc...

Nor should they - when things like that happen it's so tragic. That's why I don't like or associate myself with chauvaunist Persians who try to assimilate Kurds and other Iranians.

So who, in your opinion, is "Iranic"?

I know that you are not chauvunuist, but as you know Chauvunist persians have done crasy things against Kurds for centuries if not thousands of years.

Iranic are peoples whose tongues are classified under Iranic branch of Indo-Iranians.

Ok - so you are speaking on linguistic terms. In that case not much Iranic lands remain - even in today's Iran Azarbaijan and Hamadan are no longer "Iranic" and yet their culture has stayed as a part of Iranian culture...Khwarazm is completely "turkish" now as well.

And yes chauvaunistic Persians have done many injustices against Kurds and others in the past - but that is in the past when one man ruled an Empire. What the Middle East, especially Iran, needs is federalism.

Of course all terms such as Iranic, Germanic, Slavic , etcare linguistic terms not political ones. And when I say Iranic lands I simply mean linguistic domination of Iranic languages not political or anything alse.

[Rizgaraso]

But the fact is that if pople do not attack their neighbours like Arabs, Turks and others, they would remain anonymous forever like Eskimos if not vanished.
What is today is known as Iraq, 14 centuries ago was predomiantly Iranic. Even Sassanid capital was located there. Tyspun, or as Arabs knew it Madain (aka. cities); Even for a century it was the largest city of the world! But Arabs changed it drastically and made it An Arab region. from Basra (also an Iranic name) to Baghdad (again an Iranic name). That's true that there was sad incidents for the victims, but s a whole, the lands became Arabic and no one ever thinks that Arabs should give up those lands.

Do you deny this?

You keep on using the term Iranic - what do you think that term means?

Well all those lands were Arabized - they lost most of their culture. Just look at Egypt - what of their past civilization remains in their modern culture? Nothing. So they can't "give" up those lands because those lands are Arab by culture.

Very nice, the the same can be done by other peoples!! Attack their lands and make them ''like yourselves'' and make them ''part of us'':wink:

That's what Kurds (and many other anonymous peoples) never did.


Iranic means Iranian but helps to avoid confusion with modern state of Iran.

Notice: Germanic, Slavic, Semetic, Turkic, and etc...

Nor should they - when things like that happen it's so tragic. That's why I don't like or associate myself with chauvaunist Persians who try to assimilate Kurds and other Iranians.

So who, in your opinion, is "Iranic"?

I know that you are not chauvunuist, but as you know Chauvunist persians have done crasy things against Kurds for centuries if not thousands of years.

Iranic are peoples whose tongues are classified under Iranic branch of Indo-Iranians.

Ok - so you are speaking on linguistic terms. In that case not much Iranic lands remain - even in today's Iran Azarbaijan and Hamadan are no longer "Iranic" and yet their culture has stayed as a part of Iranian culture...Khwarazm is completely "turkish" now as well.

And yes chauvaunistic Persians have done many injustices against Kurds and others in the past - but that is in the past when one man ruled an Empire. What the Middle East, especially Iran, needs is federalism.

I agree with you Parsi. I think it would be good if there would be a big country or union where all Iranic language speaking people would live together. There should be states and autonomies in it such as Kurdistan, Persia, Zazaistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan... But all of these states or autonomies should have their own laws and their particular culture should be protected.

What does Iran mean? Land of Arians?

Are u '''really''' a Zaza?

[Vladimir]

But Zazas are passive,have no unity and vision i saw,as Diri said they only think on being a part of Turkey or Kurdistan,if it is not they should announce their own sound,i hope a way for them but they are assimilated but not by Kurds

Zazas live in mountainous areas. These mountains helped us to protect ourselves and our culture from others. However, these montains prevented us to follow the outside world. Infact, when natianlism was sweeping all the Middle East, Zazas fell behind without knowing what is happening around them. Now recently this nationalist Zaza movement begining to take its roots. Let me confess, I am very new in this movement like Jamo. However, just give us time because the games has just began.

How did you see yourself earlier before? Kurd, Alevi or Turk? My best friend is from Dersim and she and her family sees themselves as Kurds. Zaza-nationalism is invented in the 1980's. And Kurds are not oppressing the "Zaza culture". Since you can hear Zazaki music on Roj TV, you can hear Sivan Perwer singing in Zaza, etc. Recently there was a conference about Hewrami and Zazaki in South-Kurdistan. This was supported by the Kurdish government.

In Holland Mahabad Qilorî and Nêçîrvan Qilorî are busy with writing a Zaza-Dutch wordbook.

The Kurdish linguist Malmısanıj wrote the "Ferhengekê Dimilki-Tirki". (http://www.ferheng.org/zazaki.html ?? ).

In the past Kurmanci speakers called themselves Kurmanc or after their tribe/region. The same counts for other Kurdish dialects.. In the past "Zaza's" didn't call themselves only Zaza's or Kurds:

Zaza nationalisten zijn het er allemaal over eens, dat de Zaza’s één taal spreken. Volgens Martin van Bruinessen[31] noemen Zaza sprekers uit Dersim (Tunceli) zichzelf echter Krmanc[32] en hun taal Kmanck. Zij noemen hun Zaza-sprekende soennitische “broeders”, die wonen in het district rond de Murat rivier, echter Zaza (en de taal ook Zaza), ondanks dat het identiek is aan de taal in Tunceli. Een andere term Dmli wordt weer gebruikt voor de inwoners van de Siverek regio en hier en daar in Tunceli. Zülfü Selcan bevestigt deze benamingen[33]. Hij noemt zelfs nog een andere benaming het Gini[34]. Dit zou gesproken worden in het gebied Sarz (Kayseri), Sivaz (Zara, Divriği) en Malatya. - Radio Zaza

Zaza speakers from Dersim call themselves Kirmanc. They call their Zaza speaking brothers around the Murat river Zaza (And their language Zaza). Dimili is used for the region Siverek en sometimes also in Dersim. Next to this is the name "gini". This is spoken in the area around Kayseri, Sivas and Malatya. And Dimili doesn't come from "Daylam", it comes from a big tribe named in the Sharafname.

And the name "Zaza", is also used by a big Kurmanci speaking tribe.

It's your own decision how you see yourself. But I see Zaza-speakers as Kurds and I do not have any problem with their own dialect. The Kurdish identity is very weak and this is because they don't have their own state. The Zaza and Alevi movement also received support from the Turkish government in the past. Pamukcu is the one who invented the word "Zazaistan".

You can read about that in the articles of M. Bruinessen. Also the Shabak, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Azeri's, etc in Iran/Azeribaijan have a weak identity. In fact nationalism is based on myths, legends and stories. Doesn't matter if this is Zaza, Turkish or Dutch nationalism. You think a Turk from Turkey understands an Ugyur Turk from China?

And Sheyk Said didn't fight for Zazaistan. He worked together with the Azadi movement, who were Kurdish nationalist. He wanted a Kurdish Sunni state. That's why Alevi Kurds or Alevi Zaza's didn't joined him in the rebellion. (Agha, Sheich und Staat, Bruinessen).

And I wonder where Rizgaraso gets his "stories" from.

[Piling]

As I could see in dersim, the main "trouble" between Kurds and Zazas is not ethnic but religious, there are still problems between Alevis and Muslims. Concerning the language, the pro-Zazaistan are not numerous, quite influenced by TIKKO perhaps.

[cazyun]

i voted for no actually i think my oppinion zazzas dont belongs to turkey or kurdish..to give them right would be wrong since the are little ethnicity just like other smaller grups..they shuld accept their lifestyle or go back to iran..

my oppinion only(no offence) mrs jamo i am sorry

[Lovetobewithfriends]

I adore Persians in the way,they are so active and they care nations' right and they are a great statue of civilization,culture and science.So still everybody cares them and listen to them.That is why they have still friends and not crying like "we dont have any allies."

Tell me - who cares about Persians? The West?? They just sit there and watch the IRI treat not only Persians - but all Iranians like crap. They don't care - no one does.

What Allies do they have left? Arabs? Turks? I don't think so...

Yes all Iranian people have accomplished much in the past, including the Persians. Too bad they are a mere memory now...

Persians are Iranic people yes they manage Iran ,they are not whole Iran but Persians are not like their old ages if we compare them with their old ages position,we cant find too much similarity.I think administration of religious leaders,ex-religious management and despot management is changing country's vision,for example some Kurds who tied too much with their religion had some wrong decisions about their nations,Shêx Seîd allied with Turks because of same religion but by the way,Kurds are harmed and lost their national rights even language and went under.And now Ahmedinejad is extreme-islamist and they say Israel should be deleted but i hope there is better ways than deleting eachothers but Persian allowed Jews return to Israel and built their temple.And it is so easy way,not realistic and incomprehensible that saying a country should be delete because of your religion it doesnt matter a lot it just means more fight,it is just a way that saying im blind,christians believed that world's shape is like tray and they lived in middle age until they revolted the bad,blind,despot management system and the falling systems have just "more war and more despot management system,please" politics.I think all extreme ways are wrong and it is clear extreme-religious is bad even it is islam still it is going worse.But a nation or a small people still save their characteristic a bit or much even they are extreme or not and the only province is given by the nations who took our land is in Iran.And of course it is about nations' rising time and falling times too.I know it is not enough and still there is nonsence bans there but even some Persians have trouble with their ex-islamists and despots and they fled from there and when Turkey's prime minister dont meet with Talabani,Ahmedinejad is still meeting with him.Nobody cared much USA's war against Iraq but Russia,China dont want USA to attack Iran i know there is trade deals between them but i dont think nobody will resist too much if USA attack Turkey but Turkey is similar Iran and have lots of things to trade but still couldnt effect the others enough.Shortly,i mean Persian who a part of Iran lost highly power and their civilization level for long time and they have problem inside but still they are better than the others and they are giving much more symbolic rights at least to save our honour

[cazyun]

even usa is afraid attack iran look at all the ethniticies..it would be a new sovjet..but persian thinks they are smartass and controll all the people in future they are about 50% of the countrey.wich is silly how they can rule...
whole northerna iran is real turkish, azer occupied lands ,kurds in west, in east god knows...its a wrong islamic rule i think..they uses excuses throw it..

the name iranic lanugage is invented by them-

if the zazza says they feel more connection to iran then they migrate back..

[Lovetobewithfriends]

This topic is becoming funnier .But you should understand us for example i am hearing this words at first time in my life from you and Jamo

You will hear these words more and more. Even Zazas who called themselves once Kurdish are going to seperate themselves very slowly from Kurds. I know a lot of people who do not support PKK or other Kurdish rebels eventhough they say they are Kurdish.

How far will some Kurds go by denying other cultures in Anatolia. Some of the maps that I see here are very funny. There is no Zazaistan and no Armenia in Turkey but therefore half part of Turkey is Kurdistan and other half is Greece.

Well actually there is no Armenia in Turkey anymore since the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood wiped out the Armenians. I don't say all Kurds killed Armenians but most Kurds were against Armenians

what Armenians story has to do with the fact of Zazas being creaters of kemalism?!!

BTW, Armenians themselves from 7th century BC when immigrated southward to Curdish mountains, where the most cruel enemies of Kurds. they occupied Kurds lands and persecuted them in worst ways.
Although massacres not always are good, but sometimes are needed. If Kurds had followed a policy of harrasing of their neighbours for at least some centuries, now they got much of middle east. but unfortunately they alwasy were passive. look, at Arabs and Turks and others who did crasy crimes against their neighbours. Of course sometimes massacres are needed. That's why today many Kurds think that next year they NEED a good massacre of Iraqi Arabs.

A massacre is needed? You think like fashist Turks who killed the Armenians and like Germans who killed Jews. Turks think the same about Kurds they can not wait to massacre Kurds. Now Turkish Sunnis are supporting the Turkish Alevis and give them important positions in Turkish Army. They are thinking about how to clean the East Part from Kurds.

Do you think it was right when Saddam killed so many Kurds with gasbombs in Halabca? Massacres are needed

Then you should join Turkish army,right?Maybe they can give you Zazaistan after that.Dont tell me about anybody outside of Kurds,they are all same,there is just a nation in Turkey which deserve they are Kurds and Zazas will own with them,turkish propanda wont work on them,you think Diyarbakır people will support them or Dersim people??

This topic is becoming funnier .But you should understand us for example i am hearing this words at first time in my life from you and Jamo

You will hear these words more and more. Even Zazas who called themselves once Kurdish are going to seperate themselves very slowly from Kurds. I know a lot of people who do not support PKK or other Kurdish rebels eventhough they say they are Kurdish.

How far will some Kurds go by denying other cultures in Anatolia. Some of the maps that I see here are very funny. There is no Zazaistan and no Armenia in Turkey but therefore half part of Turkey is Kurdistan and other half is Greece.

Well actually there is no Armenia in Turkey anymore since the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood wiped out the Armenians. I don't say all Kurds killed Armenians but most Kurds were against Armenians

It wont be bad for me hearing this words more .I am a Kurd and im not supporting Pkk because we deserve better more sophisticated solution. .There should be Armenia but i wont support people who call themselves Zaza like you because you talk like Turks and i didnt see any Zazaistan efforts and history i just see Kurdistan efforts but there was Armenia centuries before.Even some Kurds helped Armenians. The Kurds you talk about,obstructed Kurds independence too so what we should do them? and Armenia-Kurdish relationship is going good.

"And During the Armenian Genocide, many bands of Kurds, on the orders of the Young Turk government, helped the Turkish army eliminate ethnic Armenians during their deportation. On April 8 and April 10, 1915, Armenians were accused of revolt and resisting conscription in Cilicia. Soon afterward, the Ottoman government deported the entire population of the city. On April 19, 1915, the Armenians living in Van and near the border with Russia, were accused of collaboration with the Russians and were attacked by the Ottoman Army and Kurdish irregulars [8]. According to J.B. Jackson, the American consul in Aleppo, in August 1916 the governor of Aleppo ordered massacres carried out by bands of Turkish, Circassian and Kurdish ex-convicts, who were freed from prison and assigned for the massacre [9]. It is estimated that between half a million and three-quarters of a million of civilian Armenians were massacred by the Turks and Kurds [10].

Despite participation of some Kurdish elements in the genocide, the majority of Kurds kept their distance from the killings, and in some cases helped Armenian refugees. For instance, Dersim Kurds refused Turkish orders and saved 25,000 Armenian lives. In 1919, there were groups of Armenians who were living among Kurds as refugees "

And it is from Wikipedia,i know they are lieing to us to have an independent country after that they will own our land Here the special words "Kurdish ex-convicts, who were freed from prison." how liars they are.They say Dersim Kurds not Zazas because Zazas are Kurds or so close brothers.Why do you try to show us as barbarians.Maybe some ultra-islamist Kurds joined Turks against genocide(you should use genocide word ).Armenians were under pressure as some like Kurds under pressure now but they shouldnt start to attack they could be totally right if they were not the starters of the fight and now all of the world could recognize genocide.The first kurdish radio started in Armenia and there is a relation between Pkk and Asala.Anyways,i dont like terror even they are right,it is my personal idea,i like solution without gun but if you as a Zaza are talking Kurds in the way,i guess you like struggle outside of my Zaza friends.There can be a Zazaistan if you want why dont you start to imagine it all day and night you should have a plan too I said especially some holy places like Agri; should be given to Armenia and i have no passions on Jews' holy land,we must have a great viewpoint,i know Turks will say for me Armenian or Jewish because i said that.But im talking about being logical and talking on historical roots.We lived together with Armenians and nobody genocide the other.If we did that there wont be any Kurd or Armenian in this land but we have ability to live together in peace somes dont have that You cant see an attack to culture between Kurds and Armenia or dirty plans but maybe we fought before but not in barbarian way so i guess we still should like eachothers


And i totaly believe that Zazas dont think like you,they choose being on Kurds' side or being Turks' side like some loser Kurds.And i guess you are grey wolf as Rizgaraso said but Rizgaraso giving material to you to talk you can answer but i try to not give you material to talk and i will be honest As Rizgaraso said we are one of the best races in ME which dont attack nations' rights.If we are we could do when it is Saladin's age or anytime we had chance.We suggest everyone should live in peace in stable countries because Kurds are bored living under liar,egoist countries' rule.And Zazas will have their country in Kurdistan i guess because they are Zaza but i heard from you they are different race from Kurds and they want their seperate country.I didnt think Erzincan and Sivas is Kurdish because it is under control of Turkey and the cities are full of mixed races.

WOW you called me a grey wolf and I should join the Turkish Army too? Well first of all with Alevis I meant the Turkish Alevis not the Zaza Alevis from Dersim. You say you didn't think that Erzincan and Sivas were Kurdish because it is under control of Turkey? Well Turkey controls Diyarbakir, Van and other cities too. In these cities there are also mixed races not only Kurds. There are Kurds, Zazas, Turkmens and still some Armenians who luckily survived the genocide. What shall we call these cities Kurdish, Turkish or Zaza?

The Arians such as Persians, Kurds and Zazas have nothing to do than fighting eachother instead of fighting the Arabs or Turks. If you guys won't accept our Zaza identity how can you expect from us to accept Kurdish identity? I'm telling you I am not a Turk, gray wolf, Turkmen or pro Turkish We are Zazas If you guys don't accept this than it's your problem with which you have to deal with.

First of all,i dont have any problems with Zazas.If they really want to have a country or want their national rights seperate from Kurds or with them it is good.And why am i talking about Erzurum,Sivas.Because yes there is lots of Kurds or Zaza(still Zaza Kurds for me,pls forgive me) but when i say they are mixed with the others,i mean there is lots of Turkish Alevis,mother Kurd or Zaza-father Turk people or mother Turk-father Kurd people,even i met people who have any idea is he/she Kurd or Turk. maybe they are hiding their identity i dont know.But down of there,even Arabs and Turkmens seperate village to village at least street to street completely and Kurds dominated there.Of course,it is not pure where is pure in the world,north pole??And varity of people and cultures is a good thing if it doesnt harm politics and Kurds say we have a land,autonomy when it is Ottoman and before for long it is not a new thing,Turks are anger down of Diyarbakır,not the cities we talked.They are unhappy because they couldnt assimilate and seperate people there.And handling there with big army groups.But even the thing my friends and Barzani,Talabani,etc.... is trying to do,is not a easy thing and the fight continues for 80 years against Turkey and others.So how do you think you will do that?With which people and how many people?It is good that you are not gray wolf and you call Zaza yourself and there is no reason to fight eachother.

[Lovetobewithfriends]

This topic is becoming funnier .But you should understand us for example i am hearing this words at first time in my life from you and Jamo

You will hear these words more and more. Even Zazas who called themselves once Kurdish are going to seperate themselves very slowly from Kurds. I know a lot of people who do not support PKK or other Kurdish rebels eventhough they say they are Kurdish.

How far will some Kurds go by denying other cultures in Anatolia. Some of the maps that I see here are very funny. There is no Zazaistan and no Armenia in Turkey but therefore half part of Turkey is Kurdistan and other half is Greece.

Well actually there is no Armenia in Turkey anymore since the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood wiped out the Armenians. I don't say all Kurds killed Armenians but most Kurds were against Armenians

what Armenians story has to do with the fact of Zazas being creaters of kemalism?!!

BTW, Armenians themselves from 7th century BC when immigrated southward to Curdish mountains, where the most cruel enemies of Kurds. they occupied Kurds lands and persecuted them in worst ways.
Although massacres not always are good, but sometimes are needed. If Kurds had followed a policy of harrasing of their neighbours for at least some centuries, now they got much of middle east. but unfortunately they alwasy were passive. look, at Arabs and Turks and others who did crasy crimes against their neighbours. Of course sometimes massacres are needed. That's why today many Kurds think that next year they NEED a good massacre of Iraqi Arabs.

A massacre is needed? You think like fashist Turks who killed the Armenians and like Germans who killed Jews. Turks think the same about Kurds they can not wait to massacre Kurds. Now Turkish Sunnis are supporting the Turkish Alevis and give them important positions in Turkish Army. They are thinking about how to clean the East Part from Kurds.

Do you think it was right when Saddam killed so many Kurds with gasbombs in Halabca? Massacres are needed

Then you should join Turkish army,right?Maybe they can give you Zazaistan after that.Dont tell me about anybody outside of Kurds,they are all same,there is just a nation in Turkey which deserve they are Kurds and Zazas will own with them,turkish propanda wont work on them,you think Diyarbakır people will support them or Dersim people??

This topic is becoming funnier .But you should understand us for example i am hearing this words at first time in my life from you and Jamo

You will hear these words more and more. Even Zazas who called themselves once Kurdish are going to seperate themselves very slowly from Kurds. I know a lot of people who do not support PKK or other Kurdish rebels eventhough they say they are Kurdish.

How far will some Kurds go by denying other cultures in Anatolia. Some of the maps that I see here are very funny. There is no Zazaistan and no Armenia in Turkey but therefore half part of Turkey is Kurdistan and other half is Greece.

Well actually there is no Armenia in Turkey anymore since the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood wiped out the Armenians. I don't say all Kurds killed Armenians but most Kurds were against Armenians

It wont be bad for me hearing this words more .I am a Kurd and im not supporting Pkk because we deserve better more sophisticated solution. .There should be Armenia but i wont support people who call themselves Zaza like you because you talk like Turks and i didnt see any Zazaistan efforts and history i just see Kurdistan efforts but there was Armenia centuries before.Even some Kurds helped Armenians. The Kurds you talk about,obstructed Kurds independence too so what we should do them? and Armenia-Kurdish relationship is going good.

"And During the Armenian Genocide, many bands of Kurds, on the orders of the Young Turk government, helped the Turkish army eliminate ethnic Armenians during their deportation. On April 8 and April 10, 1915, Armenians were accused of revolt and resisting conscription in Cilicia. Soon afterward, the Ottoman government deported the entire population of the city. On April 19, 1915, the Armenians living in Van and near the border with Russia, were accused of collaboration with the Russians and were attacked by the Ottoman Army and Kurdish irregulars [8]. According to J.B. Jackson, the American consul in Aleppo, in August 1916 the governor of Aleppo ordered massacres carried out by bands of Turkish, Circassian and Kurdish ex-convicts, who were freed from prison and assigned for the massacre [9]. It is estimated that between half a million and three-quarters of a million of civilian Armenians were massacred by the Turks and Kurds [10].

Despite participation of some Kurdish elements in the genocide, the majority of Kurds kept their distance from the killings, and in some cases helped Armenian refugees. For instance, Dersim Kurds refused Turkish orders and saved 25,000 Armenian lives. In 1919, there were groups of Armenians who were living among Kurds as refugees "

And it is from Wikipedia,i know they are lieing to us to have an independent country after that they will own our land Here the special words "Kurdish ex-convicts, who were freed from prison." how liars they are.They say Dersim Kurds not Zazas because Zazas are Kurds or so close brothers.Why do you try to show us as barbarians.Maybe some ultra-islamist Kurds joined Turks against genocide(you should use genocide word ).Armenians were under pressure as some like Kurds under pressure now but they shouldnt start to attack they could be totally right if they were not the starters of the fight and now all of the world could recognize genocide.The first kurdish radio started in Armenia and there is a relation between Pkk and Asala.Anyways,i dont like terror even they are right,it is my personal idea,i like solution without gun but if you as a Zaza are talking Kurds in the way,i guess you like struggle outside of my Zaza friends.There can be a Zazaistan if you want why dont you start to imagine it all day and night you should have a plan too I said especially some holy places like Agri; should be given to Armenia and i have no passions on Jews' holy land,we must have a great viewpoint,i know Turks will say for me Armenian or Jewish because i said that.But im talking about being logical and talking on historical roots.We lived together with Armenians and nobody genocide the other.If we did that there wont be any Kurd or Armenian in this land but we have ability to live together in peace somes dont have that You cant see an attack to culture between Kurds and Armenia or dirty plans but maybe we fought before but not in barbarian way so i guess we still should like eachothers


And i totaly believe that Zazas dont think like you,they choose being on Kurds' side or being Turks' side like some loser Kurds.And i guess you are grey wolf as Rizgaraso said but Rizgaraso giving material to you to talk you can answer but i try to not give you material to talk and i will be honest As Rizgaraso said we are one of the best races in ME which dont attack nations' rights.If we are we could do when it is Saladin's age or anytime we had chance.We suggest everyone should live in peace in stable countries because Kurds are bored living under liar,egoist countries' rule.And Zazas will have their country in Kurdistan i guess because they are Zaza but i heard from you they are different race from Kurds and they want their seperate country.I didnt think Erzincan and Sivas is Kurdish because it is under control of Turkey and the cities are full of mixed races.

WOW you called me a grey wolf and I should join the Turkish Army too? Well first of all with Alevis I meant the Turkish Alevis not the Zaza Alevis from Dersim. You say you didn't think that Erzincan and Sivas were Kurdish because it is under control of Turkey? Well Turkey controls Diyarbakir, Van and other cities too. In these cities there are also mixed races not only Kurds. There are Kurds, Zazas, Turkmens and still some Armenians who luckily survived the genocide. What shall we call these cities Kurdish, Turkish or Zaza?

The Arians such as Persians, Kurds and Zazas have nothing to do than fighting eachother instead of fighting the Arabs or Turks. If you guys won't accept our Zaza identity how can you expect from us to accept Kurdish identity? I'm telling you I am not a Turk, gray wolf, Turkmen or pro Turkish We are Zazas If you guys don't accept this than it's your problem with which you have to deal with.

First of all,i dont have any problems with Zazas.If they really want to have a country or want their national rights seperate from Kurds or with them it is good.And why am i talking about Erzurum,Sivas.Because yes there is lots of Kurds or Zaza(still Zaza Kurds for me,pls forgive me) but when i say they are mixed with the others,i mean there is lots of Turkish Alevis,mother Kurd or Zaza-father Turk people or mother Turk-father Kurd people,even i met people who have any idea is he/she Kurd or Turk. maybe they are hiding their identity i dont know.But down of there,even Arabs and Turkmens seperate village to village at least street to street completely and Kurds dominated there.Of course,it is not pure where is pure in the world,north pole??And varity of people and cultures is a good thing if it doesnt harm politics and Kurds say we had a land,autonomy when it is Ottoman and before for long it is not a new thing,Turks are anger down of Diyarbakır,not the cities we talked.They are unhappy because they couldnt assimilate and seperate people there.And handling there with big army groups.But even the thing my friends and Barzani,Talabani,etc.... is trying to do,is not a easy thing and the fight continues for 80 years against Turkey and others.So how do you think you will do that?With which people and how many people?It is good that you are not gray wolf and you call Zaza yourself and there is no reason to fight eachother.

[Lovetobewithfriends]

I guess Zaza as Aryans as anyrace they want to call themselves,should be with Kurds,there is no prejudice to them and they can call themselves anything and can their own country in the future it doesnt matter,what race they call themselves,does it bros and sisters? i am not Nazi racist,i am nationalist cause i love my people but even i cant be Nazi racist because it is unrealist and i dont think our nation is the purest and the strongest nation in the world which have to rule world,every people have their goods and the important thing is being a model,civilized people... so hope to have your rights.But you should be with us as much as you can do if you dont you can be the next one for gray wolfs as you see what gray wolfs did.

[cazyun]

strongest in world/ hehe way over the linee

the zazzas has no opptions, but still they shul be considered as a small ethnicity in turkey no mayor problems or issues they can live their life as long as they dont threat the peace

[Lovetobewithfriends]

the zazzas has no opptions, but still they shul be considered as a small ethnicity in turkey no mayor problems or issues they can live their life as long as they dont threat the peace

I dont think so i think there was lots of tribes in Anatolia what happened to them?And Greeks are gone,Armenians are gone,Greeks of Turkish nationality are gone,they are trying to Kurds are gone or assimilated(even lots of them Sunnis and lots of them helped in Independence War) after that i guess they can find a new one to assimilate or wipe out but they cant when there is a Kurdish topic because more enemies will make it sooo hard... .But why not when the Kurds are gone.I cant support Kurds' fighting with terror actually it is bad for our people and it makes them poor block them to develop but maybe the best way is fighting in the graywolfs' way against them without losing their viewpoint.And i should add Zazas are generally Alevis and they are not Turk is it not enough to assimilate?(This is not my view point )