Apoist Apologizes for the Armenian Genocide

[Anthea]

Concerning your question. Democratic Autonomy means a real independent Kurdistan in the Hands of the Kurdish Nation.

Words words words and just words. But nothing concrete and precise. probably because PKK members themselves do not understand Öcalan's thoughts. And who could do it ? There is no real thoughts. Just empty words.

Sadly there is a certain amount of truth in that statement. Since Ocalan has been in prison he seems to have changed a great deal and nobody understands exactly what is going on. But I would have been more surprised were he not to have changed due to his treatment in Turkish hands.

I am far more disturbed by the behaviour of certain Turk loving members of the BDP, especially when it comes to them using the TURKISH flag at their meetings. The only time I remember Ocalan being near a Turkish flag was after his arrest when he was made to stand in front of Turkish flags. I assure you he did not look delighted to be standing so close to the flags.

[talsor]

Concerning your question. Democratic Autonomy means a real independent Kurdistan in the Hands of the Kurdish Nation.

Words words words and just words. But nothing concrete and precise. probably because PKK members themselves do not understand Öcalan's thoughts. And who could do it ? There is no real thoughts. Just empty words.

I do not think Ocalan himself understand what he is saying .

[talsor]

And that coming from you? I try with my average english as much as I can to explain what PKK is fighting for. I don't know what your aim is, I didn't see one good Argument from you in the whole debate. It just seems that you wanna wedge the Kurds and do some spin here and empthy rhetoric.

You are too upset heval , so try to put your emotions aside . There are some serious problems with PKK/BDP and if you can not see it then you are blind . Feel free to get upset , but there is some truth to most of what being said here .
PKK and BDP are Just tools in APO's hand and APO is in turkey's hand . Do you know how ridiculous that sound ? Apo says dance , they dance , he says stop , they stop and everything he did and said after his capture has been against kurds and kurdistan . You do not want to see because Apo is like a religion for most of you , but we can see it and say it because kurdistan belong to us not PKK or PDK or PUK .

[talsor]

@ talsor. Read my comment which I wrote at 12:23 AM. Maybe it will help you. I don't have the time and the Passion to write comments after comments in average english with 10 lines or more to explain you PKK. And there are more than enough sources on other pages and maybe you can go to their internetsite and listen some interviews or read some books of the Guerillas. Then I think, you and the others will understand it. And I would recommend you to listen Kalkan,Karasu or Karayilan. Cause in contrast to you and the others I watch every interview of them and I see what they want for the Kurdish People. And then you will get your answers btw.

Keke min words are cheap . When it comes to PKK/BDP , what you see is what you get . PKK is APO and APO is PKK and now APO is even ahead of Kurdistan in terms of priorities . It is really sad to see young/old Kurds still fellow APO blindly despite everything he said and did after his capture . shameful , truly shameful .

[Shirko]

With all due respect, but I think we need a new party in NK, with a clear strategy, vision and a more acceptable ideology to the mainstream Kurdish masses. Apo is in jail and the PKK can never really get any international recognition because they are black listed. we will never get anywhere like this. And too many parties hurt our cause, we need a party that crosses all borders, not just some in SK or NK, EK and now WK they are doing what they want independent of everyone else. We need a couple of strong parties that include all of Kurdistan, soon we will have as many parties as they do in India. And right now our best chances of success are in SK, I think Barzani is our man. I bet the Turks will have a heart attack if they see all the Kurds in NK carrying pictures of Barzani instead of Apo.

[Anthea]

With all due respect, but I think we need a new party in NK, with a clear strategy, vision and a more acceptable ideology to the mainstream Kurdish masses. Apo is in jail and the PKK can never really get any international recognition because they are black listed. we will never get anywhere like this. And too many parties hurt our cause, we need a party that crosses all borders, not just some in SK or NK, EK and now WK they are doing what they want independent of everyone else. We need a couple of strong parties that include all of Kurdistan, soon we will have as many parties as they do in India. And right now our best chances of success are in SK, I think Barzani is our man.

Not like me to remain silent for long

I rather like the Gorran Movement

[Shirko]

With all due respect, but I think we need a new party in NK, with a clear strategy, vision and a more acceptable ideology to the mainstream Kurdish masses. Apo is in jail and the PKK can never really get any international recognition because they are black listed. we will never get anywhere like this. And too many parties hurt our cause, we need a party that crosses all borders, not just some in SK or NK, EK and now WK they are doing what they want independent of everyone else. We need a couple of strong parties that include all of Kurdistan, soon we will have as many parties as they do in India. And right now our best chances of success are
At firsy I thought in SK, I think Barzani is our man.

Not like me to remain silent for long

I rather like the Gorran Movement

At first I thought I liked them too, mainly because of the anti corruption talk. But after seeing them meeting with Iran alone and then not showing support to Barzani when he was trying to oust Maliki, I lost my intrest in them.

[talsor]

With all due respect, but I think we need a new party in NK, with a clear strategy, vision and a more acceptable ideology to the mainstream Kurdish masses. Apo is in jail and the PKK can never really get any international recognition because they are black listed. we will never get anywhere like this. And too many parties hurt our cause, we need a party that crosses all borders, not just some in SK or NK, EK and now WK they are doing what they want independent of everyone else. We need a couple of strong parties that include all of Kurdistan, soon we will have as many parties as they do in India. And right now our best chances of success are in SK, I think Barzani is our man.

Not like me to remain silent for long

I rather like the Gorran Movement

I hope you are kidding .

[talsor]

With all due respect, but I think we need a new party in NK, with a clear strategy, vision and a more acceptable ideology to the mainstream Kurdish masses. Apo is in jail and the PKK can never really get any international recognition because they are black listed. we will never get anywhere like this. And too many parties hurt our cause, we need a party that crosses all borders, not just some in SK or NK, EK and now WK they are doing what they want independent of everyone else. We need a couple of strong parties that include all of Kurdistan, soon we will have as many parties as they do in India. And right now our best chances of success are in SK, I think Barzani is our man. I bet the Turks will have a heart attack if they see all the Kurds in NK carrying pictures of Barzani instead of Apo.

Anyone who talked about establishing a new party before/after Ocalan's arrest was executed at the spot .Ocalan after his arrest and shameful apologies and expressing his readiness to serve the turkish state Ordered PKK to lay down their arms to save his neck . They were hunted down like sheeps by turkish gendermas . The sad think is that those who refused to follow Ocalan's order were executed by PKK and those who followed his orders were executed by turks . Now PKK members will deny it , but even erdogan recently admitted that they killed hundreds of PKK members who laid down their arms in 1999 and made a promise that they will not repeat that .

One of PKK's major failure is that they do not get along with anybody and the moment you criticize them you are labelled as being a turkish agent . 99% of PKK's follower do not even understand what PKK's goals are like heval Fire who thinks the democratic autonomy means "real independence " lol . Frankly , one hard look is enough for anyone to realiz that PKK has been moulded and shaped to serve and worship Ocalan and nothing more .

[Fire]

Ok, I see, we have different opinions and it's ok of course. But I want to ask the PkkCritics one question. What do you want instead of PKK? How do you want to force the worlds most racist Country and second strongest Nato Country, with all their Support from outside, with the most modern weapons to the knees?

Especially if you know that we North Kurds have the Problem that we live with the biggest subhumans and whoresons like Turks together in one Country and you know that 99,999% of them are against you and would like to kill you. And they are clearly in the majority + the whole state of course. So what is your idea to beat them, Cewlik, Talsor , Pilling and Co? How do you want to create a Kurdish Country? How do you want to manage it? Just fighting more and let them kill our People?

PKK and the North Kurds did and still does very well with their small possibilities to combat the Turks and PKK is an unbeatable Organisation. Turks himself admitted it. I just critize PKK for beeing to less agressive. Kalkan himself admitted that they only uses 30-40 of their full power and it's true. With 100 % power Turkey wouldn't exist on the map and Turkey would look like Germany after the second world war. But what is the good of this? We would achieve nothing. North Kurds have the Problem that one the one side we must destroy our enemy but on the other side, if we uses our full power we would destroy our Country at the same time.

So I wait for a answer for your tactics and ideas.

[Anthea]

Ok, I see, we have different opinions and it's ok of course. But I want to ask the PkkCritics one question. What do you want instead of PKK? How do you want to force the worlds most racist Country and second strongest Nato Country, with all their Support from outside, with the most modern weapons to the knees?

Especially if you know that we North Kurds have the Problem that we live with the biggest subhumans and whoresons like Turks together in one Country and you know that 99,999% of them are against you and would like to kill you. And they are clearly in the majority + the whole state of course. So what is your idea to beat them, Cewlik, Talsor , Pilling and Co? How do you want to create a Kurdish Country? How do you want to manage it? Just fighting more and let them kill our People?

PKK and the North Kurds did and still does very well with their small possibilities to combat the Turks and PKK is an unbeatable Organisation. Turks himself admitted it. I just critize PKK for beeing to less agressive. Kalkan himself admitted that they only uses 30-40 of their full power and it's true. With 100 % power Turkey wouldn't exist on the map and Turkey would look like Germany after the second world war. But what is the good of this? We would achieve nothing. North Kurds have the Problem that one the one side we must destroy our enemy but on the other side, if we uses our full power we would destroy our Country at the same time.

So I wait for a answer for your tactics and ideas.

No snap decisions or quick-fire answers. Going to have lunch and come back to this extremely delicate subject later on

[spartacus]

Can one of you Pro PKK guys kindly explain what "democratic Autonomy" mean ? and how is it better than autonomy or independence ?

please avoid copy and past .

you dont no what it is but are quick to judget wheter it is good ore not

the KCK is democratic confedralism. it means decentralising the central poer. in other words more local poer and less central power. Instead of Ankara deciding on what Riha ore Gewer should do ore what language they should be educated in, the people in Riha and Gewer will decide for them self. I guess they will choose kurdish. The KCK system is starting to be implemented in WK right, and in this system WK will have their own defence system like ypg, their own security system, police and so on, a judicial system first amendment, second and highest court. and also coalition for all the parties like the DBSK desteya blind. In sweden for example there is a communal system where the people chooses their politicians for their cities ore commune. but in the KCK system there will be more of direct democracy than representative democracy. The KCK system is not a complete system and there will have to be changes while in practice. this is short on the kck system

national state is the reason why kurds are thorn between four countries. the idea of nationalism dos not come from middle east on does not fit a middle east with multi religious and multiethnic people. In Sk we have one Kirkuk but in EK we have more than five kirkuks just take a look at mako. salmas, khoy, neghede and urmia as a example. we have also cities like serekanye and qamishlo in WK kurdistan there is arabs and assyrian living together with kurds. Both Kurds and azeries claim the same cities in EK, and the same goes for cities in WK kurdistan as well. And if we got a national state with the idea of one nation, one state, one language and one people we will have to force these etnicities the same thing that the turks are forcing us to do. And insted of fighting with the azeries in umia until one of the ethnicity are cleansed, we can share the cities instead. in the azerien neighbourhood they can educate them self in azeri and kurdish in kurdish areas.

we have also the problem of the kurds in khorassan and istanbul like i have already explained. in a national state the people is serving the system but in the kck system the system is serving the people instead. this short on your question i will post more when i have time. and i have also a question for you, what do you think of nepotism?

[spartacus]

Concerning your question. Democratic Autonomy means a real independent Kurdistan in the Hands of the Kurdish Nation.

Words words words and just words. But nothing concrete and precise. probably because PKK members themselves do not understand Öcalan's thoughts. And who could do it ? There is no real thoughts. Just empty words.

empty words. why do you think that the mass trial in turkey is called the KCK trial? Turkey has already admitted that there is a system within the system soon. And Turkey have to accept this system as well because the people is already using this system. Turkey cant bring any more teacher from turkish cities to teach turkish in the kurdish cities because the don't dare to come to colemerg anymore.

[spartacus]

Concerning your question. Democratic Autonomy means a real independent Kurdistan in the Hands of the Kurdish Nation.

Words words words and just words. But nothing concrete and precise. probably because PKK members themselves do not understand Öcalan's thoughts. And who could do it ? There is no real thoughts. Just empty words.

Sadly there is a certain amount of truth in that statement. Since Ocalan has been in prison he seems to have changed a great deal and nobody understands exactly what is going on. But I would have been more surprised were he not to have changed due to his treatment in Turkish hands.

I am far more disturbed by the behaviour of certain Turk loving members of the BDP, especially when it comes to them using the TURKISH flag at their meetings. The only time I remember Ocalan being near a Turkish flag was after his arrest when he was made to stand in front of Turkish flags. I assure you he did not look delighted to be standing so close to the flags.

well if you can read then you will understand, the difference is maybe reading abilities between you and pkk. Turkish flag at a bdp meting is all that you should be concerned about. like when barzani forgot KRGs flag at the AKP meting.

[Piling]

@ SPartacusempty words. why do you think that the mass trial in turkey is called the KCK trial? Turkey has already admitted that there is a system within the system soon. And Turkey have to accept this system as well because the people is already using this system. Turkey cant bring any more teacher from turkish cities to teach turkish in the kurdish cities because the don't dare to come to colemerg anymore.

And if tomorrow the roadmap and agreements between Öcalan and Turkey are unveiled, in which he would claim that autonomy should be forgotten, and the fate of Kurds is within a united democratic republic where Turks and Kurds will live like brothers, etc., what will you say ?

Science-fiction ? It is already happened several times and PKK-DEHAP-etc. agreed with the same enthusiasm and claimed that Turkish-Kurdish Brotherhood was the real future of Kurds.

So as so long as the real content of actual negotiations is hidden, PKK supporters should not be sure that this so-called autonomy (and autonomy is not independence) won't finish in the garbage of History…