First off mate, I think what you're missing is the core of my argument: That you are basically buying Kerdoğan's lies. The man does not care about the people, and he certainly doesn't care about the Arab people. He cares about making it
look and
only look like he is opposed to the Zionist state's behaviour. He has succeeded stupendously with the Turkish masses in selling this lie, so why should he change anything? Because of the uprisings across the Arab world? Do you honestly think he supports those? Have you not noticed the strong efforts by the U.S./Saudi Arabia/"Israel" to make the result of these uprisings cosmetic changes? Do you think Kerdoğan wants anything more than cosmetic change on any front?
Azamat wrote:All these Arab-Israeli relations are entirely superficial, since they are/were mostly maintained by US-appointed dictators who do not represent the people's opinion on Israel.
Nor does Kerdoğan, and the superficial relations are based on
money, which is Kerdoğan's primary concern, so you can't just brush them aside.
I'm very skeptical as to how long their leaders manage to maintain these relations.
Probably about as long as "Israel" can continue to exist in its present state. Any Arab states whose populations can actually force their leadership to be a real economic or military threat to "Israel" will be no friend to Kerdoğan and his U.S./E.U. business interests. Again, have you noticed how when Kerdoğan and his wife speak out for the Arab children they so pretend to love that it is
always those in a
republic,
never in a monarchy?
The yearning for Israeli independence and return to the 'promised land' preoccupied many Jews long before the arrival of Zionism, and the Palestinians were aware of that. The Zionists themselves launched their struggle mainly in the name of religion(promised land),
Wrong, lies, and I'm offended as a Jew to have you lie about my faith. You have falsely conflated two unrelated ideas, as is typical of the same Europeans who funded and created Zionism. I will provide you with a reading list about the history of Zionism as a private message.
a Jewish state on these lands(Zionism) is considered by many Palestinians to be a direct humiliation to their religion.
Again, most Palestinians at the time of the mandate made very clear what their problem with Zionism was: They were afraid they were going to lose the very land they lived on. I wonder where they got that crazy idea.
many Muslims see the presence of Israel as a continuity of the western attack.
As do many Christian Arabs and many Orthodox Jews.
and some even regard their war against Israel as a broader religious conflict between Islam and Judaism/Christianity.
Yes, but far more regard Palestinian Christians as their allies in a war against the state which continues to drive them off their land, year after year.
Even if their cause has its origins in nationalism, the conflict with Israel has also been motivated by religion from the very beginning, and it's starting to be the main designation of the conflict. As I stated above, because of the tragic history in Palestine/Israel which was always brought on by religion, many Palestinians tend to relate their conflict with Israel to Islam.
A minority though. And an even smaller minority if the universally recognised right of return was finally given to the Palestinians. Also, the religious elements came, again, mostly from the Jewish side and mostly
after the establishment of the Zionist state, for various reasons, most of which contradict your assumption that the Jewish religion is predisposed to some form of Zionism. The religious flavour was largely added to placate religious Jews who saw early Zionism as the worst heresy imagineable, and many still maintain this position today.
