Fatih Cekirge: The bombs to PKK, recognition to Barzani

[zurderer]

- Even one innocent life lost is too many.

Yeah. This include turkish lifes too?. So You should be against PKK too. are you?

By the way, Even one life is not lost. You are trying to exgerate harm of turkish attack to pkk.





Why would trading with Iran, Iraq, or Syira be a priority to Kurds? What does Syria have for example that Kurds would want to trade for? And why would North Kurdistan be restricted to trade only with neigboring countries?

Cost. magical word at trade.

By the way, arent north iraq land locked? another magical word. Or you will trade with airplanes Lets turn first magical word. Cost.

[matin123]

When I say even one innocent life lost is too many, I don't mean the PKK. I meant innocent Iraqi Kurds that have nothing to do with the Turkish - PKK conflict. And of course innocent Turks being killed is no different than innocent Kurds being killed.

For trade, I reckon that they would use some form of a barter system. Trading goods for goods. Because you are right, cost would be an obstacle for anyone wanting trading with the west.

[zurderer]

When I say even one innocent life lost is too many, I don't mean the PKK. I meant innocent Iraqi Kurds that have nothing to do with the Turkish - PKK conflict. And of course innocent Turks being killed is no different than innocent Kurds being killed.



Even I accept pkk as a legitimate fight power, Turkey is right to attack north iraq. It is north iraqian authorities to not let their land for anti-turkey forces. If They let them at north iraq, It is right of Turkish goverment to take action to stop or weaken PKK.

If Turkey goverment does not do this, More than one innocent Turkish citizen will die. Turkey is not attacking a peaciful neighbor but an armed group. If Kurdish autorities want to stop Turkey, They should not permit anti-Turkey groups to use their land as a military base.

So Infact, Barzani is not giving anything, He is responsible from north iraq and He is not fullfiling his responsibilities.




For trade, I reckon that they would use some form of a barter system. Trading goods for goods. Because you are right, cost would be an obstacle for anyone wanting trading with the west.

Barter is a basic trade system. North iraq is a landlocked place and Kurds have no chance but to cooperate some of their neighbors. Sure, They can cooperate syria or iran too. It is choose of kurdish people oh and of course, decision of USA.

[matin123]

"Even I accept pkk as a legitimate fight power, Turkey is right to attack north iraq. It is north iraqian authorities to not let their land for anti-turkey forces. If They let them at north iraq, It is right of Turkish goverment to take action to stop or weaken PKK."

- Lets say that that the Turkish government has to take the neccessary actions to stop the PKK... Are you saying that the Turkish military cannot tell the difference between a PKK base and Kurdish civillians?

[zurderer]

Of course, It know. After all, that is why innocent kurds are not harmed.

Remember israel- hamas conflict and compare it with Turkishy-Pkk one

[Tirigan]

To stop bloodshed Turanians could leave occupied part of Northern Kurdistan and there will be end of violence. What do Turanians want from Kurds. Kurds don’t want to live with Turanians. Go out of our land!

Arabs want money from Jews. We, Kurd, don't want anything from Turanians!

[Kurd_striker]

From who you heard they are doing well economically? How you want to export oil? How you want to become independent? You need an alliance/partnership with one of the surrounding countries. It's landlocked remember. And most of the companies doing business in the KRG region are or Kurds from Turkey or Turkish companies. For instance one of the big oil partners is Turkish.

And there is already a separation between Kurds from Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey - borders and regional parties (KDP-I, KDP, PUK, PKK, etc) . Kurds from Turkey feel different from Kurds from Iraq anyway. They feel superior. Not all Kurds in Turkey are PKK-supporters and the ones that are don't like Barzani/KDP. PKK-media is also against KDP/PUK. A result of the civil war when PKK tried to take over the Kurdish region of Iraq with violence. There are good family connections in the border regions like Colemerg, etc.

And it's impossible that Kerkuk becomes a Turkmen-ruled city. There are not enough Turkmen and Shiite Turkmen vote for Shiite parties. The writer from Hurriyet clearly states that the Turkish voice on Mosul and Kirkuk will decline: That means they will join the KRG region in turn for selling out PKK. But it doesn't mean independence for the Iraqi Kurds, but probable strengthening the KRG region.

Don't forget that KRG is becoming 'a hoe' because they are dependent on food imports and other goods and don't produce anything.

Kurdistan is booming economically, this is a fact you can't deny.
And about becoming independent? This is what the Turks are driving us to, and make us believe we are independent.
But we are a part of IRAQ, every cut off or sanction will be violating agreements between Turkey and Iraq.
May such a thing happen, than the Ceyhan-pipeline can be easily cut off.

Another thing... there will be no incursion or Turkish troops in urban Iraqi Kurdistan, since that would be an open violation of Iraq's sovereignty and integrity.

Having all the priviliges as an indepedent state but sticking with Iraq is the best option and many Kurds are working on that.
This way we would have a somewhat 'independent' Kurdistan, with as much sovereignty for us as we wish.
And still under the coat of being Iraq.

This way the Turks should shut their mouth.

Because they have no '*****' right in ANY way to talk about Kirkuk or Mosul, There can never be negotiation about that.
These are IRAQI cities....can we discuss the status of Istanbul whether it will be Greek once or Turkish?

Vladimir....you really have this Turkish superiority mentality in your posts....
We have no right to bow down to Turkish demands.....they should bow for us and other Iraqis.

[Savy]

Kurd_Striker you are misinterpreting Vladimir's post. Vladimir points that an indenpendent Kurdistan would be too volatile and delicate to survive. Most likely that her neighbours would meddle into her affairs and put pressure on her. It is not his own opinion per se.

[Savy]

Barter is a basic trade system. North iraq is a landlocked place and Kurds have no chance but to cooperate some of their neighbors. Sure, They can cooperate syria or iran too. It is choose of kurdish people oh and of course, decision of USA.

For the moment, barter is the only viable trade method for KRG; because virtually she doesn't have a financial infrastructure, plus a diverse economy. What she has to offer to the world is only oil-gas. The region can exchange oil-gas with food, machinery and other cunsumable stuff.
Given the situation, I find co-operation with neighbouring countries not fruitful enough: 1)They are not developed, that is to say they don't have know-how 2) They are in a way hostile.

[zurderer]

To stop bloodshed Turanians could leave occupied part of Northern Kurdistan and there will be end of violence. What do Turanians want from Kurds. Kurds don’t want to live with Turanians. Go out of our land!

Arabs want money from Jews. We, Kurd, don't want anything from Turanians!

So You said. What about kurds who live at Turkey. What is their decision?

By the way, If you want Turkey stop to attack north iraq, It is easy just leave north iraq. Hmm following your mentality is realy stupidy..

We have no right to bow down to Turkish demands.....they should bow for us and other Iraqis.

Because you are?

1)They are not developed, that is to say they don't have know-how

Compared with north iraq? are you joking. By the way, You will trade who and from where? Usa and with aircraft. Oh wait a little, USA is also trading with Turkey for maintaining their army at north iraq.

[Tirigan]

To stop bloodshed Turanians could leave occupied part of Northern Kurdistan and there will be end of violence. What do Turanians want from Kurds. Kurds don’t want to live with Turanians. Go out of our land!

Arabs want money from Jews. We, Kurd, don't want anything from Turanians!

So You said. What about kurds who live at Turkey. What is their decision?

By the way, If you want Turkey stop to attack north iraq, It is easy just leave north iraq. Hmm following your mentality is realy stupidy..

Are you nuts or a moron? We are in our land, Kurdistan. North, south, west, east it's belong to us. We're Kurds and all parts Kurdistan belongs to us! We never abandon our land and give it to the wolves. Turanians must leave. And I mean really leave parts of Northern Kurdistan (Amed etc.).

This map is a big joke!

[Kurd_striker]

Compared with north iraq? are you joking. By the way, You will trade who and from where? Usa and with aircraft. Oh wait a little, USA is also trading with Turkey for maintaining their army at north iraq.

USA can cut billions in aid for Turkey and Turkey will dry out.
Also, the oil going to Ceyhan is primarily Kurdish oil and can be used to threaten Turkey.

In addition, the money going from South Kurdistan to Turkey is helping the Turkish economy too.
South Kurdistan is now using Turkish products and Turkish labourers because they are the cheapest ones.
Also thats why Europe has so much Turkish guest labourers, they are the cheapest.

Kurdistan can easily change its imports to other countries such as China.
They have better quality as well.

And since South Kurdistan is under Iraq, not Turkey nor another country can boycott south Kurdistan, because that will be boycotting whole iraq.
So don´t think there is Ottoman Empire or whatever. Turks live on us.

[Savy]

1)They are not developed, that is to say they don't have know-how

Compared with north iraq? are you joking. By the way, You will trade who and from where? Usa and with aircraft. Oh wait a little, USA is also trading with Turkey for maintaining their army at north iraq.

No, compared to the developed World (France, USA, UK, Germany..etc.) Middle Eastern Countries (including Turkey and Iran) dont have adequate know-how. They are dependant to the foreign aid still to build their machinery. I am talking about that kind of know-how. If Kurds want to buil a stable and prosperous home, they have to quit relying on oil; therefore co-operation with a developed country is crucial, hence is know-how.

Trade via external world maybe on Jordan or on Iraq (If KRG doesnt break away from it ) if Iran and Turkey decide to put sanctation on KRG.

[zurderer]

Are you nuts or a moron? We are in our land, Kurdistan. North, south, west, east it's belong to us. We're Kurds and all parts Kurdistan belongs to us! We never abandon our land and give it to the wolves. Turanians must leave. And I mean really leave parts of Northern Kurdistan (Amed etc.).

This map is a big joke!



so you say. Too bad noone give any shit to your words. If you speak more sensible, Maybe at least, I can show some interest to your bla bla. Majority of kurds does not support PKK or pkk party, DTP. So I will prefer to listen them.

By the way, It is interesting majority of DTP voters live at Turkish majority cities. Oh so you want to tell me, They want to divide Turkey. Now, That is a big joke.






USA can cut billions in aid for Turkey and Turkey will dry out.
Also, the oil going to Ceyhan is primarily Kurdish oil and can be used to threaten Turkey.

Kurdish oil does not effect Turkish economy much. How about turkish threaten to cut kurdish oil? You are threating turkey with a weapon who can cut yourself deeper than Turkey. Great strategy.






In addition, the money going from South Kurdistan to Turkey is helping the Turkish economy too.
South Kurdistan is now using Turkish products and Turkish labourers because they are the cheapest ones.
Also thats why Europe has so much Turkish guest labourers, they are the cheapest.

Yes. But who is benefitting more? Turkey or north iraq. Just guess.





Kurdistan can easily change its imports to other countries such as China.
They have better quality as well.

No they are not, China goods are worse. Anyway, cost of carriage? and again even for china, you need iran.


And since South Kurdistan is under Iraq, not Turkey nor another country can boycott south Kurdistan, because that will be boycotting whole iraq.
So don´t think there is Ottoman Empire or whatever. Turks live on us.

That is like saying, Turkey cannot attack iraq. It is funny, Turkey can enter iraq soil but does not blocade?. Make your calculation better.

By the way, Turkey can open another border gate which has no relation with barzani land. So neither iraq nor Turkey harmed much, but barzani.





If Kurds want to buil a stable and prosperous home, they have to quit relying on oil; therefore co-operation with a developed country is crucial, hence is know-how.

So you think, They will give you secret of atom? You had not educated and qualified labor. So forget high technology at next 30 year. Oh of course, If everything goes well. By the way, how will you carry your goods to west?

jordan and iraq? Look at map. By the way, arent both country is in the turmoil...

You need big market to sell your goods with the reasonable costs. So tell me, which is this market? USA?

[Savy]

So you think, They will give you secret of atom? You had not educated and qualified labor. So forget high technology at next 30 year. Oh of course, If everything goes well. By the way, how will you carry your goods to west?

No, they wont. I am not talking about the secrets of jet fighter. Just more basic things.
Carrying good is not a problem as far as Kurds remain part of Iraq. It can be done on Iraq. And as far as the USA is backing up KRG, no other country would bother to challenge with her.
Plus, each neighbouring country has substantial Kurdish minorities. They had better to get on well with Northern Iraq. Any instability there will spread to your homes. So, too much pressure will hurt you as well. In the end, Kurds dont have much to lose, anyway.