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Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

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Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:06 pm

Similarities between Farsi, Kurdmanci and Zazaki:

http://erani.freehost.ag/erani.htm (in Turkish and English)

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Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:32 pm

The site is actualised and have now a domain:

http://www.erani.tk

New:
- Better design
- Categories
- More Words

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:35 pm

I checked it out, in some cases the comparisons were terrible! Their work has three major problems: 1.There are many mistakes in Persian entries, 2.If it's a comparison between Persian, Kurdmancî and Zazakî so why they have put only Kurdmancî entries of their surrounding Kurdmancî sub-dialects (as they-the collectors sound to be from Turkey and speaking Dimilkî, Kirdmanckî, Zazakî as mother tongue) and for instance the words of Şekakî (spoken in west of Urmiya Lake) and Behdînanî (spoken in southern Kurdistan) are omitted. 3.They have put words of another Iranian languages that are similar to Zazakî entries but with no respect to the similar Hewramî words! Also if we consider Kurdish (Goranî, Kurdmancî, Soranî) and Zazakî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirdmanckî) as separate languages so we better to compare both languages not to compare one of the languages (Zazakî) with a dialect of the another (Kurdmancî). So here I just corrected the mistakes and re-created another list:

(Notice that as the Kurds speaking Hewramî or Zazakî may call their language Kurdish too, so the term "Kurdish" in the below is referred to Kurdmancî, Soranî and Goranî dialects)


Persian : Kurdish : Zazakî : English

şeb : şev/w : şewe : day
rûz : roj : roce/roje/roze : day
zêmêstan : zivistan/zimistan : zimistan : winter
payîz : payîz : payîz : autumn
fesl : werz : waxt : season
sal : sal/sall : serre : year
zeman/dem : dem/kat/sat/taw/tad : dem/taw : time
dêrext : dar : dar : tree
mah : heyv/mang/meh: aşme/menge : moon/month
ebr : ewr/hewr : hewr : cloud
gol : gûl : vil : flower
kûh : çiya/kêw/şax/ko : ko : mountain
ahen : asin/esin : asin : iron
asiman : asman/ezman/siqa : asmên/ezmîn : sky
roşenayî : ronî/ronakî/roşna : roştî/roşna : light
berf : befr/berf/wefr : vewre : snow
giyah/sebzê : giya/biheş : vaş : grass
mêh : mij : mic : fog
bad : b/wa : va : wind
ab : av/w : aw(k) : water
şo'lê/şerarê/azerexş : bilûske/birûsk : blosk : flame/lightening
baran : b/waran : varan : rain
berg : belg/welg : velg : leaf
sêtarê : stêr/estêre/hes(t)are : estare/astare : star
xaher : xweh/xweyşk/xwîsk : waye : sister
nam : nav/naw/nam : name : name
mader : dayk/mak/daye/mader : maye : mother
pêder : bav/bab/bawk/piyar : pî : father
merd : mêrd/piyaw : ca-mêrd
êzdêvac : zewac/marî : zewac : marriage
bîve : bî/bîwe : viye : widow
cevan : cûwan/ciwan : genc : young
damad : zava/zawa/zama : zama : sun-in-law
dozd : diz : dizd : thief
zen : jin/jen : cênî/cinî
mêhman : mêvan/mêman : mêman : guest
merdom : merdim/mirov : merdûm/merdim/mordem
zîr : jêr : cêr : under/below
gam : gam/gav : gam : step
çêşmê/xan : kanî : henî/hênî : well/spring
kard : kard/kêrd : kardî
kar : kar : kar : word/labor
der : derî/derga : kê-ber
pol : pird/pir : pird : bridge
dêh/rûsta : gûnd/dê : dewe/deĝa
rast : rast : rast : right
çep : çep : çep :left
şanê : şane : şane : comb
balêş : balîf/baliş : balişna : pillow
ca : cê/cêga/cih : ca : place
şam : şîv/şîm : şamî : dinner
esel/engêbîn : hengwên/hengîv : hemgên : honey
gendom : genim : genim : wheat
nana : nan : nan : bread
sîb : sêv/w : saye : apple
gûşt : goşt : goşt : meat
şîr : şîr : şît : milk
ard : ard/ar : ardî : flour
mast : mast : mast : yogurt
ser : ser : ser : head
şêpêş : espije : espije/espize : louse
kolyê : gûrçik/gûrçîle : velik : kidney
zeban: ziman/ziwan//zûwan : ziwan/zûwan/zon
dendan : didan/dan/diyan : dindan : tooth
leb : lêv/lêw/lîp : lew : lip
dest : dest : dest : hand
xûn : xwîn/xwêyn : gonî : blood
ebrû : birow/birû : birûy/bûrî : eye-brow
ostoxan : este/heste/hêstik : este : bone
gûş : gwê/gwêyşke/gûh/goşke : goş : ear
dom : dû/dûv/dûçke/dim : dim/dimoçik/doçik : tail
rû/sûret : rû/bîç : rî : face
sengîn (geran) : giran : giran : heavy
xerab : xirab/w : xirab/v : dickey/bad
teng : teng/tenik : teng : tight/narrow
por : pirr : pirr : full
xoş : xweş : weş : fine/sweet
kohen/kohnê : kevn/kewn/kewne : khan : antique
sebok : sivik/sewk : sivik/senik : light/slight
merîz/naxoş : nexweş : neweş : ill
amade : amade : amade : ready
tarîk : tarî/tarîk/darîk : tarî : dark
azad : azad : azad : free
germ : germ : germ : worm
serd : sar/serd/soll : serd : cold
têşnê : tî/tînî/tînig : têşan : thirsty
dur : dur : dur : far
dêraz : dirêj : derg : long
bolend : berz/bilind : berz : tall
nezdîk : nêzîk : nezdî : near
tenha : tenê/tenya : teyna : alone
nîmê : nîv/nîwe/nîme : nême : half
tazê/nô : nû/nûwe/noy/new : newe : new
gorosnê : birsî/birçî/wirsî : vêşan : hungry
tû/der : le/de/li/di/ne : de : in
arê : erê/ê/ey : eya : yes
ba : be/bi : be : with
xod : xwe/xo : xwi/xo/ho
baxod : bixwe/bexo : bexo : (with) itself
çend : çend : çend/çand : how much
çêra : çima/çira/boçî/perçî : çira : why
kêy : kengê/key/ken : key : when
ber : ber/wer : ver : fore/front
bî : bê : bê : without
hest : heye/hes : est : it exists
ne : na/ne/no : ne : no
solh/aştî : aştî : aştî : peace
yad (bîr) : bîr/wîr : vîrî : remembrance
dêl : dill (zill) : zerre : heart
kes : kes : kes : someone/person
bûsê/maç : paç/maç/mûç : baç : kiss
sahêb : xawen : wayir : possessor/owner
xoda : xwedê/xûday/xwa : hûmay : God
ceng : şerr/ceng : ceng : war
sêda/bang : deng/bang : veng : voice
soal (pors) : pirs : pers : question
dam : dav/daw/dam : dame : snare
şerm : şerm : şerm : shame
xab : xewn/xew : hewn : sleep
dorûĝ : direw : zûrî : lie
qesem/sogend : sond/at (?) : sond : swear
bes : bes : bes : enough
bar : bar : bar : burden
sêfîd : sipî : sipê/sipî : white
siyah : reş/siye : siya : black
qêrmêz/sorx : sûr/sor : sûr : red
zerd : zerd/zer : zerd : yellow
zerr : zêrr : zerrn : gold
noqrê (sîm) : zîv/sîm : sêm : sîlvêr
gav : ga/gaw : ga : cow
xer : ker : her : donkey
boz : bizin : bize : goat
berrê : berx/werek : verek : goatling
mîş : mî/pez/mêş : miye/mêş : sheep
gorg : gûr/gûrg/werg : verg : wolf
cûcêtîĝî : jûjî/jûşk : jûje/cûce : hedgehog
mar : mar : mar : snake
esp (ester) : esp/hesp/ester
mûş : mişk : merre : mouse
esp (ester) : esp/hesp/ester : estor : horse
mahî : masî : mase : fish
gorbê : kitik/pişik/pisî : pising : cat
morĝ : mamir/mirîşk/kerg : kerge : hen
kûrmûş : koremişk : herremûşk : mole
rûbah : rovî/rêvî : lûwe : fox
xûk : beraz/xûk/xwîg : xozî : pig
xêrs : hirç/hirş/wirç : heş : bear
yêk : yek/êk/ye : yew/yo/jû : one
do : du/didu : di/didi : two
sê : sê : hirê : three
çahar : çwar/çar : çar : four
penc : pênc/penc : panc : five
şîş : şeş : şeş :six
heft : heft/hewt : hewt : seven
heşt : heşt/heyşt : heşt/heyşt : eight
noh : neh/now : new : nine
deh : deh/de : des : ten
kerden : kirin/kirdin : kerdene : to do
morden : mirin/mirdin : merdene : to die
xasten : xwastin/wîstin : wastene : to want
bordan : birin/birdin : berdene : to carry
avorden : anîn/hênan/awirdin : ardene : to bring
ameden : hatin : amayene : to come
gêrêften : girtin : girewtene/gûretene : to take
xanden : xwendin : wendene : to read
dûşîden : dotin : ditene : to milk
borîden : birrîn : birrnayene : to cut
gêryê kerden (gêrîsten) : giryîn/girîn : bermayene : to cry
nêvêşten : nûsîn/nivîsîn : nûştene : to write
manden : man : mendene : to remain
daden : dan/dayîn : dayene : to give
koşten : kûştin : kiştene : to kill
sûxten : şewitin/sûçyan : veşayene : to burn
gerdîden : gerryan/gorîn : vurnayene : to turn into
forûxten : firotin : rotene : to sell
xaranden/xarîden : xurandin/xûrîn : hûryayene : to itch
nûşîden (aşamîden) : vexwarîn/hellqorrîn : şimitene : to drink
bûden/şoden : bûn/bûyîn/bîn : biyene : to become/to be
fehmîden : fehm kirdin/têgeyştin : fehm kerdene : to understand
nêşêsten : rû nîstin/da nîştin : ro niştene : to sit/ sit down
poxten : pehtin/kûllyan : potene : to cook
danêsten : zanîn/zanistin : zanayene/zanitene : to know

to be continued....
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:41 pm

Thank you for your comment, you see, that 99% of the similarties between zazaki and kurdish are also exist in persian and other irnian languages. Is Kurdish now a persian dialect?

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:48 pm

i fix the errors now, if i be finish, i post here.

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:21 pm

ok i fixed it, if you find any other errors, post it here.

thank you

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Diri » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:25 pm

@Emanoel

Birayê delal - I see you are not using the term "Kurdmancî" correctly...

It should be used to mean BOTH Kurmancî and Soranî - not just Kurmancî as you have done here...

"Kurdmancî" = "Kurdish Language"

And the Kurdish languages are Kurmancî and Soranî from a linguistic point of view... Since Hewramî, Goranî and Zazakî fall under a category called "Pehlewanî"...
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:29 pm

@Diri

Yes, you are right. Sorani and Kurmanci are the self language. The other languaes are too far of the real kurdish langauge. Sorani and Kurmanji speakers can communivate with together. Language = Communication tool.

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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Diri » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:38 pm

Johny Bravo wrote:@Diri

Yes, you are right. Sorani and Kurmanci are the self language. The other languaes are too far of the real kurdish langauge. Sorani and Kurmanji speakers can communivate with together. Language = Communication tool.


Well I'm not denying or renouncing Zazakî, Hewramî or Goranî as "non-Kurdish" - but from a linguistic perspective, they are "Pehlewanî", not "Kurdmancî"...

And "Kurdmancî" literally means "Kurd-Language" - so that makes it very logical indeed...

Hewramî and Goranî as well as Zazakî who are Kurdish will indeed say they speak "Kurdish" - and I agree with that too - because "Kurdish" is a larger term than "Kurdmanc" - "Kurdmanc" = "Kurmanc & Soran" - while "Kurd" = "Kurmanc, Soran, Goran, Hewraman and Zaza"...

So that is what I mean when I say we must use the term "Kurdmanc" correctly in linguistic terms...
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Diri » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:47 pm

It says that it's "Nod" for "Ninety" in Kurmancî...

In Colemêrg we say "Nehwêd"...
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:55 pm

@ Johny Bravo

The last time I checked it out you had fixed only some of mistakes rarely-by your wish. I'll inform you soon.


@ Kak Diri

Bira, min li pêş jî dizanî wişeya "Kurdmancî" hûn bi çi wate (mana) û li kîjan derê bi kar dînin. Lêbele du tiştên li wê derê de hene kû em dêvê hoşa xwe bidin wan: yekem ev e kû wişeya "Kurmanc" kû Kurd li bakûr zaravaya xwe bi wî qall (gazî) dikin û dinasin li binerete (origin) a xwe forma kurtbûye ya wişeya "Kurdmanc"e. Û duyem ev kû heger em bixwazin wişeya "Kurdmanc", li her wateyek, bi kar bînin, dêvê wişeya "Kirmanc/Kimanckî" jî bi "Kirdmanc/Kirdmanckî" bi kar bînin. Wesa kû hemî dizanin "Kirmanc" forma başûriya "Kurmanc" e û Kurd li başûr û rojhilatê welatê "Kurmanc" bi "Kirmanc" qall dikin û zimanê Kirmanckî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Zazakî) bineretya xwe ji rojhilatê Kurdistanê hene (bi şûna hatina ayînê Ehlê Heq/Yarsan ji rojhilat bi bakûr).
Li binerete de wiseyên "Kurmanc" yan "Kurdmanc" ti ciyawazî (ferq) nine. Da (then) em nikarin bi asanî dû şêwe yên yek wişe bi du wateyên ciyawaz bi kar bînin. Bi taybet kû wî wişe, "Kurmanc/Kirmanc" li nava her du girohên Kurd kû bi Kurmancî û Kirmanckî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Zazakî) diaxivin dêt bi kar anîn û nîşan dide em hemîi Kurdin gerçî zimanên me ji dîmen (aspect) a zimannasîn ciyawazî dike. Bi giştî xweziya min ev e kû yan "Kurmanc" bihere bi kar anîn yan jî "Kurdmanc" nekû em zaravayên Kurmancî û Soranî li jêra girohek bi navê "Kurdmancî" nas bikin.

Heger li Kurmanciya min de kêmasî hene bi kerema xwe bibore. Zaravya zikmakiya min Soraniya Erdellanî (Sineyî) e û binereteya bavê min ji bajarê Kirmanşanê, deverek kû Kelhûrî û Lekî têde dên axaftinê, ye. Dewame gûtara xwe bi Înglîziyê dinûsim.

Dear bro, I had got your picture. So let me explain what I mean myself. Goranî, Hewramî, Kurmancî, Soranî, and Zazakî are all speeches Kurdish people speak. Goranî, Kurmancî, and Soranî are dialects of a language as the similarity between their syntax and verbal systems illustrates so. On the other side Hewramî and Zazakî (also called as Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirmanckî) are two independent languages according to their syntax and verbal systems. So never skip in mistake about Kelhûrî, Gerrûsî and Feylî sub-dialects to consider them different from Kurmancî and Soranî. Here I made some grammatical comparisons to exemplify the situation of Kurdish speeches:


Kurmancî : Soranî : Goranî : Hewramî : Zazakî : English

di-ç-im : de-ç-im : di-ç-im : me-l-u : ş-en-an/u : I do
di-ke-î : de-ke-î(t) : di-ke-î(d) : me-ker-î : k-en-ay : you do
di-xwaz-e/ît : de-xwaz-ê(t) : di-xwaz-î(t) : me-waz-o/enî : waz-en-o/a : s/he waits
di-xwîn-in : de-xwên-în/îm : di-xwîn-îm : me-wan-me : wan-en-îme : we read
di-pirs-in : de-pirs-in : di-pirs-in : me-pers-ên : pers-en-ê : you ask
di-bêj-in : de-wêj-in : di-wîj-in : me-waç-ên : vac/j-en-ê : they say

You see that Kurmancî, Soranî, and Goranî could be easily distinguished to be of same language. But Hewramî and Kirmanckî (Zazakî) are independent languages. Tottally Kurdish people speak three languages: the first one is composed of Kurmancî, Soranî and Goranî dialects, the second one is Hewramî and the third one is Kirmanckî (also known as Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Zazakî). Since around 95% of Kurds speak the first one (Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî dialects) so outsiders refer the term "Kurdish language" to it with no respect to the fact that Hewramî and Zazakî (Kirmanckî) speaking Kurds may call their own language as Kurdish too.
The question about Goranî dialect is in the correct use of the term "Goranî". Totally Hewramî, Goranî and Soranî speaking Kurds use the word "goranî" in meaning of "song". Also there is a famous Kurdish tribe, speaking Kelhûrî, in the southeastern Kurdistan called "Goran". Besides most of Old Hewramî texts are referred to be written in "Goranî". It's a flat fact that there are firm bands between Feylî, Gerrûsî, Kelhûrî, Lekî and Soranî dialects and Hewramî Kurdish. But the term Zaza-Goranî or Pehlewanî is supposed to cover all Hewramî and Zazakî varieties. It's why guys think current Goranî term (referring to Kelhûrî, Gerrûsî, and Feylî) is the same as Zaza-Goranî and Kelhûrî, Gerrûsî and Feylî sub-dialects must be considered as Pehlewanî (Zaza-Groan). Also the term Pehlewanî could be put under question itself. This term comes from the name of a region and a little city south of Îlam (southeastern Kurdistan) called "Pehle". "Pehle-wî" or "Pehle-wan" is referred to the residents of Pehle. Some say probably the Pahlavi (Pehlewî) language, known as Middle Persian, is originated from this part of Kurdistan since the Sassanid dynasty, whom the Pahlavi (Pehlewî) language was the official language of their empire, were Kurdish in origin. Interesting that the term "Feylî" is Arabifyed form of "Pehlî" (Pehlî > Fehlî > Feylî) . The same Arabification occurred for the term Pars (Persian; Pars > Fars). You see, we use the term Pehlewanî to recognize Hewramî and Zazakî but there is a different speech, Feylî, which carries the term Pehlî (Pehlewanî) too. Also Kirmanşani Kurds, speaking Kelhûrî, call each other "pallewan" along with "kake". You see even the cultural bands are as firm that you cannot the differences and use a term easily.
Eventually no matter which term we use in order to categorized Kurdish Languages (the languages Kurdish people speak), it's important to know which Kurdish speeches must be recognized as same languages. We could categorize Kurdish languages in two groups:

1. Kurmancî (Kurdmancî) : Goranî, Kurmancî (Kurdmancî), and Soranî dialects
2. Pehlewanî : Hewramî and Kirmanckî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, and Zazakî)
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:02 pm

The last time I checked it out you had fixed only some of mistakes rarely-by your wish. I'll inform you soon.

ok, inform me.

di-ç-im : de-ç-im : di-ç-im : me-l-u : ş-en-an/u : I go

in semnani (caspian language): shennî, in talysh (azerbaycan): ez shundem

di-ke-î : de-ke-î(t) : di-ke-î(d) : me-ker-î : k-en-ay : you do

persian: mi-kon-i, semnani: k-enn-î = i do

di-xwaz-e/ît : de-xwaz-ê(t) : di-xwaz-î(t) : me-waz-o/enî : waz-en-o/a : s/he waits

xwaz sounds totally differently, in persian: xwah.

di-xwîn-in : de-xwên-în/îm : di-xwîn-îm : me-wan-me : wan-en-îme : we read

persian: mi-xwon-îm, in baluchi: wan-ag = to read.

di-pirs-in : de-pirs-in : di-pirs-in : me-pers-ên : pers-en-ê : you ask

persian: mi-pors-and

di-bêj-in : de-wêj-in : di-wîj-in : me-waç-ên : vac/j-en-ê : they say

it is not vacene!! it is vanê! only in the imperative it is using: vace = say!

zazaki: vanan = i say
semnani: vannî = i say

zazaki is not kurdish!

BUT KURDISH IS PERSIAN!

a kurd can understand NOTHING in zazaki if a zaza speaks zazaki, and a zaza can't understand anything in kurdish!

LANGUAGE = COMMUNICATION TOOL! why you dont accept this??

and don't come with that the most persians use "xah" or so, in middle persian was this "xw", and many new persian dielects use the "xw". "xw" and "x" sounds similary, but "w" totallly differently! don't read it, speak it!!

ps: and in kelhuri/leki (you say to it "gorani") there is no "di", they say as example "mi kem" to "i make" and "kûd" to = makes. yes this is also in some soran dialects the case, but in standard sorani it is "de"-, the standard is the most imporant language.

please see the reality!! only sorans and kurmanjs can communicate! therefore only kurmanji and sorani are dialects of the same language.

Johny Bravo
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:17 pm

Kak Emanoel - you're Kurmancî is good, but this is an English section of the forum...

I already agreed earlier that Kelhûrî etc. are close to Soranî...


Only time will tell if Zazakî will be a Kurdish language or not... Right now, it's slipping away...
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:39 pm

@ Kak Diri

Ok bro, pardon. I felt I'm better to write those parts in Kurmancî Kurdish.

Indeed bro, since I speak both Soranî and Goranî dialects as mother tongue I can say they are so close.

And about Zazakî: the question is so simple! Around 1~1.5 million Kurds, mainly from Dêrsim (Turkish "Tunçeli"), Çewlîg (Turkish "Bingöl") and Siwêreg (if I'm not mistaken Turkish "Siverek"), speak an Iranian language called Kirmanckî, Kirdkî or Zazakî (in the northern and central areas), and Dimilkî (in the south). This language is too close to another language spoken by Kurdish people in the southeastern Kurdistan called "Hewramî". Also there are firm religious bandings between Kirmanckî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Zazakî) speaking Kurds and Hewramî and Goranî speaking Kurds since there are significant followers of the Kurdish religion, Yarsan (also known as Ehl-ê Heq, Ateşbêgî, Bektaşî, Kakaî, Alevî, etc) amongst them.
Besides the similarities between these two languages and the other tongue Kurdish people speak, which is composed of Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî dialects, of which I like to refer as "Common Kurdish Heritage"; there are differences between Hewramî-Zaza and the other Kurdish language arising from the influence of a stranger language, Parthian, on Hewramî and Zazakî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirmanckî) both.
These three languages are called "Kurdish" by their related speakers and are exclusively spoken by Kurdish people. Thereby every one of these three languages could be called "Kurdish" with respect to its linguistic independence from the rest two. So there is a new theory talking of "Kurdish Languages", and on the other hand: "The Languages Kurdish People Speak", putting Hewramî, Kurmancî (Goranî, Kurmancî, and Soranî) and Zazakî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirmanckî) languages under same group. That's it!


@ Johny Bravo

First of all I'm so sorry for you living in modern times but owning medieval believes. Your emphasis on "Yahudi Kürd" in the blow link seems to declare that to be Jewish is a kind of shame and sin!!

http://f28.parsimony.net/forum68376/messages/4758.htm




Since you particularly use the term "Kurdish" to refer the Kurmancî dialect so can I ask where did I call Kirmanckî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Zazakî) as a dialect of Kurmancî or consider it as a dialect of a language along with Kurmancî that you wrote "zazaki is not kurdish!"?!
I fraternally beg you to read my last post and the above sayings about Zazakî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirmanckî) to Kak Diri meticulously. If you have any trouble in understanding English ask someone to translate the texts in a language you comprehend better.



"a kurd [~by his meant: Kurmancî, Soranî speaker] can understand NOTHING in zazaki if a zaza speaks zazaki, and a zaza can't understand anything in Kurdish [~Kurmancî, Soranî dialects by his meant]!" Johny Bravo wrote.


So take a look at this list to figure it out if the Kurmancî-Soranî speaking and the Zazakî speaking Kurds lingually understand anything of each other or not:

Kurmancî (Kurmancî&Soranî) : Zazakî (Dimilkî, Kirdkî, Kirmanckî) : English

bike! : bike! : do!
berz bike : berz bike : lift!
şerr/lec bike! : lej/lec bike! : fight!
bide! : bide! : give!
binûse : binûse : write!
rast binûse : rast binûse : write correctly!
bifirrne! : bifirrne! : (make) fly!
biço! : bişo! : go!
bê! : bê! : come!
ez : ez : I
qise kirdin : qise kerdene : to talk
roj/roc : roje/roce/roze : sun
mang : menge : month
hewr : hewr : cloud
qirr kirdin : qirr kerdene : massacre
welat : welat : country
hev/hemwelatî : hemwelatî : countryman
ziman/ziwan : ziwan/zon : language
sûr : sûr : red
kesk : kesk : green
şîn/kew : kewe : blue
sipî : sipê : white
kutik/sipe : kutik/sibe : dog
por/gij : por/gij : hair
befr/wefr/bewr : vewre : snow
bawk/piyar : bawk/pî : father/dad
dayik/mak : dayik/maye : mother/mom
bira : bira : brother
bira bê! : bira bê! : come brother!
me- : me- : negative
meke : meke : don’t do!
mede : mede : don’t give!
kûtre : kûtre : where
didu : didi : two
çar/çwar : çar : four
pênc : panc : five
şeş : şeş : six
heft/hewt : hewt : seven
heşt/heyşt : heşt/heyşt : eight
neh/now : new : nine
bîst/wîst : vîst : twenty
set/se : se : hundred
hezar : hezar : thousand
nû/noy/new : newe : new
eşkere : eşkere : obvious
şûwan : şûwan : shepherd
merdim : merdim : people
camêrd : camerd : man
dan/dayîn : dayene : to give
xemilandin : xemilnayene : to make-up
firran/firrîn : firrnayene : to fly
mirîşk/kerg : kerge : hen
keleşêr : kereşêr : rooster
pirtûk/kitaw : pirtûk/kitav : book
aw/av : awe : water
bapîr : bapîr : grandfather
gûnd/dê : de/deĝa : village
dapîr : dapîr : grandmother
pird : pird : bridge
kenîşk/kene : kêne : girl
lawike : lawike : folklore song
bûk/wewî : veyve : bride
zava/zama : zama : bridegroom
ban/key/mal : ban/keye : home
fehm kirdin : fehm kerdene : to understand
-ê/-a : -ê/-a : masculine/feminine
welat-ê me : welat-ê ma : our homeland
eşîret-a Mutkî : eşîret-a Mutkî : Mutkî tribe
beq : beq : frog
bidoşe! : bidoşe! : milk!


Amazing huh?!





"and don't come with that the most persians use "xah" or so, in middle persian was this "xw", and many new persian dielects use the "xw". "xw" and "x" sounds similary, but "w" totallly differently! don't read it, speak it!!" Johny Bravo wrote.

Such expression about existence of "xw-" in nowadays Persian wasn’t unexpected since your erroneous list on similarities between Kurmancî, Farsi and Zazakî.
I don’t have enough time to exhaust the development of Persian language through the last 1400 years or to hold on-line Persian courses for you! But I'll do all my best to help you in this case.

For your knowledge I must previously say that I'm educated in Persian and can speak it (and its several dialects/accents) as mother tongue and my mother, possessing doctor's degree of Persian literature and history, is teaching Persian literature and history in the university.
From a present linguistic aspect there are three kinds of Persian language: 1.Old Persian 2.Middle Persian (Zoroastrian Pahlavi) 3.New Persian. The last one, New Persian, is referred to all kinds of Persian language since 1400 years ago. It's a flat fact that every language, especially Indo-European ones, changes through such period in several degrees. But according to the present belief, unfortunately, we must consider the Persian that the medieval Iranian poets such as Molana, Sa'di, Khaqani, etc, have composed their poems exactly same as the current modern Persian people speak on the streets! Every one fluent in Persian knows such belief is so much false.
In the Middel Persian (Zoroastrian Pahlavi) there exists initial "xw-". In the Archaic Persian (known as New Persian but spoken around 1400-1000 years ago!) some of these initial "xw-" are preserved (e.g. Pahlavi "xwarden" Archaic Persian "xwerden"; Pahlavi "xwasten" Archaic Persian "xwasten"; but Pahlavi "xweday" Archaic Persian "xoda/xoday"). The "-w-" of initial "xw-" is completely dropped since 10 centuries ago and they pronounce it "xa-" and "xo-" (e.g. "xorden", "xasten", "xanden", etc.).
Nowadays no ethnic Persian can pronounce "w" but only "v" (maybe in some exceptions only final "-w" could be heard; e.g. "nô(w)" ~ "new"). In the opposite side stand Tajik people speaking a variety of Persian (known as Dari Persian) in which there is no "v" but only "w". But the point is that in no one of both any "xw-" exists, just "xa-" or
"xo-":

Daily Persian : Official Persian : Dari Persian : English

mî-re-m : mî-rev-em : mê-rew-em/om : I go
mî-xa-m : mî-xah-em : mê-xah-em/om : I want
mî-xûn-em : mî-xan-em : mê-xan-em/om : I read
mî-xor-em : mî-xor-em : mê-xor-em/om : I eat






"ps: and in kelhuri/leki (you say to it "gorani") there is no "di", they say as example "mi kem" to "i make" and "kûd" to = makes. yes this is also in some soran dialects the case, but in standard sorani it is "de"-, the standard is the most imporant language.

please see the reality!! only sorans and kurmanjs can communicate! therefore only kurmanji and sorani are dialects of the same language." Johny Bravo's great finale on Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî Kurdish!!


Thanks for your attempt on introducing me with my father and my fiancée's mother tongue, Goranî dialect (Gerrûsî, Kelhûrî, etc.), but if you will pardon me I must say you're completely wrong.
Let me clarify the use "di-" ("de-") in Kurmancî, Soranî and Goranî. Often when a Kurmancî or Soranî speaker says "diçim"/"deçim" s/he means "I go"/"I'm going" both. The same thing occurs in daily Persian where the speakers mean both "I go"/"I'm going" while saying "mîrem". But it's not the original form of course. In this case the original form in Kurmancî Kurdish is still preserved in some sub-dialects such as Hekkarî where "çim" means "I go" and "di-çim" means "I'm going". Also most of Goranî sub-dialects have preserved it too: "çim" ~ "I go" and "di-çim" ~ "I'm going". But sometimes the same thing occurs in Goranî: diy-êm "I come"/I'm coming", "de-rrom" ~ "I go/I'm going", etc. Totally the use of "di-" in the indicative form occurs in Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî dialects all, but in a wider extent in Kurmancî and Soranî:


Common Kurmancî : Hekkarî Kurmancî : Soranî : Goranî: English

dikim : kim : dekem : kem : I do
dikim : dikim : dekem : dikem : I'm doing

diçim/diherrim : çim/herrim : deçim/derrom : çim/derrom : I go
diçim/diherrim : diçim/diherrim : deçim/derrom : diçim/derrom : I'm going

dibînî : bînî : deb/wînî(t) : wînîd/diwînîd : you see
dibînî : dibînî : deb/winî(t) : diwînid : you are seeing

dixwîne/ît : xwîne : dexwênê(t) : xwînî(t) : s/he reads
dixwîne/ît : dixwîne : dexwênê(t) : dixwînî(t) : s/he is reading

d/tên : dên : d/tên : d/tiyên : they come (but Silêmanî Soranî "yên")
d/tên : dên : d/tên : d/tiyên : they're coming


*note that Soranî speakers may use "xerîk" for this case (e.g. "xerîkim deçim" ~ "I'm going"; "xerîkîn dexwênîn" ~ "we are reading"; etc).

As you see Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî are dialects of a unique language (whatever it named: "Kurdish", "Kurdmancî", "Kurmancî", etc) and their speakers can communicate as my father (speaking Goranî Kurdish) and my mother (speaking Soranî Kurdish), through their marriage life, and me (speaking Soranî Kurdish) and my fiancée (speaking Goranî Kurdish) and millions of Kurds in eastern and southern Kurdistan are doing so.



Here is the famous poem about Kurdish language in Goranî dialect:

Xwem Kirmaşanî, Farsî Niyezanim / We Ziwanê Kurdî Derdid We Giyanim
But when the prayer is over then disperse abroad in the land and seek the grace of God, and remember God much, that you may be successful.
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Re: Similarities between Kurdmanci, Farsi and Zazaki

PostAuthor: Diri » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:44 pm

Common Kurmancî : Hekkarî Kurmancî : Soranî : Goranî: English

dikim : kim : dekem : kem : I do
dikim : dikim : dekem : dikem : I'm doing

diçim/diherrim : çim/herrim : deçim/derrom : çim/derrom : I go
diçim/diherrim : diçim/diherrim : deçim/derrom : diçim/derrom : I'm going

dibînî : bînî : deb/wînî(t) : wînîd/diwînîd : you see
dibînî : dibînî : deb/winî(t) : diwînid : you are seeing

dixwîne/ît : xwîne : dexwênê(t) : xwînî(t) : s/he reads
dixwîne/ît : dixwîne : dexwênê(t) : dixwînî(t) : s/he is reading

d/tên : dên : d/tên : d/tiyên : they come (but Silêmanî Soranî "yên")
d/tên : dên : d/tên : d/tiyên : they're coming


Brother, we don't say "kim" - all our endings are "-em" where Amedî Kurmancî (and most other sub-dialects) would be "-im"... :)

And no need to apologize birayê delal :) It's just that I want everybody to be able to follow this amazing and great information which we share here. Gelek sipas bo ronî'kirina te - gelek balkêşe... :)
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