Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Rubar]

You guys just writing the same thing again and again. Talk is cheap. But no truth in it. You proof nothing. So, I tell Kurds comes from Zazas. They are just a Zaza tribe. Many Kurds thinks they are Zaza. Those people who claim not to be Zaza are Turkish agents. See I can make those kinds of sentences. Not really hard.

I can name you hundred of thing that are different. Wehave foods called Silki and Sorin that you can not find anywhere. We have games such ad Kaye Heliki and Kaye Hekmes that is only played in my hometown. We have different folkloric plays. Alevi Zazas has a lot of cultural differences. In Dersim, they have a holiday called Gagan. Gagan is the begining of the new year celebrated in January 13. We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else. You guys did not name anything. you are just telling me the same story over and over.

One last thing, only Zaza people decides what they are and what their future will be. It is that simple. And don't worry, we are very organized in Zazaistan (oops! that was Kurdistan, isn't it? ) and yes we have bases there.

Where is my answer for the question about five and culture. Don't tell me that you did not read rest of my message.

You Moron, Gagan is Christian. Kalke Gagan is what Kurds call Santa Claus. Go and learn some history before you make up B-LLSH--T. Kurds used to celebrate this with Armenians.


I have been to Dersim and Cewlik (Bingol). I know many people all over that region, including Palu, Diyarbakir, Siverek etc. Don't insult my intelligence. The only reason I am replying is that some Kurds that are unaware need to be aware.

You are typical manifestation of a personality trait that is so common amongst oppressed peoples. Self-Hatred reaching a point where you will do anything to not be a Kurd. Well I have good news, be whatever you want to be. but do not claim that you represent the Kurds of Dersim, Palu, Cewlik, Siverek etc. Because YOU DO NOT. You never will.


Just a comment to Vladimir,

What do you mean all Kurdish nationalist are lying? I think you are mixing Kurdish nationalist with Turkish state. We do not need to lie about Zaza or any body else.

[Serd]

You guys just writing the same thing again and again. Talk is cheap. But no truth in it. You proof nothing. So, I tell Kurds comes from Zazas. They are just a Zaza tribe. Many Kurds thinks they are Zaza. Those people who claim not to be Zaza are Turkish agents. See I can make those kinds of sentences. Not really hard.

I can name you hundred of thing that are different. Wehave foods called Silki and Sorin that you can not find anywhere. We have games such ad Kaye Heliki and Kaye Hekmes that is only played in my hometown. We have different folkloric plays. Alevi Zazas has a lot of cultural differences. In Dersim, they have a holiday called Gagan. Gagan is the begining of the new year celebrated in January 13. We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else. You guys did not name anything. you are just telling me the same story over and over.

One last thing, only Zaza people decides what they are and what their future will be. It is that simple. And don't worry, we are very organized in Zazaistan (oops! that was Kurdistan, isn't it? ) and yes we have bases there.

Where is my answer for the question about five and culture. Don't tell me that you did not read rest of my message.

You Moron, Gagan is Christian. Kalke Gagan is what Kurds call Santa Claus. Go and learn some history before you make up B-LLSH--T. Kurds used to celebrate this with Armenians.


I have been to Dersim and Cewlik (Bingol). I know many people all over that region, including Palu, Diyarbakir, Siverek etc. Don't insult my intelligence. The only reason I am replying is that some Kurds that are unaware need to be aware.

You are typical manifestation of a personality trait that is so common amongst oppressed peoples. Self-Hatred reaching a point where you will do anything to not be a Kurd. Well I have good news, be whatever you want to be. but do not claim that you represent the Kurds of Dersim, Palu, Cewlik, Siverek etc. Because YOU DO NOT. You never will.


Just a comment to Vladimir,

What do you mean all Kurdish nationalist are lying? I think you are mixing Kurdish nationalist with Turkish state. We do not need to lie about Zaza or any body else.

You mentally retarted moron asked me to name five cultural differences, and I named more than that. It is not important whether Gagan is Christian or not.

I don't have to do anything not to be a Kurd because I am only a Zaza, and that is it. Our language is different; we can't even communicate. I told you to name five common cultural things between you and us that you don't see in other ethnicities. You couldn't even name it. So, you should shut up!

Don't worry, I am not representing the Kurds of Dersim, Palu, Cewlik, Siverek. I represent Zazas of Dersim, Pali, Colig, Sovreg... We decide what we are, not chauvinist who are not even Zaza.

[Piling]

I have a question : Do you live in Dersim ? And do you know what people living there think of that "Zazaistan" project ? Because except few TIKKO members, never saw there a great enthusiasm for this project. At the contrary, this summer in Hewlêr I see Dersimis, and even old Dersimi man and woman (and they were Zaza and Alevi) crying by seeing the Kurdish flag on the airport. They did not seem care about a Zazayi flag !

[Serd]

I have a question : Do you live in Dersim ? And do you know what people living there think of that "Zazaistan" project ? Because except few TIKKO members, never saw there a great enthusiasm for this project. At the contrary, this summer in Hewlêr I see Dersimis, and even old Dersimi man and woman (and they were Zaza and Alevi) crying by seeing the Kurdish flag on the airport. They did not seem care about a Zazayi flag !

Not everybody from Dersim is Zaza. There are some Alevi Kurmancs living there. So, those crying people--I don't really believe your story anyway--might not be Zaza. Actually, I don't believe that people will cry for a flag that they didn't even see it until three years ago. people won't make thing sacred that fast.

If they were Zaza, I am sure their feelings would change as soon as they get out of the airport. When they see they can't understand the language of the people there and have difficulties in daily life, they will realize that place is not their place. They have to forget their language and assimilate into them, which I think is not the smartest thing to do.

There are lot's of Kurds in fact millions of Kurds who carry Turkish flag with them, sing Turkish anthem, act like Turkish nationalists. Why don't you mention them?

My aim is not to form a Zazaistan or Zazana. A country is not really necessary. I know many people who says I am Zaza, but they don't support a Zazana is Zazaistan. However, it would be good if had a country. For me protecting the language and culture from assimilaters, and forming a single Zaza political front is more important. This way, Zazas will be able to decide their future too. However, I support the idea of having a country for Zazas.

[Piling]

They were Zaza, be sure, and from Dersim.

When they see they can't understand the language of the people there and have difficulties in daily life, they will realize that place is not their place

It is not the problem to understand or not. They are free in that country, and they feel it as the victory of all Kurds, zazayi, kirmancî or soranî. And in the same way, I constated that in Southern Kurdistan, people have a great respect for Dersim and Sheikh Saïd Riza. They make no difference between their people.

[Serd]

They were Zaza, be sure, and from Dersim.

When they see they can't understand the language of the people there and have difficulties in daily life, they will realize that place is not their place

It is not the problem to understand or not. They are free in that country, and they feel it as the victory of all Kurds, zazayi, kirmancî or soranî. And in the same way, I constated that in Southern Kurdistan, people have a great respect for Dersim and Sheikh Saïd Riza. They make no difference between their people.

Hey stop there! You just made up a story, and now you are building things on it. Come on, you can dupe me with that fake story that you just fart.

Language is important. Languages are the most important traits of ethnicities. If no one was speaking Kurdi, then there would be no Kurd. Nation states are found on one language; others are treated as trash like Turks do to our language. Our language is Zazaki that is our most distinct character (By the way, “Zazayi” is not the name of our language. You can’t even spell our language’s name, but you are good at faking stories.)

They feel free where? A place that is occupied by a country; a place that the Iranian government bombs twice a month; a place where you don’t know what is going to happen next and bound to a bloody ethnic civil war; a place that they don’t know the language of the area; a place they don’t have any religious connection. Common, no one from Dersim would leave their people and go to Hewler—where even people from there are eager to leave.

You are just using the same discourse against Zazas that Turkish nationalist uses against Zazas and Kurds. I don’t see any difference at all.

[Piling]

That's not fake but real life, and not a dream borned in diaspora. I went many time in Dersim, Ovacik, Pertek, and in Southern Kurdistan also. I just told what I saw and heard. As a French citizen I have no personnal nationalist interest toward the zazayi or dimili issue.

[Serd]

That's not fake but real life, and not a dream borned in diaspora. I went many time in Dersim, Ovacik, Pertek, and in Southern Kurdistan also. I just told what I saw and heard. As a French citizen I have no personnal nationalist interest toward the zazayi or dimili issue.

The word “dream” defines your fictional story. You might have been in those places, but that does not make your fake story a true story. I also don’t really care whether you--as a "Frenchyi" citizen--have or have not personal nationalist interest toward the “Zazayi” issue.

Here is the web address of the Dersim Forum. The from is mostly in Turkish; If you know little bit Turkish, you will have a better understanding about what people of Dersim think.
http://f27.parsimony.net/forum67890/

[Piling]

I don't know Turkish, only Kurdish. If people there express themselves in zazayi it could be easier for me, because it is not so far from kirmancî

[Vladimir]

What I meant Rubar, is that not all Zazaki-speakers see themselves as Kurds. Some nationalist Kurds may lie about that.

@Piling: They learn about Shex Riza/Said/Xoybun/Azadi, etc on school

And Serd everything you don't agree with is a fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream/etc??

[Piling]

@Piling: They learn about Shex Riza/Said/Xoybun/Azadi, etc on school

That's a good thing, showing that a Kurdish State is absolutely necessary as the homeland of all Kurdish culture : language, history, policy. In which other state kids could learn Sheikh Sayid Riza's story ? Turkey ?

[Serd]

I don't know Turkish, only Kurdish. If people there express themselves in zazayi it could be easier for me, because it is not so far from kirmancî

You Frencyi lier, contunious to lie . Then you should understand Persian better than "Zazayi" and should understand all Iranian languages which even I, who speaks Zazaki and studied little bit Kurdish and Persian, cannot do it. Moreover, because of regional varients in Zazaki dialects, sometimes we cannot understand eachother. But, somehow you do; you must have magical powers I guess .

In fact, in that from there are a lot of Zazaki writings too, but your eyes apperantly did not see them. Like many Kurdish forums--that appeals to Kurds from Turkey--Dersim Forum is in Turkish in order others to understand.

[Serd]

And Serd everything you don't agree with is a fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream/etc??

No no, not every think that I don't agree with is a fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream. But, her story is all fantasy/fabicrated lie/myth/dream. She just made that story up.

[Serd]

@Piling: They learn about Shex Riza/Said/Xoybun/Azadi, etc on school

That's a good thing, showing that a Kurdish State is absolutely necessary as the homeland of all Kurdish culture : language, history, policy. In which other state kids could learn Sheikh Sayid Riza's story ? Turkey ?

I prefer not to teach children than teaching them lies. People like you would teach child that they died for Kurdish cause which is not true. In fact, there were lots of Kurdish soldiers on the side of Turkish government during the Sheikh Said revolt, and there were no help from Kurdish side. So, you would all spin the reality and write a history--similar to Turkish history--and teach that to children in schools. I think that would the greatest disrespect to people who lost their lives in those events. That shows you don't even respect us. That shows we shouldn't trust you, who tries to write a history that is mostly lie, like the Turkish history.

Final fantasy of Kurdish natinalism:

They put a photo of Sheikh Said behind a flag that he never saw in his life time. That reminds me the Turkish history books where they claim that the Sallahad-din Eyyubi is Turkish. Interestingly, very similar logic.

[Vladimir]

It's generally accepted (Also by scientists) that the Sheikh Said Pirani rebellion was a Kurdish tribal/nationalist/religious uprising. There were also Kurds that fought together with Saddam against KDP/PUK, it doesn't say anything.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/kurdish/htdocs/his/said.html