Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Serd]

Hemin Kurdistan & Serd - you and everybody else is welcome to Roj Bash Kurdistan as long as you don't swear!

The MOMENT you start swearing, or offending other members - you automatically become candidates for banning...

We have banned many people for continiously swearing and breaking the rules of this forum... You are not immune!

Speak to eachother with RESPECT...

Thank you!

I am not swearing. Just show me one swearing word that used, I will ban myself.

[Serd]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

My gush, I should be banned because I used the word trash. Take a very very deep breath because only an IQ-deprived Zaza could buy the trashes and insults that you wrote above. I am just bored to read the same kind story over and over.

Finally, just name five things that are common only between you and us, excluding Persians, Turks, and Arabs. Five is very minuscule for people living side by side for two millenniums. Go ahead without insulting.

I'm not your friend and shut up.
I did not read the rest of your nonsese crab trash, s**t..

I don't really care. When you cannot find any answer, you don't have to say shut up.

Anyway, as I told you before, just name five things that are common only between you and us, excluding Persians, Turks, and Arabs. And as I told you before, five is very minuscule for people living side by side for two millenniums.

[Vladimir]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

Now that's something new. You mean you are promoting Zazaism among your families in Dersim?

[Serd]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

Now that's something new. You mean you are promoting Zazaism among your families in Dersim?

What is new? What are you talking about? Can you imagine a movement that is not connected to its people? What do you think we are? To whom all those books, magazines, and music CDs sold; to Germans or Swedish people? Don’t read too much Martin Van. He is sometimes wrong.

Look, this year a magazine, named Miraz, was published by Zazas who live in Turkey, and the 75% of the magazine was sold there. They also lunched a Zazaki radio, and they are looking for a terrestrial radio frequency; all of these done by themselves. By the way, I am not from Dersim.

I also asked you guys a question something about five and culture. No answer yet!

[Rubar]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

Now that's something new. You mean you are promoting Zazaism among your families in Dersim?

What is new? What are you talking about? Can you imagine a movement that is not connected to its people? What do you think we are? To whom all those books, magazines, and music CDs sold; to Germans or Swedish people? Don’t read too much Martin Van. He is sometimes wrong.

Look, this year a magazine, named Miraz, was published by Zazas who live in Turkey, and the 75% of the magazine was sold there. They also lunched a Zazaki radio, and they are looking for a terrestrial radio frequency; all of these done by themselves. By the way, I am not from Dersim.

I also asked you guys a question something about five and culture. No answer yet!

You are asking thw wrong question. WHy don't you name 5 differences between the Kurmanci and Dimili?

You are correct in asserting that all of the so called Zaza intellectuals are overseas. They do not have any base in Kurdistan. Off course since you have full support of the Turkish state you will always get one or two individuals who will advocate such a position. In fact I have also heard Zazaist individuals arguing how ZAZA's are actually the real Turks.
This is similar to the Yezidi's that claim to be not Kurdish in Armenia. The difference being that in Armenia the pressure comes from Armenian State.


These ZAZA intellectuals conveniently ignore the truth. If one listens to them one gets the impression that What the TUrks have done to Kurds had been done to Zaza's by Kurds themselves. This claim in itself is enough to demonstrate where these views originate. For Kurds have not attempted to Kurdify Assyrians, Suryanis etc why would they do this to Zaza's. Is it because ZAZA's themselves consider themselves as Kurds? Just like how SOrani's consider themselves as Kurds as well.
In the end there is no need for an argument. Your so called ZAZA brothers and Sisters in KUrdistan (uups ZAZAISTAN) know the truth and I suggest you cease to insult their intelligence.

[Serd]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

Now that's something new. You mean you are promoting Zazaism among your families in Dersim?

What is new? What are you talking about? Can you imagine a movement that is not connected to its people? What do you think we are? To whom all those books, magazines, and music CDs sold; to Germans or Swedish people? Don’t read too much Martin Van. He is sometimes wrong.

Look, this year a magazine, named Miraz, was published by Zazas who live in Turkey, and the 75% of the magazine was sold there. They also lunched a Zazaki radio, and they are looking for a terrestrial radio frequency; all of these done by themselves. By the way, I am not from Dersim.

I also asked you guys a question something about five and culture. No answer yet!

You are asking thw wrong question. WHy don't you name 5 differences between the Kurmanci and Dimili?

You are correct in asserting that all of the so called Zaza intellectuals are overseas. They do not have any base in Kurdistan. Off course since you have full support of the Turkish state you will always get one or two individuals who will advocate such a position. In fact I have also heard Zazaist individuals arguing how ZAZA's are actually the real Turks.
This is similar to the Yezidi's that claim to be not Kurdish in Armenia. The difference being that in Armenia the pressure comes from Armenian State.


These ZAZA intellectuals conveniently ignore the truth. If one listens to them one gets the impression that What the TUrks have done to Kurds had been done to Zaza's by Kurds themselves. This claim in itself is enough to demonstrate where these views originate. For Kurds have not attempted to Kurdify Assyrians, Suryanis etc why would they do this to Zaza's. Is it because ZAZA's themselves consider themselves as Kurds? Just like how SOrani's consider themselves as Kurds as well.
In the end there is no need for an argument. Your so called ZAZA brothers and Sisters in KUrdistan (uups ZAZAISTAN) know the truth and I suggest you cease to insult their intelligence.

Just trash, how many times have you been in Zaza cities? Can you tell me where is that Kurdistan Zazas live in it? I did not heard that. Is that something new?

You guys just writing the same thing again and again. Talk is cheap. But no truth in it. You proof nothing. So, I tell Kurds comes from Zazas. They are just a Zaza tribe. Many Kurds thinks they are Zaza. Those people who claim not to be Zaza are Turkish agents. See I can make those kinds of sentences. Not really hard.

I can name you hundred of thing that are different. Wehave foods called Silki and Sorin that you can not find anywhere. We have games such ad Kaye Heliki and Kaye Hekmes that is only played in my hometown. We have different folkloric plays. Alevi Zazas has a lot of cultural differences. In Dersim, they have a holiday called Gagan. Gagan is the begining of the new year celebrated in January 13. We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else. You guys did not name anything. you are just telling me the same story over and over.

One last thing, only Zaza people decides what they are and what their future will be. It is that simple. And don't worry, we are very organized in Zazaistan (oops! that was Kurdistan, isn't it? ) and yes we have bases there.

Where is my answer for the question about five and culture. Don't tell me that you did not read rest of my message.

[zurderer]

We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else.

That is interesting, isnt nevruz an iranic holiday and zazas are iranic people? why dont zaza celebrate nevruz?

[HeminKurdistani]

@HeminKurdistani

My friend don't get frustrated and take a deep breath. The world needs chauvinists like you. Most of the Zaza writer and singers are outside of Turkey, but most of the Zazas and Zaza nationalists living in Zaza cities and towns .

Now that's something new. You mean you are promoting Zazaism among your families in Dersim?

What is new? What are you talking about? Can you imagine a movement that is not connected to its people? What do you think we are? To whom all those books, magazines, and music CDs sold; to Germans or Swedish people? Don’t read too much Martin Van. He is sometimes wrong.

Look, this year a magazine, named Miraz, was published by Zazas who live in Turkey, and the 75% of the magazine was sold there. They also lunched a Zazaki radio, and they are looking for a terrestrial radio frequency; all of these done by themselves. By the way, I am not from Dersim.

I also asked you guys a question something about five and culture. No answer yet!

You are asking thw wrong question. WHy don't you name 5 differences between the Kurmanci and Dimili?

You are correct in asserting that all of the so called Zaza intellectuals are overseas. They do not have any base in Kurdistan. Off course since you have full support of the Turkish state you will always get one or two individuals who will advocate such a position. In fact I have also heard Zazaist individuals arguing how ZAZA's are actually the real Turks.
This is similar to the Yezidi's that claim to be not Kurdish in Armenia. The difference being that in Armenia the pressure comes from Armenian State.


These ZAZA intellectuals conveniently ignore the truth. If one listens to them one gets the impression that What the TUrks have done to Kurds had been done to Zaza's by Kurds themselves. This claim in itself is enough to demonstrate where these views originate. For Kurds have not attempted to Kurdify Assyrians, Suryanis etc why would they do this to Zaza's. Is it because ZAZA's themselves consider themselves as Kurds? Just like how SOrani's consider themselves as Kurds as well.
In the end there is no need for an argument. Your so called ZAZA brothers and Sisters in KUrdistan (uups ZAZAISTAN) know the truth and I suggest you cease to insult their intelligence.

Just trash, how many times have you been in Zaza cities? Can you tell me where is that Kurdistan Zazas live in it? I did not heard that. Is that something new?

You guys just writing the same thing again and again. Talk is cheap. But no truth in it. You proof nothing. So, I tell Kurds comes from Zazas. They are just a Zaza tribe. Many Kurds thinks they are Zaza. Those people who claim not to be Zaza are Turkish agents. See I can make those kinds of sentences. Not really hard.

I can name you hundred of thing that are different. Wehave foods called Silki and Sorin that you can not find anywhere. We have games such ad Kaye Heliki and Kaye Hekmes that is only played in my hometown. We have different folkloric plays. Alevi Zazas has a lot of cultural differences. In Dersim, they have a holiday called Gagan. Gagan is the begining of the new year celebrated in January 13. We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else. You guys did not name anything. you are just telling me the same story over and over.

One last thing, only Zaza people decides what they are and what their future will be. It is that simple. And don't worry, we are very organized in Zazaistan (oops! that was Kurdistan, isn't it? ) and yes we have bases there.

Where is my answer for the question about five and culture. Don't tell me that you did not read rest of my message.

This one really was a trash!

There are numerous examples of differences in regional cuisines even among peoples of two very close cities. billions of examples across the world!! All cities of Kurdistan have their own regional variations, in cuisine, folclore, and many other things, but they are all Kurds. The ethnic identity is important not eating which sort of Kebab or soup!!


And Newroz even was almost completely abandoned by Kurmanj Kurds too up to a few decades ago. It was with rise of Kurdish nationalism and their political supresion by occupiers that made Kurds revive Newroz celebration. As it is actually considered a significant political rally by Kurds.

[Vladimir]

Who is lying here? You are all lying.. aswell the Turks, Zaza nationalists and Kurdish nationalists. There are Zaza speakers who identify themselves with Kurds, Alevi's, Turks and "Zaza's". And about Zazaistan.. there is no historic precedent for the word. Newroz was also celebrated in Dersim in 2006.

[Serd]

We do not have Noroz; No Zaza celebrates that except those in Germany who things Zazas are something else.

That is interesting, isnt nevruz an iranic holiday and zazas are iranic people? why dont zaza celebrate nevruz?

Yes Norouz is Iranian, and yes Zazas are Iranian. I don’t know why we do not celebrate it. When I learned that Norouz is an Iranian celebration, I asked my grandfather why we don’t celebrate it. He told me that he didn’t really know what Norouz is. Recently some organizations tried to bring it our culture, and I attended one of them. But it wasn’t popular. Nowadays even the Turkish government celebrates it. In my hometown, there was also a formal celebration of Norouz and the governor of the city also attended it. Bottom line we don’t celebrate it and I don’t why.

[Serd]

This one really was a trash!

There are numerous examples of differences in regional cuisines even among peoples of two very close cities. billions of examples across the world!! All cities of Kurdistan have their own regional variations, in cuisine, folclore, and many other things, but they are all Kurds. The ethnic identity is important not eating which sort of Kebab or soup!!


And Newroz even was almost completely abandoned by Kurmanj Kurds too up to a few decades ago. It was with rise of Kurdish nationalism and their political supresion by occupiers that made Kurds revive Newroz celebration. As it is actually considered a significant political rally by Kurds.

Actually I shouldn’t answer you because you don’t read my messages .

I asked you guys to write five cultural aspects that are common between you and us. You guys couldn’t find even one. Later, somebody told me that I am asking a wrong question (Look at the logic; my question somehow is wrong ). And, that someone asked me to name five aspects of my culture that is different from yours (That question supposedly is right somehow ). I named more than five, and food is one aspect of culture. You shouldn’t have written this kind of message. Maybe you should have written something like this: Oh my god! Why I couldn’t find five things that are common even though we are living next to each other for two millenia, and culture is such a vast concept. Shame on us!

For the Norouz, we don’t celebrate it. I asked old people in my hometown. They also told me that we don’t have anything like that.

[Serd]

Who is lying here? You are all lying.. aswell the Turks, Zaza nationalists and Kurdish nationalists. There are Zaza speakers who identify themselves with Kurds, Alevi's, Turks and "Zaza's". And about Zazaistan.. there is no historic precedent for the word. Newroz was also celebrated in Dersim in 2006.

I am not lying. If you claim so, just show it to me. If you are right, I will correct myself. But, I don’t think you could find any.

There are millions of Kurds who identify themselves as Turkish and most of them happily assimilating themselves into Turkish people. I had a Kurdish friend when I was studying in Istanbul. One day, he tried to beat me in the name of Turkishness, and he was a Turkish nationalist and hanging a Turkish flag in his room. Now tell me, why don’t you see those people which are in millions?

There are many Zazas who see themselves as Turk, infact too many. There are too many Zazas who consider themselves Muslim, and they don’t care about their ethnicity. However, most of Zazas see themselves Zazas although not necessarily supporting a Zazaistan.

About the historic existence of Zazaistan, you sound like Turkish nationalists. They also say the same thing about Kurdistan. What is history anyway? Today will be history tomorrow. Today’s reality is more important than history. 80 years ago there was no country named Turkey either. There are too many countries that have 20-30-40 years old histories. There is no checklist for forming a political organization or state that says “you shall have a historical name.”

Actually, the word Zaza appears on Behistun Inscription, which is 2500 years old. We can call our state “Zazana” which is a historical name and thousands of years older than the word Kurdistan. There you have a history.

The first mention of the word Zaza appears on the Behistun Inscription. The text of the inscription is a statement by Darius I of Persia. In the inscription Darius says, “there (is) a town Zazana by name along the Euphrates…”

link: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ancientp ... istun.html

I am not against celebrating Norouz. Now Norouz is celebrated everywhere in Turkey. It became a national holiday. Even the head of Turkey Mr. Ahmed Necdet Sezer (oh, I called him Mr., may be I am a Turkish agent) attended to one official Norouz celebration. But we don’t celebrate one although some people trying to put it in our culture.

It wouldn’t bad if celebrate it. We already celebrate our New Year—Gagan—Christian new Year, and Islamic New Year. We can add one more New Year celebration. I even attended Chinese New Year celebration which was very cool and fun. I also attended one Norouz celebration in Istanbul. It was like a war and a political protest, too much stress. It was not like a celebration. However I attended one Persian Norouz celebration. There, I understand norouz is actually a celebration when you visit your friends and exchange gifts.

[Vladimir]

You say that the rebellions of 1920 (Kochgiri), 1925 (Sheikh Said) and 1937-1938 are a sort of "National Zaza resistance". You try to create your own myths for a formely non-existant etnicity. Their former identity was more based on tribalism/nomadism/religion, not Kurdish/Turkish/Zazaki nationalism. Foreign visitors in Dersim described the inhabitants as Kurds, but it's safe to say that a lot of "Zaza-speakers" identified themselves with the Alevi religion or their own tribes/headmen. Not with a Kurdish identity.

I have found no references prior to the republican period that call these tribes anything other than Kurds or Kizilbas - Bruinessen

There is a big tribe called "Zaza" that speak Kurmanci. There are also a lot of Kurmanci-speakers within "Zazaistan". Accusing me of a "Turkish nationalist mentality" is very low! I don't see the Kurds in here calling to prohibit "Zazaki" or try to assimilate them into Kurmanci speakers. I do see a lack of knowledge about the culture of Dersim. Zaza-speakers have the full right to cherish their own dialect/language and to develop it next to other dialects/languages. Indeed, it's the Zaza-speakers themselves what their future is. But I do not doubt that this kind of social/political processes are also influenced by external factors. In fact there are a lot of differences between a lot of "Kurdish tribes" or whatever you like to call them. Kurdish identity is not as strong as the Turkish identity.

Although the Zazaist and 'Kırmanc-Alevi' movements still appear to be marginal in Dersim and elsewhere in Turkey, Kurdish nationalists perceived them to be potentially dangerous and suspected the Turkish secret police of being the true motor behind this separatism in Kurdish ranks. For obvious reasons, they were equally distrustful of the official sponsorship of the Turkey-wide Alevi resurgence, which they considered as an ill-disguised attempt to drive a wedge between the Kurdish Alevis and the other Kurds.

It's a fact that one of the fathers of the Sun-language theory, Hasan Reşit Tankut, supported a separate Zaza-identity, to assimilate the "Kurds" more easily. He wrote a book about "Zazalar" and you can find the books of this Turkish nationalist on Zazaki websites like http://zazaki0.tripod.com/. He also wrote a book about etnopolitics.

[Serd]

@ Vladimir

Formerly non-existed ethnicity? It’s very funny that you used these words because Turkish nationalist have been using these words to describe Kurds. You sound like them again. If you go little bit more back, everything was non-existed. Just think little harder, you will see that.

I didn’t say the rebellions of 1920 (Kochgiri), 1925 (Sheikh Said) and 1937-1938 are a sort of National Zaza resistance. I said these people fought for their people who happen to be Zazas. So in that sense, these are Zaza resistance although not nationalist Zaza resistance.

Their former identity was more based on tribalism/nomadism/religion, not Kurdish/Turkish/Zazaki nationalism.

That’s right, but this was not only valid for Zazas. This was also true for Turks and Kurds. Nationalism arrived to these lands little bid late. Zaza picked up nationalism more late. I think it is because of barbaric Turks who burned our cities and killed our leaders when nationalism slowly began to appear in the Middle East. If Kochgiri, Seyh Said, and Dersim massacres didn’t happen, we would be looking to a different picture now.

Actually Kurdish nationalists use our rebellions more than we do even though they know that they weren’t Kurdish rebellions. Why do you ignore them?

Accusing me of a "Turkish nationalist mentality" is very low!

I accused you of thinking similar to "Turkish nationalist mentality" in some issues, not all of them. When I studied in Istanbul, I had discussions with Turkish nationalist a lot. I think your feeling toward Zazas is similar to their feeling to Zazas and Kurds in some issues.

By the way, why you always equates Zazas and Dersim. In fact, only 20% of Zazas are from Dersim.

Although the Zazaist and 'Kırmanc-Alevi' movements still appear to be marginal in Dersim and elsewhere in Turkey, Kurdish nationalists perceived them to be potentially dangerous and suspected the Turkish secret police of being the true motor behind this separatism in Kurdish ranks. For obvious reasons, they were equally distrustful of the official sponsorship of the Turkey-wide Alevi resurgence, which they considered as an ill-disguised attempt to drive a wedge between the Kurdish Alevis and the other Kurds.

As I told you Turks believe that foreign countries are driving Kurdish nationalism in Turkey to divide their country and make Turkey weaker. What you write above is almost the same with their thinking again.

I understand why some people want to support Zazas because it may be beneficial to them. But accusing us as being government agents is so ridiculous and insulting. Look if Kurdish nationalist really wanted to solve problems between us and them, they could do it many years ago, and they would be stronger. But they don’t do this. Rather, they want to treat to us like Turks treat to them. This is wrong and will not benefit their movement. Truth is too much for them and they chose hypocrisy. No truth, no justice.

[HeminKurdistani]

This one really was a trash!

There are numerous examples of differences in regional cuisines even among peoples of two very close cities. billions of examples across the world!! All cities of Kurdistan have their own regional variations, in cuisine, folclore, and many other things, but they are all Kurds. The ethnic identity is important not eating which sort of Kebab or soup!!


And Newroz even was almost completely abandoned by Kurmanj Kurds too up to a few decades ago. It was with rise of Kurdish nationalism and their political supresion by occupiers that made Kurds revive Newroz celebration. As it is actually considered a significant political rally by Kurds.

Actually I shouldn’t answer you because you don’t read my messages .

I asked you guys to write five cultural aspects that are common between you and us. You guys couldn’t find even one. Later, somebody told me that I am asking a wrong question (Look at the logic; my question somehow is wrong ). And, that someone asked me to name five aspects of my culture that is different from yours (That question supposedly is right somehow ). I named more than five, and food is one aspect of culture. You shouldn’t have written this kind of message. Maybe you should have written something like this: Oh my god! Why I couldn’t find five things that are common even though we are living next to each other for two millenia, and culture is such a vast concept. Shame on us!

For the Norouz, we don’t celebrate it. I asked old people in my hometown. They also told me that we don’t have anything like that.

When u try to insult i dont want to read your crab and trash (smelling wolf) comments. just joking

Cultural variations differe from city to city. Kurds from Mehabad may have many different cultural varations to Kurds from Sanandaj or from the ancient Kurdish city of Kirmashan. The Sanandajis even laugh at Mehabadi foods! They also may have no significant regional cultural similarities at all. but overall Kurds have a culture rooted in old Iranic cultures but influnced by Arabic culture (= Islam).
I personally dont care about regional cultures. I believe in a single modern intrnational culture, with strong points from all regions across the world.

For me important for Kurdishness is identity. A sanandaji Kurd by avoiding from eating Berbesêl does not become a non-Kurd. It is their common identity with other Kurds which makes them Kurds. Culturally you may find nothing simmilar between Arab countries. even in their musics. But since they all identify themselves as Arab then they are all Arabs.