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Question to Diri

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Question to Diri

PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:21 pm

I make a new post out of the long thread, but concerning what you have written about your own dialect. You said "dimlî". Dimlî is an else name for zazayî isn't it ? ? I did not know that there are Zaza in Hakkari... Are there tribes ?
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Re: Question to Diri

PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:29 pm

Piling wrote:I make a new post out of the long thread, but concerning what you have written about your own dialect. You said "dimlî". Dimlî is an else name for zazayî isn't it ? ? I did not know that there are Zaza in Hakkari... Are there tribes ?


Which long thread? The thread where we discuss proper Kurdish words and Kurdish standarization? :roll:

About your question - This is how it works:

Dimilî - is a federation of tribes - like Shikakî is... But Dimilî only has two tribes in it's system:

Îsa Begî and Dîrî... The latter is a branch of the former... Dîrî are in their roots actually Îsa Begî... And vice Versa - they have broken from eachother...

Anyway there is a theory;

When the Kurds of Hewreman were migrating North-West - and ended up in the region between Wan and Sîwas - some tribes made sendentary settlement along the way too - like the Îsa Begî and the Dîrî... In Colemêrg...

This would explain our closer relation linguistically - as there is more in common between Kurmancî from Colemêrg and Sineyî Soranî - than there is with Sulêmanî/South Soranî...

And Kurmancs in North Kurdistan DO have some trouble understanding Eastern Kurmancs - because of our use of many pure Eastern Kurdish words - from East Kurdistan... And as we know the Northern Kurds haven't realy got too much a grip on Kurdish anyway... (Ps- not their fault) :roll:

Anyway - so what I call the Dimilî dialect of Kurmancî is realy just a sub Kurmancî dialect - whereas Kirmanckî/Zazakî is a different branch of Kurdish altogether - belonging to the Goranî branch of Kurdish - known as South Kurdish - and Central Kurdish being Soranî - while North Kurdish is Kurmancî, respectively...

But the origin of the Dîrî is very controversial - 14 generations ago they were Greek - according to oral traditional tribal history - and they are said to be descendants of the Dorian Tribe - hence the name... Dîrî=Dorî... :)
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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:36 pm

OK I understand, thanks for your explanations. :wink:

And that is right that Northern Kurds say that Kurds in Hakkari are very difficult to understand... :o I did not experiment by myself...
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:48 pm

Piling wrote:OK I understand, thanks for your explanations. :wink:

And that is right that Northern Kurds say that Kurds in Hakkari are very difficult to understand... :o I did not experiment by myself...


Your welcome... And please feel free to ask, if there should ever be anything...

LOL! :lol: Yes - As a Colemêrgî Kurd - I personally - have always known that they have trouble understanding us... I have no problems understanding them, though - their Kurdish is very simple - they tend to use the same expression for a billion things... :shock:

Our Kurdish friends here from Mêrdîn and Niseybîn - they always if not orally - by face expressions show that they don't realy understand... Of course they understand the simple things - but since we don't say "xwe" - and since we don't stress the "r"'s - but on the contrary - we "eat them up" - when they come in the middle/end of words... So the "r" becomes a (very) weak "î" sound instead...

Examples:

English - Standard Kurmancî - Dimilî Kurmancî

Door - Der - Deî
Tree - Dar - Daî

But the BEST example is how we pronounce our own name:

D î r î = D î î . . . :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:57 pm

I must add that I am in a bit different position - though...

My mother is Shikak (Nîsanî tribe)... And Standard Kurmancî is VERY smiliar to Shikakî - maybe they based it on Shikakî (?) - Since it is the second largest Kurdish Subdialect after Kalhorî... :)

There are some funny differences between how my father and mother speak:


English - Dimilî Kurmancî - Shikakî Kurmancî

Speak - Biaxiwe - Qiseke
Like that - Veto - Visa
Why - Bochi - Chire

Pretty different words, ey? :lol:

But the funny thing is the way mom says "hesht" (eight) - she says "esht" So you would expect that she would say "eft" for (seven) - but she says "Heft" with a HARD H! LOL :lol:
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PostAuthor: tomjez » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:58 pm

ca me fait penser à la vigie des pirates dans Asterix

"il n'y a que de la pu'ée de ma''ons ici!"
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:02 pm

tomjez wrote:ca me fait penser à la vigie des pirates dans Asterix

"il n'y a que de la pu'ée de ma''ons ici!"



Come on... Voila man... Translate please... :roll:
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:19 pm

Piling - will you translate what Tom says about Asterix? It seems he has left for the day... :lol:
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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:22 pm

Door - Der - Deî
Tree - Dar - Daî


woao difficult to catch it, if you are not aware !

Speak - Biaxiwe - Qiseke
Like that - Veto - Visa
Why - Bochi - Chire


That's better. Biaxiwe near to axaftin, qiseke like in soranî qise kirdin...
Veto : hum I would not understand immediately. Visa : ok, not far from wisa.

Bochi, ok, like soranî ou kirmanj "ji bo çi ?'
çire : euh... a mix between çima and xira ?

for esht/heft I have no explanation :?

I let Tom translate it... it is a quotation of a French comic "Asterix"... "there is only chestnut purée, there.." with a nigger's accent :

"the'e is only chestnut pu'ée the'e?"
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PostAuthor: tomjez » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:45 pm

I did not translate because some stuff are not funny once translated :?

One character in Asterix is black, and swallows the "r" when he speaks french (and latin), that's all
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:56 pm

tomjez wrote:I did not translate because some stuff are not funny once translated :?

One character in Asterix is black, and swallows the "r" when he speaks french (and latin), that's all



Well... That isn't how my dialect sounds like... Western "swallowing" is not the same as Kurdish swallowing...

Soranî swallow letters all the time... :roll:
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:03 pm

Piling wrote:
Door - Der - Deî
Tree - Dar - Daî


woao difficult to catch it, if you are not aware !

Speak - Biaxiwe - Qiseke
Like that - Veto - Visa
Why - Bochi - Chire


That's better. Biaxiwe near to axaftin, qiseke like in soranî qise kirdin...
Veto : hum I would not understand immediately. Visa : ok, not far from wisa.

Bochi, ok, like soranî ou kirmanj "ji bo çi ?'
çire : euh... a mix between çima and xira ?

for esht/heft I have no explanation :?

I let Tom translate it... it is a quotation of a French comic "Asterix"... "there is only chestnut purée, there.." with a nigger's accent :

"the'e is only chestnut pu'ée the'e?"


Yes... I knew all that already... :roll:

And Chire comes from "Chi" and "re":

"What" ="Chi" - and the "re" is a suffix for "for"...

"What for"... :wink:

And like I said about the "eating up" - it isn't THAT hard to catch... Soranî speakers do it all the time... And unlike what Tom wanted to compare it to - those are two very different things... There is a weak "r" sound and a weak "î"... sound... Kurdish "r" is a fast "r" - English "r" for example is a slow "r"... As in you say it slowly...

Saying the Kurdish "r" makes the toung touch the upper teeth - whereas the English "r" you draw your toung to the back of your mouth...

Like I said... Very differrrrrent... :P
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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:39 pm

Saying the Kurdish "r" makes the toung touch the upper teeth - whereas the English "r" you draw your toung to the back of your mouth...


You know, there isn't a lot of French who could tell the English "r":lol:... perhaps the Kurdish "r" is easier...
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:06 pm

Piling wrote:
Saying the Kurdish "r" makes the toung touch the upper teeth - whereas the English "r" you draw your toung to the back of your mouth...


You know, there isn't a lot of French who could tell the English "r":lol:... perhaps the Kurdish "r" is easier...


Yes - the French "r" is like the Norwegian "r" in Bergen (where I live) - in the Bergensk dialect they pronounce 99% same "r" as the French... :D

Kurdish "r" - is as you know, Piling, at the tip of the tounge... :wink:
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PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:49 am

Yeah that's right, but have never nopticed how I place my tongue for "r" .Moreover when I talked with Kurds from the Northern regions they say me often that I have a "Southern accent", I think they mean Western Kurdistan/perhaps Bohtan, for I stayed a lot in Syria.
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