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Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

Discuss about language(s) in English

Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Johny English » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:18 pm

hevalo27 wrote:@jonny

"s" like seven doesnt exist in kirmancki?


It exists, but I wanted to say that washtene is more original, like rasht is more original than rast.

It was until to Old Indian with "sh", only Old Persian changed it to "s" (Avesta ráshte-, OP ráste-).
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: hevalo27 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:00 am

Johny English wrote:
hevalo27 wrote:@jonny

"s" like seven doesnt exist in kirmancki?


It exists, but I wanted to say that washtene is more original, like rasht is more original than rast.

It was until to Old Indian with "sh", only Old Persian changed it to "s" (Avesta ráshte-, OP ráste-).


could be, but maybe kurmanci maked the same process in the same time, we can not proove because we have no old ancient kurmanci documents.
how was it in the parthian language? i think zazaki and hawrami are the new form of parthian language.

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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Johny English » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:32 pm

In Parthian it was: wxāšten [wxāz-], in Sogdian: xwšt [xwēž°-]
Parthian: rāšt, Sogdian rəšt

Old Kurmanji: *raşt, xweştin, şeşt?

PS: this "wastene" exists only in Dêrsim, in all the other dialects it's: waştene.
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:40 pm

Johny English wrote:In Parthian it was: wxāšten [wxāz-], in Sogdian: xwšt [xwēž°-]
Parthian: rāšt, Sogdian rəšt

Old Kurmanji: *raşt, xweştin, şeşt?

PS: this "wastene" exists only in Dêrsim, in all the other dialects it's: waştene.

Yeh we also say Xwestin, I think it does back up my theory that we are Kurmanjized Hewrami.
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:12 pm

Johny English wrote:In Parthian it was: wxāšten [wxāz-], in Sogdian: xwšt [xwēž°-]
Parthian: rāšt, Sogdian rəšt

Old Kurmanji: *raşt, xweştin, şeşt?

PS: this "wastene" exists only in Dêrsim, in all the other dialects it's: waştene.


wich dialect is the standard dialect? wich dialect say "çitorî rindî?" because we say similar "çirtikî rindî?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3CZZ26UPnk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   
and is this realy a TV channel? if so congratulations.

the right in kurmanci is xwastin with A not xwestin. this is a big fail the kurdish media and litterature write and say.
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:15 pm

jjmuneer wrote:Yeh we also say Xwestin, I think it does back up my theory that we are Kurmanjized Hewrami.


so you accept you are more kurmanji by language? :-D
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:34 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:
jjmuneer wrote:Yeh we also say Xwestin, I think it does back up my theory that we are Kurmanjized Hewrami.


so you accept you are more kurmanji by language? :-D

Lol it isn't, there is influence. Of course it cannot be disregarded as insignifcant, which I did in the beginning, so I admit I made a mistake. None the less it is a Parthian language, historically we have always been closer to them, genetically aswell.
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Johny English » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:18 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:
wich dialect is the standard dialect? wich dialect say "çitorî rindî?" because we say similar "çirtikî rindî?"


'çıturia, rında' is using in the Eastern Dersim and Erzincan dialect.

We western Dersimis (Xozat-Ovacik) say 'sena, rında?' like the other Zazas (senênê, rındê).

No dialect or region is standard, we mixed the most original words of all dialects. You can do this in Kurmanji too. ;)

There are two standards: 1. Vate, 2. Zazaki Institute Frankfurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3CZZ26UPnk
and is this realy a TV channel? if so congratulations.


It's an online TV.
the right in kurmanci is xwastin with A not xwestin. this is a big fail the kurdish media and litterature write and say.


Yes, I know, xwastin is more original, because this Old Iranian -e- changed even in Middle Iranian to -â-, look Avesta xveher "sister" which was in Sogdian xwâr, the rests of it you can see in "xwarzî" (nephew, son/daughter of sister).

Therefore i favor a standardizing via etymological informations.

And also "zindî" is a big disaster, it's a pure persian word. The right Kurmanji were: jindî (also not jînde, because this î is false, it's a short i, look Farsi zinde, Zazaki cınde).
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:54 pm

Johny English wrote:
'çıturia, rında' is using in the Eastern Dersim and Erzincan dialect.

We western Dersimis (Xozat-Ovacik) say 'sena, rında?' like the other Zazas (senênê, rındê).

No dialect or region is standard, we mixed the most original words of all dialects. You can do this in Kurmanji too. ;)

There are two standards: 1. Vate, 2. Zazaki Institute Frankfurt.

Yes, I know, xwastin is more original, because this Old Iranian -e- changed even in Middle Iranian to -â-, look Avesta xveher "sister" which was in Sogdian xwâr, the rests of it you can see in "xwarzî" (nephew, son/daughter of sister).

Therefore i favor a standardizing via etymological informations.

And also "zindî" is a big disaster, it's a pure persian word. The right Kurmanji were: jindî (also not jînde, because this î is false, it's a short i, look Farsi zinde, Zazaki cınde).


yes kurmanci need realy a standard, its only based on east dialect. badinî and west-kurmanci is needed.
you have right in zindi. jiyayî is alternative.

i agree you with standardizing via etymological informations, but not with going so far to old-kurdish.i think all big dialects should be standardized in a way, they will be closer to old-kurdish and closer to each other. example there are zazaki speaker who use -î for 2. person verbs. like i said çitorî. this could be the standard in zazaki to make it closer to the other dialects.

example in standard kurmanci they say: ez jêre dibêjim, but we say "ez pêra tewêm" (i say to him/her). in sorani they say "min pêy ellêm". in standard kurmanci it could be "ez pêra dibêjim" or with V instead of B in bêj.

we use "xang" for sister and "brang" for brother, it comes proably from xwarik and brarik. for want we use "xastin".
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: hevalo27 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:23 pm

we should standardize kurdish but in three languages.

a standard kurmanci for northkurmanci, sorani and southdialects
,
a standard language for hawrami

and

a standard language for kirmancki/zazaki.

in the end kurds have 3 standard languages.

i say this because i dont want that one of them gets completely destroyed.
the standard kurdish languages should sounds soft and fluent, not hard and static.
i dont like the actual standard-kurmanci because there are some dialct wo sounds better.

loanwords should gets removed, if there exist also kurdish words for it.

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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Johny English » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:52 pm

Yes, in Zazaki we use -ê (> -i) for masculine and -ay for feminine. There are also Kurmanj dialects they use still -ê.

@Hevalo

Then you must use things like "xwarin", "kirin" for the standard Kurmanji language. So you can be far from Persian too.

It's very simple and child's play to mix Kurmanji, Sorani and Southern Kurdish.

The basis can be Kurmanjis grammer with the -eke and -im from Sorani.

Like rojeke "the day", navim "my name". But also "navê min". Both should be possible.

And you can take the "w" from SK, wetin "say", waran "rain", ...

Weje "literature" is anyway from SK I believe. ;-)
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:58 pm

Johny English wrote:Yes, in Zazaki we use -ê (> -i) for masculine and -ay for feminine. There are also Kurmanj dialects they use still -ê.

@Hevalo

Then you must use things like "xwarin", "kirin" for the standard Kurmanji language. So you can be far from Persian too.

It's very simple and child's play to mix Kurmanji, Sorani and Southern Kurdish.

The basis can be Kurmanjis grammer with the -eke and -im from Sorani.

Like rojeke "the day", navim "my name". But also "navê min". Both should be possible.

And you can take the "w" from SK, wetin "say", waran "rain", ...

Weje "literature" is anyway from SK I believe. ;-)


we use sometimes "xartin" for eat and "vexartin" for drink. we have lost the XW for X like persian but the RT is bewared better.

RT has changed to RD in all dialects exclusive kurmanci. in kurmanci it has stayed as RT but some words shifts to only R. like kirin. but i heard once some yezidi saying kirtin. the words with RT> bijartin, hejmartin.

şexbizinî a dialect is well bewared dialect between kurmanci and south kurdish. verbs>
kirdin- to do,
dikirim - i do
vitin - to say
keftin - to fall
dikefim - i fall
varan - rain
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:51 am

kurd-sthanam wrote:
Johny English wrote:Yes, in Zazaki we use -ê (> -i) for masculine and -ay for feminine. There are also Kurmanj dialects they use still -ê.

@Hevalo

Then you must use things like "xwarin", "kirin" for the standard Kurmanji language. So you can be far from Persian too.

It's very simple and child's play to mix Kurmanji, Sorani and Southern Kurdish.

The basis can be Kurmanjis grammer with the -eke and -im from Sorani.

Like rojeke "the day", navim "my name". But also "navê min". Both should be possible.

And you can take the "w" from SK, wetin "say", waran "rain", ...

Weje "literature" is anyway from SK I believe. ;-)


we use sometimes "xartin" for eat and "vexartin" for drink. we have lost the XW for X like persian but the RT is bewared better.

RT has changed to RD in all dialects exclusive kurmanci. in kurmanci it has stayed as RT but some words shifts to only R. like kirin. but i heard once some yezidi saying kirtin. the words with RT> bijartin, hejmartin.

şexbizinî a dialect is well bewared dialect between kurmanci and south kurdish. verbs>
kirdin- to do,
dikirim - i do
vitin - to say
keftin - to fall
dikefim - i fall
varan - rain

Kirdin- To do
Ekrim-I do
Ehjhem- I ay
Keftin-To fall
Akefime-I fall
Baran-Rain
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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:13 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:
jjmuneer wrote:I already said Fayli is part of the Gorani language, but Kurd-Snthanam said no it isn't lol. I wonder why Khalori is not classed as a Pahliwani language though, since they are part of the Kurdish fayli tribes.


I know that mehrdad izady say this, but he is alone with saying this. allmost all kurdish and unkurdish historians and linguists agree that feyli, leki, kelhor is closer to kurmanci and sorani and not zazaki and hewrami. :-D



Which linguists say that please? Give me some names. Mehrdad Izady says basically what most big linguists and historians of our time say. Kelhurri is closer to Sorani while Laki build together with Hewrami the Gorani group. Lakis can understand Hewrami but they cant understand pretty much Sorani.

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Re: Kurdistan needs united official Kurdish language

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:19 pm

Oh an please dont come with Paul Ludwig , He is pretty much alone with this claim.

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