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meaning of Prince in Kurdish

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PostAuthor: Rumtaya » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:41 pm

Yes I'm sure they'll do the same for Assyrians and Chaldeans


for Assyrians and Chaldeans

you mean for the Assyrian Nation within the three assyrian religious domination chaldean,orthodoxen and syriac.

well no problem but there should be a contract that we will get some years later indepent just we need first help to rebuild our homes and resatle the Assyrians(chaldeans,syriac,orthdox).

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PostAuthor: heval » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:57 am

Rumtaya wrote:
hmm SHAH is the meaning for the leader or king in Persian or??

and zada i dont know but you guys said child.


Shah means King in Kurdish
Shahjina means Queen in Kurdish
Shahzada means Prince in Kurdish
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PostAuthor: Rumtaya » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:59 am

Shahzada means Prince in Kurdish



Shah= King

Zada=Son????

well thats also Persian word Shah so far as i know cause the King of Persia was called with the title Shah.

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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:36 pm

well "za" or "Zade" in Kurdish means son or daughter. As in Persian. And "king" in Kurdish is "Shah". But "shahjina" in Persian is Shabanu I believe.

Iranian languages have common roots. I suppose that Aramean has much in common with Arab or Hebrew.
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:00 pm

Piling wrote:well "za" or "Zade" in Kurdish means son or daughter. As in Persian. And "king" in Kurdish is "Shah". But "shahjina" in Persian is Shabanu I believe.

Iranian languages have common roots. I suppose that Aramean has much in common with Arab or Hebrew.



Piling - I'm sorry - but please - don't ever hand out our language to anybody... Ban û Banû are Kurdish words! The Persians claim that they are "Old Pahlavi words" - but that is a load of bull - I should tell you that what they call "Old Pahlavi" is GORANÎ/LAKÎ dialect of Kurdish! :wink:

Ban means MAN and Banû means LADY/WOMAN...

My aunt's name is Keîser Banû - "Queen"

The word Shahzada and Shajin shouldn't be taken litterally - they mean what they mean...
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PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:24 am

It is not because Persian say one word that it is not Kurdish too. Bano is used in Bedir Xan's Kurdish grammar. I just noticed that Persian say Shahbano and Shahjina (as it has been written before). I suppose that Shahbano is more correct, for it is a title, so calling a queen "jin" would be a bit rude.
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PostAuthor: heval » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:28 am

Piling wrote:It is not because Persian say one word that it is not Kurdish too. Bano is used in Bedir Xan's Kurdish grammar. I just noticed that Persian say Shahbano and Shahjina (as it has been written before). I suppose that Shahbano is more correct, for it is a title, so calling a queen "jin" would be a bit rude.


No, there is nothing rude about it. Shahjin means Queen.
You are not calling the Queen "jin". Her title is Shahjin. That's one word and it is commonly used in the Kurdish language.
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PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:52 pm

I did not want to mean very "rude". But if we remember the majestuous and divine names giving to eastern sovereign, "jin" is a bit plain. As if it were a common wife . :o Bano has something smarter. It sounds a bit like Xatûn, or Xanim.
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PostAuthor: heval » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:04 pm

Piling wrote:I did not want to mean very "rude". But if we remember the majestuous and divine names giving to eastern sovereign, "jin" is a bit plain. As if it were a common wife . :o Bano has something smarter. It sounds a bit like Xatûn, or Xanim.


LoL, well since it is the Kurdish word for Queen, I guess we Kurds are pretty rude ! :P
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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:33 pm

Actually, Piling - it isn't rude - Kurdish culture is that way - it isn't rude - it is just that the King is more prominent/exclusive than the Queen...

Ban û Banû are Kurdish words - "Old Pahlavi" - which the Persians claim - but which are in reality the language of the SASANIAN KINGS - closely related to Goranî/Lakî...
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PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:57 pm

I won't say that Kurds are rude... their culture isfar from saray (palace) and Kurdish language is more direct, near to life and far from Persian sophistication. In France we say : they call a cat : a cat (or : a spade is a spade in English ?). For a long time, Kurds'language was spoken by peasants or nomads, and their language is less diplomatic than realist and colourful . How could I say ? Persian seems to be a smart and elegant language, but far from real life. Kurdish is more "rustic" and "matter of facts", and its vividimage are funny. It is not a will to say "this one is better than this other". I just stress differences of mentality or cultures.
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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:54 pm

See that is because the Kurdish nation is Aries - while the Persian nation is Cancer...

And, Piling - I advice you to go see the "sophisticated" side of Kurdistan... It is there - but it is harder to get in contact with... The Eshîret culture is more "sophisticated" - but village Kurdistan is more direct and frank...

But you are right, generally Kurdish culture is much more realistic and practicle - while Persian for example is more melodic and dreamy...

But Kurdish is, in my oppinion, much better than any other language for poetry, song and other artistic sides of culture... We have SO many words for things - most things have three or four names in Kurdish! We have a rich language... Maybe because while other people were busy "standarizing" - we were busy preserving what we had so as not to lose it... 8)
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PostAuthor: heval » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:51 am

Piling wrote:Persian seems to be a smart and elegant language, but far from real life.


Well actually, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Persian language but I will tell you that many of the words they use today are actually Arabic words pronounced with a Persian accent. The Arabic words they use have become part of the Persian language as the Persian counterpart to the word has been long and forgotten (whereas in Kurdish, Kurds can always replace an Arabic word they may have a habit of using with a Kurdish word).

So, had the Persians not adopted these Arabic words and incorporated them into their language, there is a possibility that Persian would be rustic and a matter of facts as well.
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PostAuthor: Piling » Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:51 pm

I am not Persian speaker, but I think (but I am not sure) that Persian has been influenced at 30% by Arab.
Kurdish ? For old literature (Xanî, Cizirî, etc.) the most should be 15%, often less.

Don't mistake : I don't say that Kurdish has less value than Persian, etc. At the contrary. I like the vivid energy and realism of Kurdish language, even if sometimes it is funny. But I don't believe that it is only a question of arabization or not. For centuries, Kurdish was a peasant/nomads 'language. (AND I ADORE KOC,ER's CULTURE). So it is nearer of life than sophistic Persian urban scholars. But there is other similar aspects : during the Middle Age, in Eastern Iran as in Northern Mesopotamia, there were fine fabrics of bronze works : in Khorasan works were very smart, elegant, as an art of court, but in Northern Mesopotamia, art is full of nice and vivid portraits (hunters, animals, singers, warroirs, etc).

In "Mem and Zîn" we have the same coexistence of "idealistic" characters, as sufi lovers, and many vivid and colorful description of Kurdish Newroz, youth's dances, lovers, wizards, etc.

So it is not a 100% scientist assertion, but it seems that Kurdish art cares more to represent human life and nature than Persian's. As Shakespeare is more "rustic" and universal than French authors like Racine and Corneille. And according to me Shakespeare is a universal genius, as Ahmedê Xanî. Or Charlie Chaplin. How could I explain ? everybody, Chinese or American, or Javanese people are able to like a Charlie Chaplin's story. For it is universal. Human. I think that everybody could like Mem and Zîn's story. When I translate it in French I saw it. It is a moving story, even for French reader. Because Xanî's art expresses simple feelings of Mr everybody, and his topic concerns everybody. But when I red Nizami it was not the same emotion. It was well written but motion less.

SO WHEN I SAY THAT KURDISH IS A RUSTIC (GUNDI'S) LANGUAGE IT IS A COMPLIMENT ! UNDERSTAND ???
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PostAuthor: heval » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:39 pm

Piling wrote:SO WHEN I SAY THAT KURDISH IS A RUSTIC (GUNDI'S) LANGUAGE IT IS A COMPLIMENT ! UNDERSTAND ???


Thanks for that wonderful and in-depth explanation, but I was not offended at all by your description of Kurdish being a rustic language. I was just pointing out that the Persian language in many areas where it is similar to Kurdish is the same way, whereas the major differences come from where Persian contains Arabic words.

Thanks. :D
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