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Translating from sorani

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:54 pm

no brother - its not nationalism - its blind love :D
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Re: Translating from sorani

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:56 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:thanks for the help, now im understand why i'm always hearin LE in sorani :).


to you (ji te re)---- bo to (or) bot - shortened version just like lém -

how do you say f.x: i have a gift for you - hediyeyekê min ji te re heye)
*man you use a lot of arabic words hediye in kurdish is Dyarí
dyaríyekim bo to heye or dyaríyekim bot heye

what then with these verbs:

go (here)
i go (ez diçim/ez diherim) ---------- min derom- min dechim
i will go (ezê biçim/ezê herim)------min derom- min dechim (no future tense) although I thought future tense is by "dé" like ez déchim ... well if you mean the subjunctive form we also say min birom- min bichim... although this isn't future
i went (ez çûbûm) ---------- min roshtim-min chúm
i was going (ez diçûyam)--------------- min deroshtim- min dechúm
i should have gone (ezê biçûyama)
min biroshtmaye (min roshtibimaye)- min bichúmaye (min chúbmaye)

*the conjugation of a verb in past tense depends on wether the verb is transtive or intransitive see:

Intransitive: rosht-go
Min roshtim-------------I went
To roshtít---------------You(s) went
ew rosht-------------------------he-she went
éme roshtín------------we went
ewe roshtin------------You(p) went
ewan roshtin-----------They went

Tranitive: xward- ate
min xwardim---------I ate
To xwardit-----------You(S) ate
Ew xwardiy-----------he-she ate
éme xwardman------We ate
éwe xwardtan--------You(P) ate
ewan xwardyan-----------They ate


while if a transitive verb has an object with it, the bound pronouns go upon the object, let's take (nan) bread
min nanim xward
to nanit xward
ew naniy xward
éme nanman xward
éwe nantan xward
ewan nanyan xward

you get it??? :D

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:31 pm

spas.

diyari-hediye. OK. Is QET (never) a arabic world? because in kurmancî i have never heard "hîç". (Roj TV says qet)
but you use also many arabic words such as "eql" or "qise kirdin", in kurmancî it is, "hiş", deng kirin or axavtin.

I will go - Ezê biçim/herim - this is more standard, but some regions says "ez dê biçim/herim" or "ez wê biçim/herim" and some uses both -ê and -a for masculin and feminin "ezê herim(m) and eza herim(f). (or tuyê herî - tuya herî - you will go) but i dont know if others say "ez dêçim"

At this point turkish has similarities with sorani in gramatic points, is it also like that in persian?:

Tranitive: xward- ate
min xwardim---------I ate ----------- min xwar------(ben) yedim
To xwardit-----------You(S) ate ----- te xwar--------(sen) yedin
Ew xwardiy-----------he-she ate ---- wî/wê xwar----(o) yedi
éme xwardman------We ate ---------me xwar--------(biz) yedik
éwe xwardtan--------You(P) ate-----we xwar---------(siz) yediniz
ewan xwardyan-----------They ate---wan xwar-------(onlar) yediler


while if a transitive verb has an object with it, the bound pronouns go upon the object, let's take (nan) bread
min nanim xward
to nanit xward
ew naniy xward
éme nanman xward
éwe nantan xward
ewan nanyan xward

in kurmanci, funny its not like this and most languages :D its "(min,te,wî/wê,me,we,wan) + nanê xwe xwar" all the way

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:04 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:spas.

diyari-hediye. OK. Is QET (never) a arabic world? because in kurmancî i have never heard "hîç". (Roj TV says qet)
but you use also many arabic words such as "eql" or "qise kirdin", in kurmancî it is, "hiş", deng kirin or axavtin.

I will go - Ezê biçim/herim - this is more standard, but some regions says "ez dê biçim/herim" or "ez wê biçim/herim" and some uses both -ê and -a for masculin and feminin "ezê herim(m) and eza herim(f). (or tuyê herî - tuya herî - you will go) but i dont know if others say "ez dêçim"

At this point turkish has similarities with sorani in gramatic points, is it also like that in persian?:

Tranitive: xward- ate
min xwardim---------I ate ----------- min xwar------(ben) yedim
To xwardit-----------You(S) ate ----- te xwar--------(sen) yedin
Ew xwardiy-----------he-she ate ---- wî/wê xwar----(o) yedi
éme xwardman------We ate ---------me xwar--------(biz) yedik
éwe xwardtan--------You(P) ate-----we xwar---------(siz) yediniz
ewan xwardyan-----------They ate---wan xwar-------(onlar) yediler


while if a transitive verb has an object with it, the bound pronouns go upon the object, let's take (nan) bread
min nanim xward
to nanit xward
ew naniy xward
éme nanman xward
éwe nantan xward
ewan nanyan xward

in kurmanci, funny its not like this and most languages :D its "(min,te,wî/wê,me,we,wan) + nanê xwe xwar" all the way


well the way we speak is very different from the way we write..... well qed is like i said not the formal written way... we say (hergíz)... qed is not arabic. but in arabic qed is used for something else to ensure a verb. and in kurdish we say i have never not went * which means i have never went -the same as persian.... so maybe that's how it has come to use into kurdish first to ensure negative verbs but then became never (i am not sure though)
eql- meshk
qise kirdin- axawtin ... we have found kurdish words for almost every arabic word and replaced them in writting... and know we can see even in our talking those arabic words are disappearing... the reason we still use (qise kirdin) in our writing is because it has been thought that qise kirdin comes from قصة which is arabic for story, qise kirdin is like story-telling=talking....BUT later on i forget how it was exactly but this man said that it is NOT actually an arabic word, it actually comes from an old europian word, you can't really be sure, but that's why it hasn't been removed yet/

ezé-eza-tuyé-tuya that's actually cool to even distinguish between first person gender(sorani never distinguishes even for 3rd person like farsi) ... well what accent is this?? what city? because the kirmanji we learn in school is nothing like this?
actually from what I know turkish has been affected a lot by persian grammatically, and sorani and persian are very close grammaticaly. In farsi you do conjugate transitive verbs except you use the same pronouns you would use intransitive
raftam-rafti-raft-raftim-raftid-raftand(went)
xordam-xordi-xord-xordim-xordid-xordand(ate)

actually this is something only sorani has, which is really strange how it came to be? so do you understand this:
min xemim xward u xemish xwéní jigermiy xward.
:D

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:43 pm

ocmentos wrote:well the way we speak is very different from the way we write..... well qed is like i said not the formal written way... we say (hergíz)... qed is not arabic. but in arabic qed is used for something else to ensure a verb. and in kurdish we say i have never not went * which means i have never went -the same as persian.... so maybe that's how it has come to use into kurdish first to ensure negative verbs but then became never (i am not sure though)
eql- meshk
qise kirdin- axawtin ... we have found kurdish words for almost every arabic word and replaced them in writting... and know we can see even in our talking those arabic words are disappearing... the reason we still use (qise kirdin) in our writing is because it has been thought that qise kirdin comes from قصة which is arabic for story, qise kirdin is like story-telling=talking....BUT later on i forget how it was exactly but this man said that it is NOT actually an arabic word, it actually comes from an old europian word, you can't really be sure, but that's why it hasn't been removed yet/

ezé-eza-tuyé-tuya that's actually cool to even distinguish between first person gender(sorani never distinguishes even for 3rd person like farsi) ... well what accent is this?? what city? because the kirmanji we learn in school is nothing like this?
actually from what I know turkish has been affected a lot by persian grammatically, and sorani and persian are very close grammaticaly. In farsi you do conjugate transitive verbs except you use the same pronouns you would use intransitive
raftam-rafti-raft-raftim-raftid-raftand(went)
xordam-xordi-xord-xordim-xordid-xordand(ate)

actually this is something only sorani has, which is really strange how it came to be? so do you understand this:
min xemim xward u xemish xwéní jigermiy xward.
:D


in google-translater i'm translatin "never" to قط , in arabic :S

ezê/eza, tuyê/tuya that is what I use in my native sub-dialect. its spoken in western parts of kurdistan (south for zazaki speakers), in central anatolia. its the kurmanji wich alevi kurds and some yezidi kurds speak. the caucasian kurds and khorasan kurds speak also very similar. (distance between central anatolia and khorasan distance: min. 2500 km)

we speak with thick accent, we pronounce E as E in sorani, Ê as E in standard kurmanji, A as O in "JOIN" in english.
compared with standard kurmancî:
ezî/ezê mazinim - ez mazinim - (i am old)
tuyî(tü)/tuyê(tö) mazinî - tu mazinî
ewî/ewê mazine - ew mazine
emê mazininî - em kurdin
ewê mazinine - ew kurdin
hûnê mazinine - hûn kurdin

but we say this is only, when the word MAZIN is adjective or verb. when it is noun its just like standard kurmancî.

we have also a similar gramatic rule like -aka in sorani, but we have -î and -ê for masculin and feminine:
lawk-î digrîye (the boy cries)
keçk-ê digrîye (the girl cries)
kurik-ê digrîne (the children cries)

we speak also with 4 different izafe cases, instead of 2 in standard kurmancî:
meresê min anî - (he/she/it has brought my shoe) --- meresî min anî (my shoe has brought him/her/it)
pirtuka min anî - (he/she/it has brought my book) ---- pirtukê min anî (my book has brought him/her/it)

raftam-rafti-raft-raftim-raftid-raftand(went)
xordam-xordi-xord-xordim-xordid-xordand(ate) -- is it not like this with all southern dialects?

min xemim xward u xemish xwéní jigermiy xward. - only understand min xemim xward - i have eaten my "problem"? :)

try to say this 3 times a row: rê ji rivi rivî, rivi ji rê rivî (the fox ran away from the way and the way ran away from the fox) :D
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:05 pm

at least something normal on the forum.
transitive and intransitive are my nightmare - but i know what to do with them, the only problem i have is that sometimes i dont know which one belongs to which group :lol:

by the way - if you guys have problem with this language - how can i learn it???
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:46 pm

in google-translater i'm translatin "never" to قط , in arabic :S

**that's actually true!! my mind didn't go to that because we say qe"d", i guess it has changed over the decades
ezê/eza, tuyê/tuya that is what I use in my native sub-dialect. its spoken in western parts of kurdistan (south for zazaki speakers), in central anatolia. its the kurmanji wich alevi kurds and some yezidi kurds speak. the caucasian kurds and khorasan kurds speak also very similar. (distance between central anatolia and khorasan distance: min. 2500 km)

** yeh i heard that the kirmanj in western Iran were forcefully removed to that far away part,, that is probably why they are similar.
we speak with thick accent, we pronounce E as E in sorani, Ê as E in standard kurmanji, A as O in "JOIN" in english.
compared with standard kurmancî:

do you have any song sth i could listen to from that accent??
ezî/ezê mazinim - ez mazinim - (i am old)
tuyî(tü)/tuyê(tö) mazinî - tu mazinî
ewî/ewê mazine - ew mazine
emê mazininî - em kurdin
ewê mazinine - ew kurdin
hûnê mazinine - hûn kurdin

but we say this is only, when the word MAZIN is adjective or verb. when it is noun its just like standard kurmancî.

*mezin in sorani means Great as in prestigious , i get it, that's strange in sorani we son't say em, we say éme maybe we got it from this dialect? I heard that actually the kirmanji of turkey was once much closer to us than the duhoki accent in iraq...
we have also a similar gramatic rule like -aka in sorani, but we have -î and -ê for masculin and feminine:
lawk-î digrîye (the boy cries)
keçk-ê digrîye (the girl cries)
kurik-ê digrîne (the children cries)*******************the children cry ;)

see it is actually closer to sorani than the one we have, ye please send me a song i wanna see for myself (btw is é both for fem. and plural?)
we speak also with 4 different izafe cases, instead of 2 in standard kurmancî:
meresê min anî - (he/she/it has brought my shoe) --- meresî min anî (my shoe has brought him/her/it)
pirtuka min anî - (he/she/it has brought my book) ---- pirtukê min anî (my book has brought him/her/it)

intersting.....
raftam-rafti-raft-raftim-raftid-raftand(went)
xordam-xordi-xord-xordim-xordid-xordand(ate) -- is it not like this with all southern dialects?

like kelhuri en stuf?
min xemim xward u xemish xwéní jigermiy xward. - only understand min xemim xward - i have eaten my "problem"? :)

hhh when we say I worried we use this compund verb xem-xwardin instead of xem-kirdin or sth.... so this poem plays on this... I woried (min xemim xward) (u) means (and) (xem+ish= worry also) (xwení jigerm = the blood of my liver) so if you take it literaly it means (I ate worry while worry ate the blood of my liver) hhhhh :D which means while I was worrying, I didn't know that worrying in itself kills you and eats you away, so don't worry it's not a good thing ;)
try to say this 3 times a row: rê ji rivi rivî, rivi ji rê rivî (the fox ran away from the way and the way ran away from the fox) :D

hhhh that's nice, i love how it is so shortened in sorani it would be réwí le ré ray-kird, ré le réwí ray-kird hhhh what do you know this one is just as hard :D

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:47 pm

at least something normal on the forum.
transitive and intransitive are my nightmare - but i know what to do with them, the only problem i have is that sometimes i dont know which one belongs to which group :lol:

by the way - if you guys have problem with this language - how can i learn it???

hhh how can't you seperate them it's easy just try to add an object eg: min roshtim- min tom rosht (wrong= intransitive) min sutandim- min tom sutand (right=transitive) ..... if you have anything you want to learn just tell me, i'll give you a two page lecture hh :D by the way are you a kurd from slemani? you don't speak kurdish,, i can't get your story??

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:17 pm

i am kurdish, not Kurd - wired, i know. i became kurdish about two years ago, it happened because i fall in love with Kurdistan, kurdish people, who saved my life many times, when i was completly broken, with kurdfish culture, music, food, history, everything. i used to say i am Hewlery, but i think i shouldnt connect myself only to one city, so i am saying i am Kurdistani.
at the moment my mind is too busy with my trip to Kurdistan - i still cant believe i will see what i love the most in my life, but when i will be back - if nobody will kill me there :? - i will appreciate your help in language. but if you can use sorani writing it would be more easy for me, coz i am getting confuse with kurmandji writing (latin) - i am learning sorani coz most of my brothers, whom i know personally are sorani and aslo i think its more ease than kurmandji - but i can say at least - nave me Kulka e and ez ji kurdim :D
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:33 pm

Kulka wrote:i am kurdish, not Kurd - wired, i know. i became kurdish about two years ago, it happened because i fall in love with Kurdistan, kurdish people, who saved my life many times, when i was completly broken, with kurdfish culture, music, food, history, everything. i used to say i am Hewlery, but i think i shouldnt connect myself only to one city, so i am saying i am Kurdistani.
at the moment my mind is too busy with my trip to Kurdistan - i still cant believe i will see what i love the most in my life, but when i will be back - if nobody will kill me there :? - i will appreciate your help in language. but if you can use sorani writing it would be more easy for me, coz i am getting confuse with kurmandji writing (latin) - i am learning sorani coz most of my brothers, whom i know personally are sorani and aslo i think its more ease than kurmandji - but i can say at least - nave me Kulka e and ez ji kurdim :D

جێی شانازییه‌ بۆ ئێمه‌ که‌ به‌ تۆ بڵیین کورد خانم گیان، هیوادارم که‌ کاتێکی خۆش به‌سه‌ر ببه‌ت له‌ کوردستان، بۆ چ شارێك به‌ته‌مایت بڕۆیت؟

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:57 pm

zor supas brakam, i also hope it will be the best time of my life. i am flying to Hewler, hopefully i will be able to see Bexal and Rawanduz, i would like to see Duhok and Zaxo (but its not for sure at the moment) and i will go to Suleymani as well.
i am still so much scared, that something wrong will be with ticket and my reservation and they dont let me to get into airplain. i they will stop me from going i will blow up the airport in manchester !!!
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: ocmentos » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:04 pm

Kulka wrote:zor supas brakam, i also hope it will be the best time of my life. i am flying to Hewler, hopefully i will be able to see Bexal and Rawanduz, i would like to see Duhok and Zaxo (but its not for sure at the moment) and i will go to Suleymani as well.
i am still so much scared, that something wrong will be with ticket and my reservation and they dont let me to get into airplain. i they will stop me from going i will blow up the airport in manchester !!!

hahaha believe me it is not that exciting! hhh well I hope it would be for you... when you come to slemani you could even go to saray azadi :D

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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:07 pm

ocmentos wrote:

do you have any song sth i could listen to from that accent??
ezî/ezê mazinim - ez mazinim - (i am old)
tuyî(tü)/tuyê(tö) mazinî - tu mazinî
ewî/ewê mazine - ew mazine
emê mazininî - em kurdin
ewê mazinine - ew kurdin
hûnê mazinine - hûn kurdin

but we say this is only, when the word MAZIN is adjective or verb. when it is noun its just like standard kurmancî.

*mezin in sorani means Great as in prestigious , i get it, that's strange in sorani we son't say em, we say éme maybe we got it from this dialect?

i wrote first KURDIN and forgot to replace it with mezin, it should be mezin instead of mazin all the way, i was confused with my accent were we say it thick as mazin. in standard writing its mezin. mezin means old or great in kurmanci. but right many in north use not the world "kurd" to refer them selfe, but just uses "kurmanc", also to refer southern kurds, "kurmancên bashurê".

-î (the) is used for masculin, -ê (the) for plural and feminin

yes there are some similarities with sorani, but I think duhok and the standard are more close to sorani. example most kurmanji speakers say: chawaní bashí? in sorani: choní bashí? but in west-kurmanji dialects you say:
chirgí/chingí/chitoní? (how are you?) chir dikí(what are you doing?) ratí/rindí (are you find?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsXbbIAENbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY9bNGItHLY (with some turkish words, but funny :))

but there are a dialect called shéxbiziní, who are between west kurmancí and southern dialects, like a mising link. they use not "LE" but "JE" like kurmanji but speak like sorani in many ways. like a missing link :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nlI1Sz1-E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

where do you learn kurdish at school?
Last edited by kurd-sthanam on Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:13 pm

kulka you are more lucky than me, im a kurd born outside of kurdistan and never seen kurdistan.

there is a company who make turistic fly's to bakur in this newroz. they take you to bakuri cities with hotel and all. plus biggest newroz party in whole word, newroz with 1 million kurds in Amed. the reclames are in ROJ TV
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Re: Translating from sorani

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:24 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:kulka you are more lucky than me, im a kurd born outside of kurdistan and never seen kurdistan.

there is a company who make turistic fly's to bakur in this newroz. they take you to bakuri cities with hotel and all. plus biggest newroz party in whole word, newroz with 1 million kurds in Amed. the reclames are in ROJ TV


i cant go to bakur with kurdish flag coz our dear donkeys... ups, turks will put me in nice turkish prison :lol: - but you should told me before, i would take you to bashur.
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