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The Kurmanji Ez.

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The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: KurdiBoy » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:32 am

Why do Kurmanji Kurds say ez sometimes and then min sometimes?

And wouldnt one just be enough? :D
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The Kurmanji Ez.

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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:52 am

KurdiBoy wrote:Why do Kurmanji Kurds say ez sometimes and then min sometimes?

And wouldnt one just be enough? :D


Dirod u Silaw Kake, eger kemasi nebe eto dabe be Kurdi Sorani qise keyt, wa niye? 8)

Kake giyan le hemu zimanekani Hind-Ewropi da du batek ya haleti rek u chewtman bo bernaw (Zemir) heye. Bo nimune le Inglizi da delen "I" belam bateke chewtekani debete "me" ya "my" ya "mine". LE zimane kewnekani Eranish da her wa buwe we emroj geyishtuwete zimani Kurdi (be taybet Kurdi Bakur-Kirmanci) bellam le Sorani u Kurdi Bashur da teda chuwe. Her wesa Kurdekan Bakur delen:

Rek (Direkt) : Chewt (Oblique)

ez : min
tu : te
ew : wi (nerine), we (mayine)

em : me
hun, hingo : we
ew, ewan : wan

ev (em) : vi (nerine), ve (mayine)

Em bateke rek u chewtane le'm katane be kar den:

le kati leker kirdin da hemishe bateki rek be kar dehenin:

ez dichim (min dechim), ez dixwem (min dexom), etc.

bellam le kati leker ser kesek kar bikiret yan bateki hebuni bibet ya kati rabirdu debe chewtekan be kar bihenin:

min chu (min chum), te chu (to chuyt), wi/we chu (ew zelame ya ew kcihe chu), me chu (eme chuyn), etc.

ez te dibinim (min to debinim), ez ve pertok dixwinim (min em pertuke/kitebe dexwenim), tu ji we hez dikey (to ewit xosh dewe), ew min nixwaze (ew hezi le min niye), etc.

mala min (mali min), deste te (desti to), jiyana me (jiyani eme), chaven we pirr bedewin (chawekani ew kiche zor cuwanin), welate we (wilati ewe), etc.(her weha le Kurdi Bakur da bo "izafe" nerine u mayineman heye: ew wusheyane wa nerine ben "-e" degrin ewanishe wa mayinen "-a" degrin, bo nimune "chav" wusheyki nerine ye "chav-e te" ~ "chawi to", bellam "kech" mayine ye "kecha wi" ~ "kichekey, kenishkekey", bo nerine u mayine buni wushekani sheweyki taybetman niye becge le penaw hendekyan da bo nimune hemu lekerekan mayinen "standard kirin-a Kurdi", "kushtin-a mirovan", etc. hemu endamekani leshi mirovish wa cutin debine nerine: chav-e te, dest-e min, etc.)
But when the prayer is over then disperse abroad in the land and seek the grace of God, and remember God much, that you may be successful.
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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:57 am

this "ez"

comes from avesta "ezêm", in old persian "edêm" and was in parthian "ez".

this "ezêm" of avesta comes directly from Proto-Indoeuropean "eghom" and is in relation with latin "ego".

look also here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_D ... do#k_.2F_g


Why comes sometimes "ez" and why "min"?

In the past times "min" will be to "ez", and "ez" will be to "min" in transitive verbes. this is the ergative.

example:

ez dikim = i do
min kir = i did

Ez dibînim = i see
min dît = i saw

Ez dibim = I bring
Min bir = I brought

ez dichim = i go
ez chûme = i went

You can "make something", "see something", "bring something", but no "go something".

Transitive: If you can make "something" with the verb.

Tu min dikushî = You kill me
Te ez kushtim = You killed me

"Tu" (Rectus) will be to "Te" (Obliquus)
"min" (Obliquus) will be to "ez" (rectus
and the verb "kusht" get the ending of "ez"

obliquus >>> rectus
rectus >>> obliqus

Sorani, Kelhuri and Hewrami did lost the pronome "ez". And Persian did lost "ed".

Therefore this languages do use always "min" or "men", because they don't know "ez" today.

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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:03 am

min chu (min chum), te chu (to chuyt), wi/we chu (ew zelame ya ew kcihe chu), me chu (eme chuyn), etc.

you made here a mistake kek emanoel.

"chûn" isn't a transitive verb, it is a intransitive verb, therefore here "ez" doesnt cahnge to "min".

only in transitive verbs the ergative comes.

ez dixwim = i eat
min xwar = i ate

Ez dixwazim = i want
min xwast = i wanted

Ez dibêjim = i say
min got = i said

because, you can EAT SOMETHING, you can WANT SOMETHING, you can SAY SOMETHING.

but you can NOT "go something"

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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: KurdiBoy » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:56 pm

zor spas Johny Bravo u Emanoelkurdistani
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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:24 pm

KurdiBoy wrote:zor spas Johny Bravo u Emanoelkurdistani

no problem, are you sorani-speaker?

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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: KurdiBoy » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:28 pm

Johny Bravo wrote:
KurdiBoy wrote:zor spas Johny Bravo u Emanoelkurdistani

no problem, are you sorani-speaker?


bale, ay to?
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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:10 am

@ KurdiBoy

Qabeleki niya kaka, agar komakek la dastem bar bet khwashlah abom. :)

@Johny Bravo

yes buddy u're right, I was mistaken.
U know, our-Sorani speakers troubles in speaking Kurmanci contain this difference between "direct" and "oblique" cases which doesnt exist in Southern dialects. Also anouther trouble is using "li .. de" or "di ... de"; in South we only use "le ... da" except some sub-dialects which only use "de ... da" instead of "le ,,, da". Another-maybe the bigest trouble is the difference between feminine and masculine. You know there is no general rules for this "mala min", "chave we", "birindar kirina serbazan". This also exist in Kirmancki and just follows higher degrees of trouble cuz it's not just in case "izafe" but in grammar too! "O wazeno bimano, labele a nimanena"!! It's terrible man!! (kidding 8).
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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:14 am

KurdiBoy wrote:
Johny Bravo wrote:
KurdiBoy wrote:zor spas Johny Bravo u Emanoelkurdistani

no problem, are you sorani-speaker?


bale, ay to?


ez zaza yan. i am zaza
8)

O wazeno bimano, labele a nimanena"


The most Zazas use "nê" and "nê" is anyway older, so nêmanena were more right.

Anyway in the Vate- and Zazaki-Institute Standard its also "nêmanena" for femine.

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Re: The Kurmanji Ez.

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:32 am

i think, you meaned in the first part also the feminine, therefore the sentence is suchwise right:

A wazena bimano, labele a nêmanena


Only in the conjungtive the masculine ending comes for the third person singular.

so the only terrible thing is the conjungtive ending for the feminine. if you mean "she", then you have also to write "she".

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