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Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

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Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: rachel » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:37 am

hello there everyone...my name is rachel and i am an english girl due to give birth to a half kurdish baby in october. i am very good with languages and already know some basic words. could someone teach me first the verbs 'i have' and 'i am'? some help with pronunciation would be great too

zor supas

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Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Diri » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:22 am

See: http://northerniraq.info/forums/viewtop ... f=15&t=523

For the Kurdish alphabet...


I think we should first learn the pronouns and simple particles...


I = Ez
You = Tu / Te (depends on context)
He = Wi /Ew
She = Wê / Ew
It = doesn't exist in Kurdish...
They = Ew / Wan (depends on context)
We = Em / Me (depends on context)
You = We / Hûn (depends on context)



To be = Hebûn

Or = yan

Not to be = Nebûn

:) Just had to...


In Kurmancî, we do not have "To be" or "To have" in the same sense that they exist in English or other European languages... In Kurdish, the latter verb takes form as suffixes to adjectives... While the former ("to have") alternates between "Heye" (singular) and "Hene" (plural)...

"To have" and "To be" have the same root:

To have/To be = Hebûn



I am = Ez'im
You are = Tu'yî
He/she it is = Ew'e
They are = Ew'in
We are = Em'in
You are = Ew'in

"To have" as mentioned only exists in singular and plural form - and THAT is decided by the number of determinators or the quantity of that one determiner (usually nouns):

Malên me hene = We have houses (plural)
Literal rendition: Houses we have
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Hebun yan nebun

PostAuthor: rachel » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:54 pm

ooh thanks so much sohrab that will keep me going for at least a little while. so, the language you are teaching me is close to Bahdini, or is Bahdini?

I am so happy that you have both the skill, the time and the will to help me at this level. I was beginning to think I should give up on my plan!

zor supas

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Re: Hebun yan nebun

PostAuthor: Diri » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:23 pm

rachel wrote:ooh thanks so much sohrab that will keep me going for at least a little while. so, the language you are teaching me is close to Bahdini, or is Bahdini? whilst i was together with my baby''s father i heard a lot of Bahdini spoken and so can't be sure what i was hearing, but i'm pretty positive he used to say 'Ez yi' for 'I am'. Could i be imagining this? Although born in Mosel he came from a smallish town near Duhok and also near Zaxo, if that helps to give you any idea of accent/dialect. He once taught me 'I am happy' and 'You are happy', and I am sure i remember these phrases as 'Ez yi khayfem' (excuse the spelling) and 'Du yi khayfi.' Is this right?

I am so happy that you have both the skill, the time and the will to help me at this level. I was beginning to think I should give up on my plan!

zor supas

rachel



Hello Rachel dear... No problem :)

I suggest you study the make-up and history of Kurdish language...

Kurdish has two languages: Kurdmancî and Pehlewanî.

Let me illustrate:



¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤_____KURDISH_____
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤Kurdmanc¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤Pehlewan¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤______|_____¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤______|_______________________________
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤Kurmanc¤¤¤¤¤Soran¤¤¤¤¤¤Goran¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤Zazakî ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤____________|____ ¤¤¤¤____|____¤¤¤ ____|____ ¤¤¤¤¤¤____|____ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤|
¤¤¤¤¤¤Badîn¤ŞikakAmedî¤ErdelanBabanî¤KelhûrLekDimil¤¤Kirmanck¤¤¤¤¤Hewramî



What you call "Bahdini" (correct: "Badînî") is one of the sub-dialects of Kurmancî (as you see from my illustration)...

Badînan is the name of a region in Kurdistan - right north of Mosul... "Badînanî" or "Badînî" is the same as "Badidanish" or "Badinian" - that is why we put an "-î" as a suffix...

Let me clear up a couple of suffixes in Kurdish, while I'm at it:

Kurdî - English
-î ===== -ish / -ian (in e.g. "Kurd-ish" = "Kurd-î") = to convert nouns into adjectives
-wan/-ban === -er / -ian (in e.g. "Work-er" = "Kar-wan") = to form verbs etc. into nouns - usually indicates occupation...
-tî/-dî ==== -ness /-dom (in e.g. "Kurdishness" = "Kurditî"/"Kurdayetî") = to convert adjectives into nouns


As for "Ez yi" = "Ez dê" or "Ezê" or "Ezyê" - this is the futurum form: "I will"... It's a subject ("Ez") + verb ("ê"/"dê"/"yê") which is mono-transitive (in e.g. the sentence is incomplete without a direct object)... :)

And:

"Ez yi khayfem" = ""Ez yê keyfim" = "I am happy"
"Du yi khayfi" = "Tu yê keyfî" = "You are happy"

Saying "keyfi" is more Arabic than Kurdish... The correct thing to say (and which all Kurds will understand) is:

Ez keyf xweşim = I am happy
Tu keyf xweşî = You are happy

In Badînî, they say "Xoş", not "Xweş" (English: "Xwash")

I forgot to mention: My own sub-dialect of Kurmancî is Colemêrgî - which is the one closest and most related to Badînî... The difference between the two is as little as between Leeds English and York English... Or Canterbury and Dover English... VERY small differences... :)

BUT - I don't write things in dialect... I usually write in a "sort of standard" Kurmancî - although there is no official Kurmancî standard... My vocabulary, though - also embraces words specific to Badînan... So don't worry... :)

Xoş = Good
Keyf = Mood/Happiness

:)

Hope this post has been of interest and information...
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Hebun yan nebun

PostAuthor: Barış » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:49 pm

Ez keyf xweşim! :D
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Re: thanks guys

PostAuthor: rachel » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:32 am

and thankyou so much sohrab - chony, bashi? - for all that help your effort is priceless. i just wrote you a long mail but it got wiped. i'll try and cover the essence of it quickly before i go to bed.

'x' and 'q' sounds: i'm confused about these and find i am pronouncing them the same. can you explain them again and illuminate the difference?

it was so interesting to see badini in the language tree.

if i want to turn something into a question, do i simply use my voice? tu'yi sohrab? tu'yi kurdi? tu keyf xosi?

i wonder if you could teach me some simple nouns, some nationalities, some colours, and some feelings that i can use now to build small sentences with the verbs i am learning?

you are helpful, and i am lucky. i read tonight that three syrian kurds were killed yesterday. and yesterday for easter i was rolling eggs in the snow...

zor supas, shav bash

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PostAuthor: Diri » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:30 pm

rachel wrote:and thankyou so much sohrab - chony, bashi? - for all that help your effort is priceless. i just wrote you a long mail but it got wiped. i'll try and cover the essence of it quickly before i go to bed.

'x' and 'q' sounds: i'm confused about these and find i am pronouncing them the same. can you explain them again and illuminate the difference?

it was so interesting to see badini in the language tree.

if i want to turn something into a question, do i simply use my voice? tu'yi sohrab? tu'yi kurdi? tu keyf xosi?

i wonder if you could teach me some simple nouns, some nationalities, some colours, and some feelings that i can use now to build small sentences with the verbs i am learning?

you are helpful, and i am lucky. i read tonight that three syrian kurds were killed yesterday. and yesterday for easter i was rolling eggs in the snow...

zor supas, shav bash

rachel



Hello Rachel - başim, sipas... Tu çanî? (standard: çawanî)

I'm really sorry for the late reply, but I've been away... I was in Copenhagen this weekend - for a Newroz party... :lol: Yeah, I know - it's a strange thing to fly off to another country just to be at a party... :lol: I had loads of fun, though... :)

Now - let me see how I can help you out...

X and Q are very distinctly different... The X sound is simply how English natives pronounce Ahmed as "Akhmed". It's also the sound found in "Khan" - which is a common Indian and Pakistani surname... But it's not pronounced "Kaan" - rather as "Khan" just as "H" is pronounced as "Kh" in "Ahmed"...

As for Q, I'm sorry to say it's impossible for me to explain how this sound is made... And it is impossible for anybody else to explain it too - since one can only understand its quality if one hears it personally... SO... How do I explain it - unless you already know it... Okey... Let me give it a try!

This sound is made as if you are swallowing... In linguistic terminology, it's called a "glottal stop"... Basically what you do is: you close the airways - to both oral and nasal cavities... It's a very "strange" or "odd" for a European - since no European language has this sound... It is however found in Kurdish, Arabic, Hebrew and Assyrian, while a lighter version of the sound exists in Persian...

I will basically have to record this sound by means of video or audio - and send it to you... Hmmm... GREAT! I found it - I searched Youtube for the Kurdish Alphabet - and I found a video in which the entire Kurdish alphabet is read out loud! So here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjcmnfxflU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

Except - this man is reading the consonnants with an ê at the end whereas there should be an i instead... :roll: Not that that means anything to you, of course... :P

Yes, you simply use your voice to convey the meaning of your words: either question, statement, declaration or surprise... It's all in your voice...

But you can't say "Tu'yi Kurdî"... Since that means "Are you [the one they call] Kurdî?" ---> You want to say "Tu Kurdî?" = "Are you Kurdish?"... Put the "î" at the end of words: "Tu Sohrab'î"? or "Tu keyfxoşî?"

The -î suffix in such cases is the verb "to be" in "are" form... :)

Repeat the list I wrote for personal pronouns...


Nationalities


Nouns and Adjectives:

Înglîstan = England
Înglîsî = English
Ewrûpa = Europe
Ewrûpî = European
Efrîqa = Africa
Efrîqî = African
Asiya = Asia
Asiyayî = Asian
Tirkiye = Turkey
Tirk = Turkish
Îran = Iran
Îranî = Iranian
Fars = Persia
Fars = Persian
Erebistan = Arabia
Ereb = Arab
Kurdistan = Kurdistan
Kurd = Kurdish
Ermenistan = Armenia
Ermenî = Armenian
Aşûristan = Assyria
Aşûrî = Assyrian
Gurcistan = Georgia
Gurcî = Georgian
Azerbaycan = Azarbaijan
Azerî = Azerbaijani/Azeri

etc. Just ask if you want to know any specific ones...

Colors

Reş = Black
Sipî = White
Sor = Red
Kesk = Green
Şîn = Blue
Zer = Yellow
Binefş = Purple
Pirteqalî = Orange
Zêr = Gold
Zîw = Silver
Asinî = Metalic


Feelings

Hard subject... Since were talking about adjectives and nouns here - you have to start with "di" sometimes and other times not - depending on which feeling...

Just list which feelings you'd like to convey at first - and then I'll translate them... Again, the suffix will change from person to person: who you speak of... "-î" = you (singular), "-im" = I/me, "-in" = you/we (plural) etc...

For example:

Tirs = Fear

Ditirsim = I am afraid
Ditirsî = You are afraid (singular)
Ditirsin = You/We are afraid (plural)

As you see, there are only 3 forms to choose from... One singular for yourself, one singular for somebody else than yourself and one plural for "you" and "we" or "they" and "us" - depending on context...

As for your request for sources: dictionaries and other sources of help to learn Kurdish - I am sure if you search the earlier topics in this and the other section, you will find many links to sites and sources... :)

There are a couple of dictionaries - one of them the one written by Rizgar (if I'm not totally wrong about his name)... Which is in Soranî... But of no use to you...
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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Barış » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:58 pm

Diri gyan, what's Mongolia in Kurdî? Mongolya? Mongolistan? :? Also what's Tuva in Kurdî?
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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:01 am

Barış wrote:Diri gyan, what's Mongolia in Kurdî? Mongolya? Mongolistan? :? Also what's Tuva in Kurdî?



Actually, in Kurdish there is a tendency for "ng", "nk" and other velar sounds to convert into "x" or "gh"...

Mogholistan = Mongolia
Moghol = Mongolian

That's how most Kurds would pronounce the word - with a "french R" ("gh") - but the more standard version would be either with a "x" or with a "ng" instead of the "gh"... :) Since "gh", although used in Kurdish depending on region, does not have its own letter in Kurdish (alphabet)...
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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Barış » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:30 pm

Diri wrote:
Barış wrote:Diri gyan, what's Mongolia in Kurdî? Mongolya? Mongolistan? :? Also what's Tuva in Kurdî?



Actually, in Kurdish there is a tendency for "ng", "nk" and other velar sounds to convert into "x" or "gh"...

Mogholistan = Mongolia
Moghol = Mongolian

That's how most Kurds would pronounce the word - with a "french R" ("gh") - but the more standard version would be either with a "x" or with a "ng" instead of the "gh"... :) Since "gh", although used in Kurdish depending on region, does not have its own letter in Kurdish (alphabet)...

So if I pronounce the 'gh' like 'ğ' Kurds will understand me?

Anyways, would Tuva be Tuwa in Kurdî?
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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:33 pm

Barış wrote:
Diri wrote:
Barış wrote:Diri gyan, what's Mongolia in Kurdî? Mongolya? Mongolistan? :? Also what's Tuva in Kurdî?



Actually, in Kurdish there is a tendency for "ng", "nk" and other velar sounds to convert into "x" or "gh"...

Mogholistan = Mongolia
Moghol = Mongolian

That's how most Kurds would pronounce the word - with a "french R" ("gh") - but the more standard version would be either with a "x" or with a "ng" instead of the "gh"... :) Since "gh", although used in Kurdish depending on region, does not have its own letter in Kurdish (alphabet)...

So if I pronounce the 'gh' like 'ğ' Kurds will understand me?

Anyways, would Tuva be Tuwa in Kurdî?


Yes, they would...

And yes, Tuva = Tûwa or even Tûa! :)
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Re: Can someone help me to learn Bahdini?

PostAuthor: Barış » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:28 pm

Zor spas. :D
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