Navigator
Facebook
Search
Ads & Recent Photos
Recent Images
Welcome To Roj Bash Kurdistan 

Kirmanckî

Discuss about language(s) in English

Kirmanckî

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:42 pm

Comparing Kirmanckî with Kurdish dialects, northern Iranian languages and Persian

Kirmanckî : Kurdish : Talyshi : Tati : Gilaki : Persian : English

waşt : wîst [Soranî] : xas : xas : xas : xast : want
antene : kêşan [Soranî, I don't know about Hewramî and Goranî varieties.] : îsûin : visûê : - : kêşîden : to push
dest : dest, des : des : des : des : dest : hand
pers : pirs : pirs : pers, pêrs : purs : pors : ask
ez : ez, min, emin : az, ez : ez, ezî : min : men : I
weş amaene : weş aman : xeş amê : xeş amiyên : xeş ameîn : xoş ameden : welcome
zwan, jüwan, zon : zwan : zvon : zan : zûn : zeban : language, tongue
-vîn : -vîn, -wîn, -bîn : -vîn : -vîn : -bîn, -vîn : -bîn : see
huner : huner : xener, xiner : huner : hunir : honer : art
daene : dan, daen : aduê : adan : dan : daden : to give
çim : çem : çêm : çiş : çuşm : çeşm : eye
bivîne : bivîne, biwîne, bibîne : dîs : diyes, hînde : bibîn : bêbîn : look, see
verg : werg, gûrg : vek, verg : vek, gûrg : vark : gorg : wolf
çêneke, ceniye : cenî, jên, jin : jen : jene, zen : zen : zen : wife/woman
pêr, pî : pîdir, peder, bab : piyêr : dede, pê : pidir : pêder : father
mae, dayîk : mar, mak, dayîk, daye : mak : nene, ma : dade, daye : mader : mother
bira, birar : bira, biradir, birar : bira : biralêg, bira : berar : berader : brother
wae : walî, xweh, xwar : xev, xo : howlîg, gila : xahe : xaher : sister
roc, reoc, roj : roc, roj, rûj : roj : ruc : roj, roz : rûz : day
na/no : em, ev, înî : îm, em : îm, îmî : îm : în : this
kêneke, kêne : kine, kenîşke, kîc : kile, kîne : kilig : kor, kîca : doxter : girl
-ê mi, -a mi : -ê min, -a min / -î min : çemen : çemen : -î min : -ê men : my
va- : waç-, wêş-, bêj- -wêj : vat- : bat-, êj : - : gûy- : say
kam : kam : kam : kêrom : kodûm : kodam : which
di : du : di : do : du : do : two
ti : tu, to : tu : to : to : to : thou
bajar : bajar, şar : şar : şar : şar : şehr : city
astare : asare, estêre, sitare: astare : astare : sitare : sêtarê : star
keye, key, ke : mal, hewş, kede, xanû [old Goranî] : kê, ke : ke : xane : xanê : house
vana/vano : maçe : vatê : majê : - : mîgûyed : he/she says
User avatar
Emanoelkurdistani
Shermin
Shermin
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Nationality: Kurd

Kirmanckî

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

PostAuthor: Vladimir » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:00 pm

Found another website with Zazaki-Kurmanci words. But Zazaki is also influenced by Turkish. I have also a lexicon with Turkish-Zazaki related words (big part of the so-called Turkish words are Arabic/persian though).
The suppression of ethnic cultures and minority religious groups in attempting to forge a modern nation were not unique to Turkey but occurred in very similar ways in its European neighbours - Bruinessen.

Vladimir
Shaswar
Shaswar
 
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:31 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Nationality: Hispanic

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:56 am

Comparing Kurmancî [Zazakî, Dimîlkî] with Kurdish and Gilaki [considered to be closest language to Kirmanckî]

Gilaki : common Gilaki.
Lahîcanî: Gilaki dialect poken in Lahîcan [with a significant Goranî speaking population in 17-18-19th centuries).
Galeshi : Gilaki dialect spoken in Deylam area.


Kirmanckî : Kurdish : Gilaki : Lahîcanî : Galeshi : English
zama : zama [Hewramî, Goranî] : zama : damad, zama : zama : son-in-law
zan- : zan- : dan- : dan- : dan- : know
zerre : zill, dil: dil : dil : dil : heart
hîrê : yerê [Hewramî] : sê : sê : sê : three
kutik : kutik, kute, kuçik, seg : seg : seg : seg : dog
ber : deri, dirga : der : der, ber : dir, der : door
pird : pird, pirt : purd, purt : purd, purt : purd, purt : bridge
verg : werg, gurg : gurg : gurg : vek, verg : wolf
vewre, vore : wefr, befr : berf, vefr : berf : berf : snow
va : wa, va, ba : bad, va : ba : ba, va : wind
ca : cê, cêga, ca : cîga : cîga : cîga : place
guret-, girewt- : girt- : gît-: gîft- : gît- : took
kew- : kev-, keft- : ket- : keft- : ket- : fall
vat- : wat-, wût-, gût- : gut- : guft- : gut- : said
kêneke : dot, dotir : duxter : duxter : ditir : daughter
waşt- : wîst- : xast- : xast- : xast- : want
wend- : wend- : xûnd- : xand- : xand- : read
wae : walî, xwe : xahe : xahe : xaxur : sister
zûr : diro, derew : duroq : doq, diroq : duro : lie
mae, dayik : mar, madir, dayik : daye, mar : dade, daye : mear : mother
pî, pêr : pîdir, peder : pêr, pidir : pidir, pedir : piyêr : father
bira, birar : bira, birar, birader : berar : bira, birar : berar : brother
pers : pirs : purs : purs : vurs : ask
lüwe : ruasî, rovî : rube : ruba : luas : fox
kerdene : kerdenî, kirdin : kudin : kudin : kudin : to do/make
miloçe : miroçe, mûr : mur : mur : mur : ant
bê : bê : bî : bî : bî : without
User avatar
Emanoelkurdistani
Shermin
Shermin
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:28 am

Excuse me, Emanoel, but it seems you consider "Kurdish" and "Kirmanckî" to be two utterly different things...

And you do this, EVEN while including "Goranî/Hewramî" in the "Kurdish" category...

How do you justify this? I mean how can you consider Hewramî & Goranî as "Kurdish" BUT "Kirmanckî" as "something else"?
Image
Image
User avatar
Diri
Shaswar
Shaswar
 
Posts: 6517
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:59 am
Location: Norway
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:28 am

Excuse me, Emanoel, but it seems you consider "Kurdish" and "Kirmanckî" to be two utterly different things...

And you do this, EVEN while including "Goranî/Hewramî" in the "Kurdish" category...

How do you justify this? I mean how can you consider Hewramî & Goranî as "Kurdish" BUT "Kirmanckî" as "something else"?
Image
Image
User avatar
Diri
Shaswar
Shaswar
 
Posts: 6517
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:59 am
Location: Norway
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:07 pm

Some Interesting Zazaki [Kirmanckî] Words (From; The Posistion of Zazaki [Kirmanckî] Among West Iranian Languages)

Additional notes by Emanoel Snăza

The below text is from "The Position of Zazaki [Kirmanckî] Among Iranian Languages]. That article is one of the first articles published about Kirmanckî. Unfortunately in that article Kirmanckî is often compared with Persian and Northwestern Iranian languages and if compared with Kurdish dialects the comparison mainly results that Kirmanckî and the mentioned Kurdish dialect are different!

adir "fire": Only NW dialect preserving dental d from the *t of *atara-: other NW dialects have forms like Gor. (Awr.) *[= Goranî, Soranî "awir"]*
¢r, Vafsý ayr, or like Tal. ot¢š borrowed from Np. ateš < MP ataxš *atrša; Kd. has agir. As intervocalic *-t- usually yields y in Zazaki (cf. Zaz. keye in n. 42) *[not only in Kirmanckî but in other Kurdish dialects "key, ke" e.g. "key-vanî, ke-vanî"]*, the d of adir might be not etymological but hiatus-deleting, as the g in Kd. agir also seems to be.

ayam "weather" ~ Pth. ayam, Sogd. niyam, Xwar. 'y'mk, all "time", Av. gaman- "step (for measuring)". For the semantic development, cf. Italian tempo "time; weather" < Latin tempus "time"; for y < g, cf. Zaz. aya "awake" *(common Kurdish "aga"*, MP agah), Zaz. (Alevi) niya-dayiš "to observe" *(Bextiyarî "niya"*, MP nigkh "look" *{Persian "nêgah kerden" but Goranî, Soranî "çaw pê-dan" and Kirmanckî "niya-dayîş}*

derg "long": only NW dialect to preserve -g (~ Av. dar¢ga-, MP dagr (??) "long" *{Modern Persian "dêraz", common Kurdish "dirêj"}* [>NP dýr, with change of meaning, "late", *{common Kurdish "dêr"}*]; Tal. d¢röz and az. [Harz.] döröz "long" are borrowed from NP deraz "id."). After -r-,g is also preserved in Zaz. mergi (fem.) "meadow, pasture" (Av. mar¢ya-, *common Kurdish "merg"*) (not to be confounded with Zaz. merg (masc.) "death" ~ MP marg, *Kurdish "merg"*). After vowel, *g > Zaz. y (see ayam above) or w (as in rew "soon" ~ Av. rayav-, Pth. ray "swift", cf. Âz. [Ker.] rav "soon") *[Soranî, Goranî "raw" fast, soon, (change of meaning) hunt, run)]*

dew "village": only modern dialect (besides S-Tatý doh, döh45) still showing a reflex of the old velar ending -u (OIr. *dahyu "land"> *dayw > dew) (cf. Np. deh, az. [Ker.] + Tal. dý "village") *[Goranî and Erdellanî "dê, dêy"]*

ganý "necessary" (dial. of Pýran) ~ *[common Kurdish "girîng, giring" important, necessary]* Pth. gawanýg; in other NW dialects g(u)- "to want" or/and "to have to" (e.g. Semn.
a mä-g-än "I want"): cf. Sogd. yw`ncyk (=>gu).

guný "blood" ~ InscrPth. goxan (Av. vohuný) with unexplained g- (no other NW dialect has g-, e.g. Gor. Winy,* hûn*, az. [Ker.] vun, Kd. xwýn)
vistirý *[common Kirmanckî "veyvûk, veyvik"~Goranî "wevî, vevî, wevîk..", Soranî"bûk, wevî", Kurmancî "bûk"]* "daughter-in-law" ~ S-Tatý (Tak.) visite "husband's sister", <*visah-duxtar- and *visah-duxta 50. As Tak., Zaz. shows a more "original" meaning as compared to MP wisduxt (?) *[= there is no initial "w" in Modern Persian, most common Modern Persian "şadoxt, şahdox"]*"princess", and in this word alone preserves old *duxtar- (today Zaz. "daughter" keyna *{Soranî, Goranî kêne, kine, kenîşk"}*). As a feminine noun, vistirý can take the fem. oblique ending -er originating from "relationship-r " (see above) i.e.vistirý-yer-, thus showing "double relationship-r ".

*additional notes*
User avatar
Emanoelkurdistani
Shermin
Shermin
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:32 am

Diri wrote:Excuse me, Emanoel, but it seems you consider "Kurdish" and "Kirmanckî" to be two utterly different things...

And you do this, EVEN while including "Goranî/Hewramî" in the "Kurdish" category...

How do you justify this? I mean how can you consider Hewramî & Goranî as "Kurdish" BUT "Kirmanckî" as "something else"?


Brother I don’t do so! I just wanna make it clarify if Kirmanckî is a Kurdish dialect or a different language. For beginning I just didn’t directly mention that it is a Kurdish dialect. Also I didn’t consider it as "language". Not me, no one else can consider it as a separate (-from Kurdish) language. The comparisons clearly conclude that Kirmanckî is a Kurdish dialect with some northwestern Iranian loan words. In addition that other Kurdish dialects [Goranî, Soranî] share more similarities with northwestern Iranian languages than Kirmanckî dialect shares with them.
User avatar
Emanoelkurdistani
Shermin
Shermin
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:23 am

The below compariosn is a part of an article called "Zazaca, Kürtçe ve Türkçe Dilleri Arasindaki Fark" (Differences Between Zazaki[Kirmancki], Kurdish and Turkish). As it's clear that article considers Kirmanckî as a separate language and tries to mention differences between it and other Kurdish dialects. There are two comparison table in the article. The first one can easily show how much the believes that consider Kirmanckî as a separate language are scientific:

" Zazaca Türkçe Ingilizce Isveççe
Esto Var There is Est (S. Kihan)
Hag, hak Yumurta Egg Ägg (eg)
Estor, hestor At Horse Häst (hest)
Nak Göbek Navel Navel
Por Saç Hair Har (hor)r
Sol Tuz Salt (solt) Salt
Verg Kurt Wolf (volf) Varg
Va, (ti se va?) Ne (Ne dedin?) What Vad (Vad sa du?) "

1."mi/ti/o,a/ma/etc esto/estê" verbs meaning "to have". Erdellanî Kurdish "hesim, hesit, hesî, etc" from "hebûn" "to have". But English "is" and Swedish "est" are different words from different verbs "to be"!!

2. "va" from "vatene" Hewramî "watey, watenî", Soranî "wûtin" "to say" which is compared with English "what" and Swedish "vad" (~what)!!! ["ti (you) se (what) va(said)?" ; "vad (what) sa (said) du (you)?" ~ what did you say?]


I just made a new correct comparison :

Kirmanckî : other Kurdish dial. : English : Swedish
ti esto/-a/-ê : to hesit [Erd.] : thou hast : -
hak, hag : hêk, hêg : egg : ägg
estor, astuer : hesp, ester : horse : häst
nak : navk, nawk : navel : navel
por, gijik : por, qij : hair : har
sol : soll, xwê : salt : salt
verg : werg [Hew.] : wolf : varg
Se, (ti se va?) : Çe (to çet wût?) : What (what did you say?) : Vad (vad sa du?)
User avatar
Emanoelkurdistani
Shermin
Shermin
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Nationality: Kurd

PostAuthor: Vladimir » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:06 pm

In Old Norse Warg (vargr) is a euphemism for wolf (ulfr), and varg still the modern Swedish word for wolf. Also cognate is Old English warg "large wolf". Moreover a wolf is called warg in Gilaki, an Iranian language which is spoken in Gilan, north of Iran.

- Wikepedia
The suppression of ethnic cultures and minority religious groups in attempting to forge a modern nation were not unique to Turkey but occurred in very similar ways in its European neighbours - Bruinessen.

Vladimir
Shaswar
Shaswar
 
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:31 am
Highscores: 0
Arcade winning challenges: 0
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Nationality: Hispanic


Return to Language

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot]

cron
x

#{title}

#{text}