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Heval?

Discuss about language(s) in English

PostAuthor: Piling » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:49 pm

The Quran says that: There is no other Hadith (except the Quran) and none other should be accepted! - So any "Hadith's" are out of the question...


I wonder how the Quran could say that while hadith had been not created when Muhammad was alive but after his death of course ?

Sunna - on the other hand - is what we call what the Prophet DID in his life.


But Hadiths reported precisely what the Propheht is supposed to have done or said. this is Sunna.

Since the Quran says that it must be seen in light of time and place - it is unlogical to claim that what Hanafi, Shafei etc. wrote should apply for today and here...


The question concerns more the "created" or "uncreated" Coran. If Coran has been crated by God at the beginning of the world, it is true for ever, at any period. If not, the light of the revelation is in evolution with period... like in Shi'a, fortheir Imams receive a parcel of "divine" Light.

Everybody has his/her interpretation...


One of the big problem in islam is that an Abasid Caliph has decreted the "closure of Ijtihad", meaning the free interpretation or debate concerning the Coran. It should be reopened now, better for muslim ppl of the 21th century !

Religion is in the heart - not in the hands!


You are a bit Sufi :wink:
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PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:15 pm

If you go to submission.org - you will find this:

Hadith to Explain the Quran!

Some say we need the hadith to explain the Quran because the Quran is too difficult to understand. Why do people who find it difficult to understand a single volume of God's revelation feel it necessary to refer to 50 volumes of hadith books for clarification! Would God reveal a message so difficult to understand, yet expect people to follow it? This does not make sense. Furthermore, God tells us in the Quran many times: "we made the Quran easy to learn, does any of you wish to learn?" (54:17, 22, 32, 40) Doesn't God know what He is talking about? Doesn't He know His creatures' abilities?

It is almost impossible for anyone to go through all the books of hadith without getting confused and totally lost, especially if the person wants to examine what each different sect has to offer. That's why the so-called Islamic universities offer academic degrees in studying hadith to raise "learned men" of the religion. These students literally waste their time to learn all the details of living their lives in accordance with the supposed sayings and deeds of the prophet.

The religious rules and regulations based on such innovations contain and cover literally every aspect of life from walking, eating, laughing, sleeping?almost anything one can think of. The rules such as how to use the bathroom and what to do in there! The details are too gross and shocking to mention.



And this:
Hadith Exposed in the Quran

God condemns the hadith by name in the Quran, and informs us that it is a blasphemous fabrication (45:6-7). He says that the Quran is one consistent source since it's His Word. There is no contradiction in it. If it were from other than God, as hadith books are, they would have found in it numerous contradictions (4:82).



Every man has his/her own way of praticing Islam - as any other religion... Those who fall to the "we" mentality - are brainwashed...
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PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:15 pm

Why would you say I am sufi? :D
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PostAuthor: Piling » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:40 pm

because sufi have the belief of heart too, and rather freedom and love than fear and law in religion
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PostAuthor: heval » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:26 pm

This is what the Quran says about Hadith:

In the name of God, most Gracious, most Merciful

"There are those who advocate vain 'Hadith' causing diversion from the path of God, without knowledge, and fail to take such actions seriously; these have deserved humiliating retribution. And when our verses are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly, as if he never heard them; as if his ears are deaf; promise him painful retribution." [31:67]

"God has revealed herein (the Quran) the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them." [39:23]

"We did not leave anything out of this book (Quran), then all will be gathered before their Lord. Those who do not believe our verses are deaf and dumb; in total darkness. God sends astray whomever He wills, and directs whomever He wills in the right path." [6:3839]

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He revealed this book fully detailed?... The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words; He is the hearer, the omniscient." [6:114,116]
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PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:19 pm

Yes... Thank you Goran, kake gyan - for those very strong words from the Holy Quran! :D

The point has effectively been made and as stated - the Holy Quran IS the only Hadith!

@Piling

Hmmm... Well - yes - Religion is something meant for the heart and soul... That's what I have been thaught anyway - if I am sufÎ - then my whole tribe is sufî!
:D
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PostAuthor: Piling » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:26 pm

But Kurdish tribes were and are still ever a bit sufis with their shaikhs, opposite to the dull law of urban ulemas and mollahs.
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PostAuthor: Diri » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:07 pm

Piling wrote:But Kurdish tribes were and are still ever a bit sufis with their shaikhs, opposite to the dull law of urban ulemas and mollahs.


You saying we are RURAL? :?



You Agent of the Emperial West! :P
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PostAuthor: tomjez » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:22 am

If there is an Haddith forbidding music, you'll find another one saying it is god's voice. This is the big problem with islam, you can find a "haddith" telling that all men are brothers, another one saying that all non believers must be killed...in France, some "scholars" try to use haddiths to say that cell phone or internet are unislamic...
http://istanbuldakitom.blogspot.com/

NE MUTLU BRETON DIYENE

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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:34 am

You saying we are RURAL?


Never saw a kona res, in city, it would be nice to see one in Hewlêr Center 8)
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:09 pm

tomjez wrote:If there is an Haddith forbidding music, you'll find another one saying it is god's voice. This is the big problem with islam, you can find a "haddith" telling that all men are brothers, another one saying that all non believers must be killed...in France, some "scholars" try to use haddiths to say that cell phone or internet are unislamic...



Tom... Did you read what the QURAN thinks about Hadiths? Can you then understand that There is ONLY ONE Hadith? Meaning: All those Hadiths written by Hanafi, Shafei etc - are needless...

The Quran - is not contradictive - but the Hadiths ARE...
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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:40 pm

All those Hadiths written by Hanafi, Shafei etc - are needless...


You make a confusion. Hanafi, Shafei, etc did not write any hadiths ! They just create a juridical method to interpret hadiths and apply them to pratical and social life.

Hadiths had been reported by many people. All of them pretend to start from a witness's tale, beginning that : "one day I heard the Prophet said this or that..." or "I saw the Prohet acting like that"... and the hadith has been transmitted (orally) to Hasan to Ali to Ahmad, etc etc, until the collector of hadiths (one of the most famous is Boukhari).

And I repeat : How could Qoran stated about hadiths while hadith did not still exist when Muhammad was alive ? It was a long time after the Prophet's death that hadiths had been collected. Hadiths had been begun to be quoted BECAUSE Muhammad was dead and could not recite any suret for explaining or resolve an issue. So ppl tried to observe Muhammad's behavior as an alternative model for Muslims, whern soluces were not in Coran.

So if Coran mentions something about so-called hadiths it could not concern Muhammads' hadiths but others'.
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:51 pm

Piling... You are forgetting that GOD IS ALL KNOWING ALL MIGHT - God KNEW what was gonna happen... THAT is why the Quran, while it COULD have USED ANOTHER name than "Hadith" USED "Hadith" - because of the wisdom that people were gonna abuse what was written in the Quran...

Because they try to justify what they do with Suras and Ayets from the Quran - even if it is a Hadith - they find something in the Quran which can be twarted...

See how little I care for Hadiths? :P


Sunna, is another thing - they are what you described as "one day I saw the Prophet..." THAT is = Sunna...
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PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:54 pm

Sunna, is another thing - they are what you described as "one day I saw the Prophet..." THAT is = Sunna...


I don't understand the difference you make with that and hadiths ? Hadith are these "One day, I saw the prophet, etc".
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PostAuthor: Diri » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:03 pm

Piling wrote:
Sunna, is another thing - they are what you described as "one day I saw the Prophet..." THAT is = Sunna...


I don't understand the difference you make with that and hadiths ? Hadith are these "One day, I saw the prophet, etc".



Sunnet: What the Propeht DID - his actions...

Hedîs: What the Prophet SAID - his words...
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