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Latin Vs Sorani script

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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: talsor » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:00 pm

KurdInEurope wrote:What do you guys think about?: http://yekgirtu.com/

Do you think such an alphabet will ever be introduced in Kurdistan, or at least held conferences about?

I doubt that it will ever be the standard because it is rarely used and frankly I do not see much differences in compare to latin which is widely used .
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:13 pm

ideas wrote:Alan Latin is an Indo-European script, just like Kurdish is an Indo-European language. Turkish is not an Indo-European language although most words have Iranic origins. Latin fits Kurdish the best because of it's roots, not so that Europeans can read our language. For example in English you have Work and Worker and in Kurdish you have Ish and Ishkker, another form is in English Working and in Kurdish Ishkerden these are some of the reasons as to why Kurdish is classified as an Indo-European language, and why Latin would fit it best.

Nope, Eastern Slavic langauges are also Indo-European, yet they use Acyrillic.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:52 pm

is there a coming latin reform?
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:24 am

KAK taslor

I'm frOM SK I read and write Latin bcoz I was taught in school I'm sure NK can do the same for us in south won't they ? Also it's wrong to call Kurdish Soranî script "Arabic" is wrong so then Chinese Japanese Korean and other Asian countries are using "Chinese" script !

I know we need unity but like I said we in SK already know the Latin script but it's not fair to change it to Latin for NK while they are not even studying or learning it in schools !

And I don't know about majority Kurds using Latin, most NK Kurds don't even speak Kurdish let alone read and write Latin while SK and EK which is almost half of Kurdish population use Soranî script and will most def want to keep using it.

Once NK gets freed they can teach Soranî script but however I will not hold my breath bcoz pkk is only teaching Latin now in WK, when NK and WK agree to use my flag then I'll consider removing Soranî script.

You speak of unity Heval while PYD does the opposite in WK (disallowing using SK and EK flag and script, disallowing syrian peshmerga return home trained by KRG to take care of the security vaccum)

Image
Soranî speaking map

Just remember KAK taslor Soranî speakers are big not like other smaller dialects.

And Latin does not write what I say it's all wrong and won't fit Soranî speakers, although it looks "nicer" but it's far from perfect script for us Soranî speakers , and all Soranî great poets have been written in Soranî script like nalî , goran, bêkes, baba tahîr, hêmn, haji qadrî koyî, welî dêwane, hejar etc... What you all suggest we do to them if Soranis was distinct ? How can the next generations read the great poems which are part of our history now ? What about all the newspapers written ? Like Kurdistan for eg !?

So as long as Soranis live they will want to keep their script NK and WK just have to learn it beside the Latin like we learn Latin beside the Soranî.
Last edited by alan131210 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:55 am

alan131210 wrote:KAK taslor

I'm frOM SK I read and write Latin bcoz I was taught in school I'm sure NK can do the same for us in south won't they ? Also it's wrong to call Kurdish Soranî script "Arabic" is wrong so then Chinese Japanese Korean and other Asian countries are using "Chinese" script !

I know we need unity but like I said we in SK already know the Latin script but it's not fair to change it to Latin for NK while they are not even studying or learning it in schools !

And I don't know about majority Kurds using Latin, most NK Kurds don't even speak Kurdish let alone read and write Latin while SK and EK which is almost half of Kurdish population use Soranî script and will most def want to keep using it.

Once NK gets freed they can teach Soranî script but however I will not hold my breath bcoz pkk is only teaching Latin now in WK, when NK and WK agree to use my flag then I'll consider removing Soranî script.

You speak of unity Heval while PYD does the opposite in WK (disallowing using SK and EK flag and script, disallowing syrian peshmerga return home trained by KRG to take care of the security vaccum)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... alects.jpg
Soranî speaking map

Just remember KAK taslor Soranî speakers are big not like other smaller dialects.

And Latin does not write what I say it's all wrong and won't fit Soranî speakers, although it looks "nicer" but it's far from perfect script for us Soranî speakers , and all Soranî great poets have been written in Soranî script like nalî , goran, bêkes, baba tahîr, hêmn, haji qadrî koyî, welî dêwane, hejar etc... What you all suggest we do to them if Soranis was distinct ? How can the next generations read the great poems which are part of our history now ? What about all the newspapers written ? Like Kurdistan for eg !?

So as long as Soranis live they will want to keep their script NK and WK just have to learn it beside the Latin like we learn Latin beside the Soranî.


please kekê, you have almost independent state, you have kurdish schools kurdish everywhere and you use it not for unifiyng and spread nationalism, please let us dont be sorani or kurmanci nationalist. please let us not bring it to say you do that and we do that, why should you care for us and why should we care for you. we should not think separatist.

And just for info. if you talk about first kurdish newspaper "kurdistan", than it was not writen in sorani-arabic but in perso-arabic script and in kurmanci dialect.

sorani script was introduced by Sa'id Kaban in 1928. Before that kurds used Perso-Arabic and not todays kurdish-arabic. all the old litterature in NK, SK, EK was writen in Perso-arabic and not sorani-arabic. All the old kurmanci litterature was writen in arabic too, not just in south. and for info, Bedirxans alphabet had influence from the new sorani script.

yes i think also that the alphabet fits not good but i think its better than nothing or arabic.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:14 am

nalî , baba tahîr, haji qadrî koyî, welî dêwane, ehmedê xanî, melayê cizirî, feqiyê teyran writed not in Sorani-arabic they used all Perso-arabic script in different dialects (the old litterature is mostly goranî in south and kurmancî in north, the soranî litterature came sooner with perso-arabic script and than it came with sorani-arabic in 1930's)
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:24 am

kurd-sthanam wrote:please kekê, you have almost independent state, you have kurdish schools kurdish everywhere and you use it not for unifiyng and spread nationalism, please let us dont be sorani or kurmanci nationalist. please let us not bring it to say you do that and we do that, why should you care for us and why should we care for you. we should not think separatist.


first of all heval latin is not proper for sorani speakers bcoz latin does not have ح ع غ ڕ ڵ ئ

second :) i am not a sorani nationalist lol i know the latin script better than most kurds from NK, and i am always learning kurmanji on daily basis by listening to their news ;), but the same thing can apply for those who want latin script so badly like a phobia by been a latin nationalist. we in SK have grown too much into the sorani script (from kinda garden to University) and simply changing it to any other script is impossible. if Sorani script is used by Sorani speakers and they refuse to use latin script , then kurmanji speakers should respect that not over react, unification is important yes, but i dont think NK and SK will ever unite for obvious reasons (KRG vs PKK), they did not unite in WK either but they are biting their tongue for the time been!! we will just be two great Kurdish states and allies in the ME, that is how i see things going whether we like it now, i am for a unified kurdistan but it is not possible as we saw how pkk refuses anything coming from SK(flag+army). there is 22 arabic countries let there be 2 kurdish states (NK+WK=1 and SK+EK=2)!!.

all it took for me to learn latin was in year 6 in Kurdish grammar subject, one of the chapters was taught in latin, the same can apply in NK when it is freed from occupation, but first NK must learn latin then speak about why SK and EK want to use the sorani script.

how can you ask SK and EK to remove sorani script and use latin while in NK 50-80% of kurds cant even "speak" Kurdish !?

And just for info. if you talk about first kurdish newspaper "kurdistan", than it was not writen in sorani-arabic but in perso-arabic script and in kurmanci dialect.


sorry i was thinking about something else.

sorani script was introduced by Sa'id Kaban in 1928. Before that kurds used Perso-Arabic and not todays kurdish-arabic. all the old litterature in NK, SK, EK was writen in Perso-arabic and not sorani-arabic. All the old kurmanci litterature was writen in arabic too, not just in south. and for info, Bedirxans alphabet had influence from the new sorani script.


you see if you guys keep calling the Sorani script (arabic) we will keep calling the latin script (tukish). i am aware that NK used Sorani script but when atagay introduced the latin in turkey, kurds started wanting it as well which i disagree with.

yes i think also that the alphabet fits not good but i think its better than nothing or arabic.


sorani script is not arabic, just like kurmanci latin is not turkish!? wont you agree heval ?, we have to learn both(sorani+latin) in schools that is the only solution.

but WK and NK must also respect and use SK and EK flags , wont you agree heval !? i thought it would bring "unification" wont it !? what more way to show the world kurds are one via one flag which has been used in both parts in the past and in NK as well !!!??? so why not start by using one flag which is the red white yellow and green !?

if you guys keep calling the sorani script arabic i have no choice to call the latin turkish as well, i really personally like both sorani and latin script but most of SK and EK like the sorani script only.

nalî , baba tahîr, haji qadrî koyî, welî dêwane, ehmedê xanî, melayê cizirî, feqiyê teyran writed not in Sorani-arabic they used all Perso-arabic script


are you sure about that ? i will prove you wrong :-D
Last edited by alan131210 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:59 am

alan131210 wrote:are you sure about that ? i will prove you wrong :-D


yes i am 100% sure, but come with the original script not translated in sorani. kurdistan newspaper is writen in Kurmanci with perso-arabic. i posted it even on this forum. the newspaper was published by midhad bedirxan and celadet bedirxan(creator of kurdish latin) and some others (also from SK). and again sorani-arabic script is only 80 years old just 4 year older than latin kurdish.

and you can post also old litterature, but the original script not the sorani translated ones. mem u zin is also in latin, but ehmede xani didnt write in latin.

example baba tahir writed in a dialect wich is extinct oday. not even a living dialect. he wrote laki with some kurmanci similarities wich are dead today (example EZ personal pronoun)

kekê turks use also latin and if we use a latin alphabet influenced by turkish-latin it will be still be Latin. (so kurdish-latîn the right, the term turkish-kurdish will be wrong since turks didnt create their own alphabet like armenians or georgians, they used latin). And if you use just a modified version of arabic script it will stil be arabic, not sorani script.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:16 pm

Ehmedê xanî(1651-1707), feqiyê teyran(1590-1640), melayê cizirî(1570-1640), elî herîrî(1425–1495) these are some of most known figures of kurdish litterature fron NK. they wrote in perso-arabic with Kurmanci language. the wrote just like their SK neighbours in Perso-arabic not "sorani-script". again, sorani script is only 80 years old.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:22 pm

note: lets call it Kabanî script and Bedirxanî script.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:25 pm

kurd-sthanam wrote:Ehmedê xanî(1651-1707), feqiyê teyran(1590-1640), melayê cizirî(1570-1640), elî herîrî(1425–1495) these are some of most known figures of kurdish litterature fron NK. they wrote in perso-arabic with Kurmanci language. the wrote just like their SK neighbours in Perso-arabic not "sorani-script". again, sorani script is only 80 years old.


ok, but it has been taught in SK for a long time and simply asking to have it replaced with a latin script will be rejected, as it did last year.

i like them both and can read both, if i can do it as a 6 year grade i am sure NK folks can do too !? if turkey lets kurdish be taught kurds in NK must ask for both to be taught(latin+sorani).

we must also have one flag and i think PYD and PKK must start using kurdistan flag and drop their own made up flags which are all newly created vs kurdistan flag since its been around from NK first then to EK and finally in SK and its the official flag there.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:27 pm

nalî , baba tahîr, haji qadrî koyî, welî dêwane, ehmedê xanî, melayê cizirî, feqiyê teyran writed not in Sorani-arabic they used all Perso-arabic script


well they might have been firstly written in perso-arabic but they are now avail in sorani in SK and EK in almost every book shop as making them sorani is easy, so converting to latin means these poets will die out, which i think will not make it easy for the conversion. :-?

i dunno heval i am no expert but as a SK kurd i know 100% most of SK and EK will want to keep using the sorani script while learning the latin as well in year 6. :)
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:47 pm

first of all heval latin is not proper for sorani speakers bcoz latin does not have ح ع غ ڕ ڵ ئ


believe me kekê the latin script used by kurmancis is fits more for sorani and not kurmanci because the latin alphabet doesnt contain very important kurmanci sounds. celadet bedirxan decided proably not to write these sounds because SK kurds dont have these sounds.

example in Kurmanci there are aspirated P, T, CH, K sounds and non-aspirated P, T, CH, K sounds. so in reality these are 8 sounds but only 4 are writen.

example K is read in to ways:
as K in Kurd and as K in Kurmancî
the K in kurmanci not aspirated but the k in kurd aspirated.

two T sounds, but only one is writen:
ط and ت

two P sounds:
P in Pî (arm) (aspirated) and P as in Pê (leg), pênc(five) (not aspirated)
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: kurd-sthanam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:55 pm

alan131210 wrote:
well they might have been firstly written in perso-arabic but they are now avail in sorani in SK and EK in almost every book shop as making them sorani is easy, so converting to latin means these poets will die out, which i think will not make it easy for the conversion. :-?

i dunno heval i am no expert but as a SK kurd i know 100% most of SK and EK will want to keep using the sorani script while learning the latin as well in year 6. :)


converting any old kurdish litterature to Kabanî or Bedirxanî script will not be as the original.

people knows, you decide :). but the easy is not always the best.
minimum 90% of NK kurds speak kurdish even kurds 300 years in Ankara speak kurdish. maybe its true nobody speak with a standard and maybe many speak with many loanwords but let me remind no kurds speak 100% kurdish and no kurdish language/dialect is pure and perfect.
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Re: Latin Vs Sorani script

PostAuthor: ideas » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:53 pm

There are revolutionary events going on in all parts of Kurdistan, and we're arguing over which script if better for what. None of us are linguistics and while presenting ideas and opinions is healthy it seems like this is turning into a competition. This subject is best left for the professionals. Once there is a standardized Kurdish dialect, there will also be an official script. Be it Latin or Semite, does it really matter? Though personally I prefer the Latin script. Kak Alan gyan, let te dagam bra, balam kesaka chia? The Sorani script, is not exactly like the Arabic script, yet it is derived of the Arabic script. I know there are slight differences. At the end of the day what matters is that we work on the legitimate Kurdish struggle and achieve our god given rights as citizens of the planet Earth, through the right to self determination. Let us not occupy ourselves with petty arguments over what dialect should dominate, or what script should dominate but how we can improve the lives of our innocent people back home. We must not allow anything to get in between the brotherhood between our communities. We are all Kurds, people of the mountains! and that bond shall never be broken.

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