Roj Bash Kurdistan

I can't exactly recall how many times I wanted to post something on this site and I hesitated ending up closing the box altogether without hitting that submit button. The reason was I knew that not only Kurds(assuming that they are really Kurds not trolls) are going to see my posts, rather, others whom I don't know(may be a spy, an intruder, or possibly one with a heart full of hatred to Kurds who is lurking around to explore my thoughts and thinking) is the one who is siting on a computer from the other side with his boss always in loop. It's true that we would like to have the world knowing about our cause, to re-introduce our cause over and over and earn some support. Though, I don't think we can make that distinction here, we can't tell the friend from the foe. It supposed to be for Kurds only, so that we can share our concerns more vividly and touch each other's wounds so that we can prescribe the perfect remedy. We seriously need to have some screening for people around here, some ID verification or some sort of questions through e-mail may be! Untill we have that, I will remain silent and pick my words very carefully.

That was my thought of the day.

Bratan....Palto

This place has never been created for Kurds only (there were even more Foreigners members at the beginning). There is no discrimination. And we are not going to ask a DNA analysis for reading.

Moreover, you can have foes and spies among Kurds themselves : just look how Kurdish parties fought and are still fighting each others.

In fact you could have had more foes among Kurds than among the rest of the world

Piling wrote:This place has never been created for Kurds only (there were even more Foreigners members at the beginning). There is no discrimination. And we are not going to ask a DNA analysis for reading.

Moreover, you can have foes and spies among Kurds themselves : just look how Kurdish parties fought and are still fighting each others.

In fact you could have had more foes among Kurds than among the rest of the world

You should change the forum name from "Roj bash" to " The Life of Piling" or "Piling's messageboard/blog". . You're fully anti-nationalist I guess. I could never wrap my head around what the glory and prestige seeking french could find fascinating with our fleeting nation. Most french opinions on middle-east come in two variations, either they're pro-christian and anti-muslim, and lend their sympathy to armenians, assyrians or georgians. Or they're are Pro-turkish, because turkey is more "secular" and less "tribalist" and less "primitive and religious" than other states and nations in the middle-east. You're an absolute anomly, since you don't seem to worship power and prestige or hate islam.

You should change the forum name from "Roj bash" to " The Life of Piling" or "Piling's messageboard/blog".

French tradition since King Louis IXIV : just the Sun and I.

Moreover, I rarely notice here that Kurds have something interesting to post concerning books, photographies, movies, all events about Kurdistan (Aslan is an alien) . They are mostly passive consumerists, only busy to comment around their only personal 1 or 2 obsessions : anti or pro Islam/Middle Easterners/Westerners. But a few bring interesting stuffs to debate. They don't create nor act : just react.

Perhaps because except the fact that they have Kurdish blood there is nothing in their life really involved (nor really interested) in Kurdistan. That's their right, I am not myself very interested by France. But a forum is a potluck : you find what you bring yourself and can't complain about what other guests don't bring the meal you order.

Palto wrote:I can't exactly recall how many times I wanted to post something on this site and I hesitated ending up closing the box altogether without hitting that submit button. The reason was I knew that not only Kurds(assuming that they are really Kurds not trolls) are going to see my posts, rather, others whom I don't know(may be a spy, an intruder, or possibly one with a heart full of hatred to Kurds who is lurking around to explore my thoughts and thinking) is the one who is siting on a computer from the other side with his boss always in loop. It's true that we would like to have the world knowing about our cause, to re-introduce our cause over and over and earn some support. Though, I don't think we can make that distinction here, we can't tell the friend from the foe. It supposed to be for Kurds only, so that we can share our concerns more vividly and touch each other's wounds so that we can prescribe the perfect remedy. We seriously need to have some screening for people around here, some ID verification or some sort of questions through e-mail may be! Untill we have that, I will remain silent and pick my words very carefully.

That was my thought of the day.

Bratan....Palto

He who hesitates is lost - you should have your say -

Remember that EVERYTHING you say on an open forum is - by it's very definition - open for everyone to read

That applies especially to social networks such as facebook (CIA's favourite source of information) and tweeter

You thoughts and you opinions are IMPORTANT so please share them with us

I am absolutely certain there are Turks - and possibly even Kurds - on here who have tried to cause trouble - some even tried to close this forum down - I have seen as much with my own eyes - but this forum has been running for more than 8 YEARS - it will still be here in another 8 YEARS

There are only 2 people on here who admit to who they actually are - Piling and I

There is no way of checking who is actually logging on to sites - IP address - could be a proxy so site owner could never really know who you are or where you are

YOU have to take precautions for YOUR security - and the security of YOUR COMPUTER

I personally believe this site to be a great deal SAFER than almost any other social networking site - and probably 100 times more secure than facebook

I am going to post something on computer forensics - do not know if it will stay on - I have already posted a link to proxies

Palto wrote:I can't exactly recall how many times I wanted to post something on this site and I hesitated ending up closing the box altogether without hitting that submit button. The reason was I knew that not only Kurds(assuming that they are really Kurds not trolls) are going to see my posts, rather, others whom I don't know(may be a spy, an intruder, or possibly one with a heart full of hatred to Kurds who is lurking around to explore my thoughts and thinking) is the one who is siting on a computer from the other side with his boss always in loop. It's true that we would like to have the world knowing about our cause, to re-introduce our cause over and over and earn some support. Though, I don't think we can make that distinction here, we can't tell the friend from the foe. It supposed to be for Kurds only, so that we can share our concerns more vividly and touch each other's wounds so that we can prescribe the perfect remedy. We seriously need to have some screening for people around here, some ID verification or some sort of questions through e-mail may be! Untill we have that, I will remain silent and pick my words very carefully.

That was my thought of the day.

Bratan....Palto

My topic - Secret link to SEX show - is actually a secret link to proxies - follow the link and you will be MUCH SAFER on line

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13008

Piling wrote:Moreover, I rarely notice here that Kurds have something interesting to post concerning books, photographies, movies, all events about Kurdistan (Aslan is an alien) . They are mostly passive consumerists, only busy to comment around their only personal 1 or 2 obsessions : anti or pro Islam/Middle Easterners/Westerners. But a few bring interesting stuffs to debate. They don't create nor act : just react.

I know that culture is a very big and important industry in france. This preoccupation with looking aesthetically appealing to the world and engorge yourself in culture is something entirely french. Being interesting for the sake of being interesting. Looking good to look good. I guess that's what happens when you're part of a first world culture that hasn't had any real conflict or any trouble for over 50 years.

Our mentality is less shallow, more pragmatic. We look at the world order, we look at the political history, and then we comment on that. Whether you find us interesting is irrelevant. Our lives and society aren't a movie or a collectable photograph. That might be life in france though. I don't even think kurds in kurdistan find themselves that interesting or fascinating. The majority of them were pastoralists and farmers until the 20th century. Hence why they're pragmatic and hardy folk. Not rich bourgeoise who were inclined to self-love.

Perhaps you should have studied levantine arabs or egyptians. They have a temprament more similar to the french, especially the former, are full of themselves.

Piling wrote:Perhaps because except the fact that they have Kurdish blood there is nothing in their life really involved (nor really interested) in Kurdistan. That's their right, I am not myself very interested by France. But a forum is a potluck : you find what you bring yourself and can't complain about what other guests don't bring the meal you order.

For expats kurds. Our lives aren't neccesarily directly involved in kurdistan and what we hear is mostly from our family there. But there is an emerging group of young educated kurds who will be involved in kurdistan in the future. I know alot of kurds from europe who moved to arbil to start companies or work. That is more important than cultural studies and fascination with djinns and folk myths.

know that culture is a very big and important industry in france. This preoccupation with looking aesthetically appealing to the world and engorge yourself in culture is something entirely french. Being interesting for the sake of being interesting. Looking good to look good. I guess that's what happens when you're part of a first world culture that hasn't had any real conflict or any trouble for over 50 years.

Lol, the brightest period of European culture was during 16th-19th century while all the continent was devastated by wars.

And the brightest period of American culture was during the Cold War and Vietnam War.

The same in Ancient Greek times : Athena was an imperialist pro-war city.

In fact we could wonder if peace is good for arts and humanities…

Concerning the lack of Kurdish interest for culture are you kidding ? Since the beginning of their fight for freedom they were obsessed by their own culture, real or mythical and they never stop to fight for their language, their right to education, to publish and so on … against their own occupiers and also again their own religious and conservative authorities.

Kurds died for writing and speaking Kurdish, it was more important than having a State. Kurdish struggle has always been cultural and national.

Even now Kurds are able to fight each others concerning which Kurdish language is the best one, which alphabet is relevant, which ancestors are the true grand dad of Kurds : Medes, Urartian, etc. They are obsessed by their own past. Less by current cultural event. But they are not different from other people : culture is for elites. And in Kurdistan they have not an industry of masse entertainment in West… except that shitty pop music.

In fact the less Kurds are oppressed in their own culture and identity (as in diaspora or Southern K.) the more they will be indifferent to such things. As it happened in ex-SSSR : after the fall of communism, when all books, movies, freedom of expression were allowed, they lost a great part of fascination for people, who, like you or like many S. Kurds, were more attracted by business, trade, companies, etc.

And concerning the assertion that Farmers and shepherds are pragmatic, well I advise you to rich ethnology and folk studies : rural societies are the most inclined to irrational, taboo rules and have the richest cultural background. Especially the Kurds. You should read Mahmud Bayazidi concerning his fellows living in 19th and you will change your mind concerning their pragmatism and rationality.

Anyway, your views about culture as 'self-love of bourgeoisie' is so surprisingly backward : you talk like a Soviet of 1920s.

Piling wrote:
Lol, the brightest period of European culture was during 16th-19th century while all the continent was devastated by wars.

And the brightest period of American culture was during the Cold War and Vietnam War.

The same in Ancient Greek times : Athena was an imperialist pro-war city.

In fact we could wonder if peace is good for arts and humanities…

Yeah we're talking about two different things here.

Piling wrote:Concerning the lack of Kurdish interest for culture are you kidding ? Since the beginning of their fight for freedom they were obsessed by their own culture, real or mythical and they never stop to fight for their language, their right to education, to publish and so on … against their own occupiers and also again their own religious and conservative authorities.

Kurds died for writing and speaking Kurdish, it was more important than having a State. Kurdish struggle has always been cultural and national.

Even now Kurds are able to fight each others concerning which Kurdish language is the best one, which alphabet is relevant, which ancestors are the true grand dad of Kurds : Medes, Urartian, etc. They are obsessed by their own past. Less by current cultural event. But they are not different from other people : culture is for elites. And in Kurdistan they have not an industry of masse entertainment in West… except that shitty pop music.

We're talking about different things here.

Piling wrote:In fact the less Kurds are oppressed in their own culture and identity (as in diaspora or Southern K.) the more they will be indifferent to such things. As it happened in ex-SSSR : after the fall of communism, when all books, movies, freedom of expression were allowed, they lost a great part of fascination for people, who, like you or like many S. Kurds, were more attracted by business, trade, companies, etc.

Actually the reverse is true. When you live in a foreign land, you become more aware of your culture and heritage and religion. I only have to step outside of my house to notice cultural and idea diffrences. But what it does however is that you change your priorities, since you're not living in your home country and so aren't first class citizen.

Piling wrote:And concerning the assertion that Farmers and shepherds are pragmatic, well I advise you to rich ethnology and folk studies : rural societies are the most inclined to irrational, taboo rules and have the richest cultural background. Especially the Kurds. You should read Mahmud Bayazidi concerning his fellows living in 19th and you will change your mind concerning their pragmatism and rationality. .

I'm sorry, but from the villagers i've asked and people from my grandfathers generation, they simply didn't have time for nonsense. There were villages myths and taboo rules, but they weren't some primary defining trait of theirs. My grandfather who grew up in a village in zagros, near pishte kooh, and worked 12-15 hours didn't have time for borgeois bullshit preoccupations like the french, who have a alot of free-time. They had oral traditions and strong family ties. But that is it.

Piling wrote:Anyway, your views about culture as 'self-love of bourgeoisie' is so surprisingly backward : you talk like a Soviet of 1920s.

Having this connoisseur preoccupation towards culture and foreign cultures, is definitely a bourgeois trait. Not talking about snobbery, also common in the franco-anglo world. I didn't talk of culture in general terms. I'm talking with this culture fixation that certain civilizations have. And leninist-soviet in the 1920s was 100% accurate when he/she said that culture fetishism is the preoccupation of borgeoise civilizations. I don't know how you can view that as "backwards". You can see this all the time in west.

Just read Ehmedê Xanî and what he wrote how knowledge, culture and freedom are necessary if Kurds want to escape from oppression. And he did not want to keep his works and Kurdish culture for an elite (he did not like political elites) but for the common people.

And it is under Soviet Perios that Kurds from Armenia and Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan later were the most active in Kurdish culture. Just read Emerîk Serdar and how they tried to educate farmers and peasants : they were socialists and had a culture fetichist… in fact as all Kurdish activists and fighters. Especially in Northern and Western Kurdistan, where they knew that cultural oppression was the best way to make them disappear.

The funny part is that you repeat the arguments of your own foes, when they say that there is no Kurdish culture and that Kurds are only basic mountaineers. But that's wrong. Kurds had a bright culture from cities and from folk people. Just read Nikitine' work, or Thomas Bois, or Minorsky : Oral folklore is not a lower culture, it is a part of them.

Saying that culture is bourgoisie matter was also repeated by the PKK until the end of 1999. Then now they claim everywhere 'Kurdish culture ! Kurdish language !' Too bad they did not support them before a whole generation of young people forgot their own language.

Piling wrote:Just read Ehmedê Xanî and what he wrote how knowledge, culture and freedom are necessary if Kurds want to escape from oppression. And he did not want to keep his works and Kurdish culture for an elite (he did not like political elites) but for the common people.

And it is under Soviet Perios that Kurds from Armenia and Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan later were the most active in Kurdish culture. Just read Emerîk Serdar and how they tried to educate farmers and peasants : they were socialists and had a culture fetichist… in fact as all Kurdish activists and fighters. Especially in Northern and Western Kurdistan, where they knew that cultural oppression was the best way to make them disappear.

The funny part is that you repeat the arguments of your own foes, when they say that there is no Kurdish culture and that Kurds are only basic mountaineers. But that's wrong. Kurds had a bright culture from cities and from folk people. Just read Nikitine' work, or Thomas Bois, or Minorsky : Oral folklore is not a lower culture, it is a part of them.

Saying that culture is bourgoisie matter was also repeated by the PKK until the end of 1999. Then now they claim everywhere 'Kurdish culture ! Kurdish language !' Too bad they did not support them before a whole generation of young people forgot their own language.

You seem to misunderstand my argument. I'm not arguing against the uniqueness of kurdish culture, ethnicity, identity or independence. I'm arguing against this absurd connoisseur approach you have.

Anthea wrote:

How is it off-topic?

Palto wrote:We seriously need to have some screening for people around here, some ID verification or some sort of questions through e-mail may be! Untill we have that, I will remain silent and pick my words very carefully.

That was my thought of the day.

Bratan....Palto

I have sent you a PRIVATE MESSAGE about security

I'm arguing against this absurd connoisseur approach you have.

Beter to have a connaisseur approah than an ignorant's one. Better to be educated than uneducated. Better to have cultural luggages than nothing. That's my bourgeois préjugé.

But Anthea is right, we are off-topic. But the best for Palto is to open a private forum only for Kurds and hidden for the rest of the world, with only selected members : it is called a private chat-list