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Islamic State/Empire

Discussions about religion.

Islamic State/Empire - Yes or No?

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Total votes : 17

Islamic State/Empire

PostAuthor: Parsi » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:58 am

Ok since we are going off topic on other threads - let's discuss this here.

Are you for a large Islamic State/Empire like during the Caliphates of Islam - yes or no? And why?

Obviously this state would be based on Islamic law and other Islamic traditions...
Look to your history and roots to find your true self.

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Islamic State/Empire

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PostAuthor: cazyun » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:18 pm

YEEEEES DEFINITLY :!: :!: because a large islamic union would solve the ethnity and communications problem betwen muslims. the old islamic empire after prophet muhammed saw was a society were no rasim or other language problem exsisted..the borders and far connection betwen people was created by west.. a islamic empire would strenghten the muslim brothaship and sistaship + the sunni and shia problem wouldnt be focused on.. a democratic union with canditates and represants from each province like turkey, marocko,pakistan

8)

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PostAuthor: Parsi » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:37 pm

cazyun wrote:YEEEEES DEFINITLY :!: :!: because a large islamic union would solve the ethnity and communications problem betwen muslims. the old islamic empire after prophet muhammed saw was a society were no rasim or other language problem exsisted..the borders and far connection betwen people was created by west.. a islamic empire would strenghten the muslim brothaship and sistaship + the sunni and shia problem wouldnt be focused on.. a democratic union with canditates and represants from each province like turkey, marocko,pakistan

8)


No racism? Really?

During the first Caliphate of Islam (Umayyad) Arabs were the dominant race and all others were referred to as "Wahabis" or "Ejems."

"Be watchful of Iranian Muslims and never treat them as equals of Arabs. Arabs have a right to take in marriage their women, but they have no right to marry Arab women. Arabs are entitled to inherit their legacy, but they cannot inherit from an Arab. As far as possible they are to be given lesser pensions and lowly jobs. In the presence of an Arab a non-Arab shall not lead the congregation prayer, nor they are to be allowed to stand in the first row of prayer, nor to be entrusted with the job of guarding the frontiers or the post of a qadi"

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/iran/mutual.htm

"The Mawali were not allowed to lead the prayers or receive booty even if they had participated in battles and distinguished themselves. They were not allowed to ride horses, marry into Arab families, or administer governmental or religious affairs. Even the offspring of mixed marriages were not exempt. The Mawali did not have the right to walk alongside an Arab; if a Mawali met an Arab carrying a load, he had to carry that load to the Arab's home without expecting any payment. If a Mawali were riding a horse and saw an Arab, he had to dismount and allow the Arab to ride instead. In fact, he had to take the Arab to his destination. Furthermore, the Mawali did not have the right to marry their daughters without prior permission from their Arab masters. Even in death rituals, there was a distinction. As a rule, Arabs did not participate in funerals held for the Mawali and the Mawali were not allowed to perform funeral prayers for a deceased Arab"

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Geography/samanid.htm

To this day, in some Arab countries Iranians are referred to as Ejems. I remember going to Ahwaz as a child and this Arabic woman shoing me away call me an Ejem...Why don't you go and tell HER and people liker her that there is no racism amongst Arabs and Iranians.

We Iranians are no saints either - but the fact of the matter remains: Arabs and non-Arabs will not get along because of their turmoiled past and because of the VAST cultural differences.
Look to your history and roots to find your true self.

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PostAuthor: HeminKurdistani » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:22 am

I am not religious but if one day i am asked which religions you want to choose, my answer is Arian religions like Zoroastrianism.

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PostAuthor: kurdangel » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:24 pm

i'm against an islamic state.. it only causes big problems for women..
http://www.youtube.com/kurdangel

------------

pêşim merge, piştim merge
Cemî şawim û rojim merge
lem duniya da beşim merge
merg merg merg

7arş û kirş û îslam û Kafir
gişt lêm aken pilan û xader
to minit xulqanwe bo qaher
xuaye xuayeeee
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PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:48 pm

kurdangel wrote:i'm against an islamic state.. it only causes big problems for women..



http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm

Women in Islam
Last edited by schoolmaster1954 on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Islamic State/Empire

PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:01 pm

Parsi wrote:Ok since we are going off topic on other threads - let's discuss this here.

Are you for a large Islamic State/Empire like during the Caliphates of Islam - yes or no? And why?

Obviously this state would be based on Islamic law and other Islamic traditions...




http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr108.html


August 2003 | Special Report No. 108

Islamist Politics in Iraq after Saddam Hussein
Graham E. Fuller

Download full PDF report

Summary
Islamism, as a basic feature of Muslim and especially Arab politics, is destined to play a major role in the future of Iraqi politics. A huge moral and ideological vacuum has now emerged in Iraq, and Islam is tailor-made to provide a new moral compass to the people.
Neighboring states are, predictably, already moving quickly where possible to establish centers of influence within Iraq to prepare for the day when U.S. power departs. Iran will support Islamist movements among the Shia while Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states will seek to bolster Sunni forces in Iraq—most likely through the vehicle of Sunni Islamists.
Sunni Islamism, long dormant and suppressed under Saddam Hussein, is highly likely to strongly re-emerge in Iraq, dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood, but rivaled in part by Wahhabi groups, partly stimulated by Saudi support, and partly reflecting the growth of more fundamentalist views elsewhere in the Muslim world.
The emergence of Shiite power in Iraq, rather than giving Iran a major toehold over the new Iraq, is more likely to serve as a rival to Iran over time and pose a basic ideological threat to Iranian hardliners who champion clerical rule.
Iraqi Shia are much less likely than Iranian Shia to accept clerical rule, even while possibly supporting some kind of Islamic state in which clerics do not dominate.
The Islamists—Shia and Sunni—are not automatically hostile to the U.S. presence, especially since both gained from the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. But they are determined to retain the "Muslim character" of Iraq, especially in the face of non-Muslim occupation, and cannot long support the U.S. presence.
While the Shia in particular rejoiced at the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, it is now the United States, in their view, that stands between them and the attainment of national power. This will render them more impatient than any other Iraqi group with a prolonged American occupation.
It is hard to foresee the emergence of any "secular" Shiite movement to rival clerical influence, even though individual Shia may indeed opt for a secular government, oppose religiously linked movements, and work in cooperation with liberal Sunnis.
Islamist power inside Iraq will be diminished to the extent there is freedom enjoyed by other political and religious parties within the country to rival the Islamists. As nearly everywhere, repression of political pluralism invariably works to the benefit of the Islamists.
Last edited by schoolmaster1954 on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:17 pm

Parsi wrote:
cazyun wrote:YEEEEES DEFINITLY :!: :!: because a large islamic union would solve the ethnity and communications problem betwen muslims. the old islamic empire after prophet muhammed saw was a society were no rasim or other language problem exsisted..the borders and far connection betwen people was created by west.. a islamic empire would strenghten the muslim brothaship and sistaship + the sunni and shia problem wouldnt be focused on.. a democratic union with canditates and represants from each province like turkey, marocko,pakistan

8)


No racism? Really?

During the first Caliphate of Islam (Umayyad) Arabs were the dominant race and all others were referred to as "Wahabis" or "Ejems."

"Be watchful of Iranian Muslims and never treat them as equals of Arabs. Arabs have a right to take in marriage their women, but they have no right to marry Arab women. Arabs are entitled to inherit their legacy, but they cannot inherit from an Arab. As far as possible they are to be given lesser pensions and lowly jobs. In the presence of an Arab a non-Arab shall not lead the congregation prayer, nor they are to be allowed to stand in the first row of prayer, nor to be entrusted with the job of guarding the frontiers or the post of a qadi"

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/iran/mutual.htm

"The Mawali were not allowed to lead the prayers or receive booty even if they had participated in battles and distinguished themselves. They were not allowed to ride horses, marry into Arab families, or administer governmental or religious affairs. Even the offspring of mixed marriages were not exempt. The Mawali did not have the right to walk alongside an Arab; if a Mawali met an Arab carrying a load, he had to carry that load to the Arab's home without expecting any payment. If a Mawali were riding a horse and saw an Arab, he had to dismount and allow the Arab to ride instead. In fact, he had to take the Arab to his destination. Furthermore, the Mawali did not have the right to marry their daughters without prior permission from their Arab masters. Even in death rituals, there was a distinction. As a rule, Arabs did not participate in funerals held for the Mawali and the Mawali were not allowed to perform funeral prayers for a deceased Arab"

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Geography/samanid.htm

To this day, in some Arab countries Iranians are referred to as Ejems. I remember going to Ahwaz as a child and this Arabic woman shoing me away call me an Ejem...Why don't you go and tell HER and people liker her that there is no racism amongst Arabs and Iranians.

We Iranians are no saints either - but the fact of the matter remains: Arabs and non-Arabs will not get along because of their turmoiled past and because of the VAST cultural differences.





[size=18]http://nabahani.blogspot.com/[/size]


Ok. You're right. It is a long one. You can look at this link.
Last edited by schoolmaster1954 on Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostAuthor: Amanc » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:54 pm

HONESTLY BROTHER! WHO IS GOING TO READ THAT ALL? THIS IS NOT WHAT A FORUM IS ABOUT, WHY DONT YOU JUST POST THE LINK INSTEAD OF POSTING ALL THAT?
What if tomorrow never comes and you don't know how I feel?
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PostAuthor: Parsi » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:48 pm

I read some of the second one - what the heck does that have to do with my post?? You just copied and pasted random stuff about Islam. :roll:
Look to your history and roots to find your true self.

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PostAuthor: Piling » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:25 pm

I agree that too long post are dull and who has the courage to read them ?
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PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:14 pm

Parsi wrote:I read some of the second one - what the heck does that have to do with my post?? You just copied and pasted random stuff about Islam. :roll:



I got it back. Sorry. You can go to the link.
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PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:16 pm

Piling wrote:I agree that too long post are dull and who has the courage to read them ?


I got it back. Sorry. You can go to the link when you have enough time to read it.

http://nabahani.blogspot.com
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PostAuthor: Arin » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:17 pm

kurdangel wrote:i'm against an islamic state.. it only causes big problems for women..


Sadly the Quran has some deep and disturbing references to women and the non muslim population... so i have been told.
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PostAuthor: schoolmaster1954 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:47 pm

Arin wrote:
kurdangel wrote:i'm against an islamic state.. it only causes big problems for women..


Sadly the Quran has some deep and disturbing references to women and the non muslim population... so i have been told.


Can you look at those websites, dear sister? You'll see the truth what the women's post in Islam:

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Rights
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Websites
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Converts
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Hijab
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Polygamy
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Advice

Please try to understand Islam. I don't know if you're a muslumah or not. But still you can understand the Divine Qur'an. It was a revulation for women in its period. It is still so live...
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