Zerdesht - Who was he and what?

[Diri]

It is the same in Sweden. Alot of pizzerias, kebab-places and Persian-restaurants here are run by either Kurds or Persians.

What do you mean by "Persian-restaurants"?

I mean restaurants with the name Persian in them, i.e "Persian Palace", "Shiraz of Persia", "Persisk Restaurang".
We all know Persians stole their language, cuisine, music, dance, culture, mythological heroes, and religion from Kurds, so please don't start with me.

Gotta love ya' Arash!

Just on the side: But as a Zerdeshtî, you do know Zerdesht was a Kurd!!? His first name was Aso - and he lived in Soma û Biradosta, which is where I am from... Sêro is a village in Biradosta, which is part of Colemêrg, which is part of North-East Kurdistan...

[Arashi]

It is the same in Sweden. Alot of pizzerias, kebab-places and Persian-restaurants here are run by either Kurds or Persians.

What do you mean by "Persian-restaurants"?

I mean restaurants with the name Persian in them, i.e "Persian Palace", "Shiraz of Persia", "Persisk Restaurang".
We all know Persians stole their language, cuisine, music, dance, culture, mythological heroes, and religion from Kurds, so please don't start with me.

Gotta love ya' Arash!

Just on the side: But as a Zerdeshtî, you do know Zerdesht was a Kurd!!? His first name was Aso - and he lived in Soma û Biradosta, which is where I am from... Sêro is a village in Biradosta, which is part of Colemêrg, which is part of North-East Kurdistan...

And don't worry - "Persian Palace", "Shiraz of Persia" etc. are Persian names for restaurants... Not Kurdish ones...

I said some of them were run by Kurds...
I don't mind Zerdesht being Medean or Persian. I couldn't care less. Just on the side, Tajiks say he was Tajiki, Afghans say he was Afghani, and Azerbaijanis say he was a TURK.
You do know Mohammad was a [Edit: Bad words removed] Arab?

[Arashi]

You seem to have made a whole new thread out of this...

Let's see.

According to scientists and historians he was born/or was living in Balkh or Eastern Aryana (when considering the language).
According to Tajikistan (during the 2003 Zoroastrian festivals), he was a Tajik.
According to Greeks he was Bactrian.
According to the Avesta, he was born in presentday Azerbaijan/Kordestan (which were Medean lands), with Turks claiming he was Turkish (because they are obviously dimwitted), and Kurds claiming he was Kurdish.

It wouldn't surprise me that he was called Aso, being a Yezidi Kurd, abandoning his religion to found Zoroastrianism, and all that jazz, ACCORDING TO KURDS. Different people have different stories about him, and believe different things...it's natural... It is like that little story about Kaveh and Fereydun we discussed...

Now I have a question. Does Medean necessarily mean "Kurdish"? Weren't there Kurds before the Medeans, Persians and other Aryan people?

[Diri]

You seem to have made a whole new thread out of this...

Let's see.

According to scientists and historians he was born/or was living in Balkh or Eastern Aryana (when considering the language).
According to Tajikistan (during the 2003 Zoroastrian festivals), he was a Tajik.
According to Greeks he was Bactrian.
According to the Avesta, he was born in presentday Azerbaijan/Kordestan (which were Medean lands), with Turks claiming he was Turkish (because they are obviously dimwitted), and Kurds claiming he is Kurdish.

It wouldn't surprise me that he was called Aso, being a Yezidi Kurd, abandoning his religion found Zoroastrianism, and all that jazz, ACCORDING TO KURDS. Different people have different stories about him, and believe different things...it's natural...

Now I have a question. Does Medean necessarily mean "Kurdish"? Weren't there Kurds before the Medeans, Persians and other Aryan people?

I think Avesta is the most reliable source... Bactria could be anywhere - as it's borders are hard to define...

Did Kurds claim he was an Êzidî Kurd? Must have gone past my door... I wasn't aware of that claim...

The Medes assimilated into the already established empires of the Hurrians, Mittanis etc. The Hurrians were caucasian while the Mittanis and Medians were Aryan...

The Medes also assimilated into other present-day nations... Sure... But their claim to Median greatness is as shallow as Arab claim to Islam... Let me explain what I mean by that: "Just because Mohammed was an Arab, doesn't make the religion an Arab religion..."

I rather trust the Avesta...

[Arashi]

I think Avesta is the most reliable source... Bactria could be anywhere - as it's borders are hard to define...

The Avesta still doesn't specify his ethnicity...he might aswell been an ancient Azari or anything for that matter...Being born or living in a certain place doesn't necessarily make you part of that ethnicity. And considering the fact that most people see "Kurdish" as a type of culture, language, community, etc - Zardosht didn't speak a Kurdish language, nor did he preach Kurdishness, nor did he in anyway mention his grand Kurdish heritage...
Anyway, noone really cares if he was a Kurd, Persian, or Baloch, least of all himself. He was ARYAN, which stands above all ethnic squabbles.
Also, the language of the Gathas is of Eastern Iranian stock, which is a bit confusing, no?

Did Kurds claim he was an Êzidî Kurd? Must have gone past my door... I wasn't aware of that claim...

Yes, I believe that is one story about Zardosht, abandoning Kurds and an ancient Kurdish religion to create Zoroastrianism.

The Medes also assimilated into other present-day nations... Sure... But their claim to Median greatness is as shallow as Arab claim to Islam.

Oh, I didn't know that. Which nations, and why are their claims shallow?

What made you even mention this, by the way? You as a Muslim wouldn't want to be associated with a fire-worshipping Kafar, would you?

[Diri]

I think Avesta is the most reliable source... Bactria could be anywhere - as it's borders are hard to define...

The Avesta still doesn't specify his ethnicity...he might aswell been an ancient Azari or anything for that matter...Being born or living in a certain place doesn't necessarily make you part of that ethnicity. And considering the fact that most people see "Kurdish" as a type of culture, language, community, etc - Zardosht didn't speak a Kurdish language, nor did he preach Kurdishness, nor did he in anyway mention his grand Kurdish heritage...
Anyway, noone really cares if he was a Kurd, Persian, or Baloch, least of all himself. He was ARYAN, which stands above all ethnic squabbles.
Also, the language of the Gathas is of Eastern Iranian stock, which is a bit confusing, no?

Did Kurds claim he was an Êzidî Kurd? Must have gone past my door... I wasn't aware of that claim...

Yes, I believe that is one story about Zardosht, abandoning Kurds and an ancient Kurdish religion to create Zoroastrianism.

The Medes also assimilated into other present-day nations... Sure... But their claim to Median greatness is as shallow as Arab claim to Islam.

Oh, I didn't know that. Which nations, and why are their claims shallow?

What made you even mention this, by the way? You as a Muslim wouldn't want to be associated with a fire-worshipping Kafar, would you?

I can answer your question and at the same time refute a claim:

"he might aswell been an ancient Azari or anything for that matter"

You see some Azeris also claim to be descendants of the Medes... But how is that possible, when the Azeris didn't realy exist before the Turks came? And we now that was not untill around 1000 AD...

So he could not be Azeri, because there was no "Azeri" back then... Whereas, there are sources talking of Kardochi/Qurd and Guti etc. from Sumerian, Greek etc. sources...

So he could not be Azeri - although some Azeris claim so... That is why their claim is shallow...

I don't see a problem with the Gathas... Possibly they were written down in another language - after all, the Bactrian king adopted his religion - so why shouldn't it be written in an Eastern langauge?

Seems all very logical to me...

And let's not be unfair... As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times!

[Arashi]

You see some Azeris also claim to be descendants of the Medes... But how is that possible, when the Azeris didn't realy exist before the Turks came? And we now that was not untill around 1000 AD...

Who were speaking the Azari language then, if not Azaris? How did they not "really" exist? You hang around the Pan-Iranism forum...there are overwhelming evidence of the existenance of an Azari language and people before the Turks. Or have you fallen for Oslonor's propaganda?

I don't see a problem with the Gathas... Possibly they were written down in another language - after all, the Bactrian king adopted his religion - so why shouldn't it be written in an Eastern langauge?

And possibly he was of Eastern Iranian origin. That seems logical aswell, considering the fact that the Avestan scripts (which may I tell you, are usually ignored by regular Zoroastrians, as it is full of *really* odd stuff) were burnt 3 times, by Arabs, Greeks and Mongols, and distorted by Sassanids. I'd consider the Shahnameh more trustworthy than some stuff in the Avesta.
There's nothing of his behaviour, culture, scripts or religion that remotely hints at him claiming ANY ethnicity. You should consider Zardoshts words instead of arguing about whether he was Kurdish or Bactrian or Persian.

And let's not be unfair... As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times!

Which concludes that...?

[Diri]

You see some Azeris also claim to be descendants of the Medes... But how is that possible, when the Azeris didn't realy exist before the Turks came? And we now that was not untill around 1000 AD...

Who were speaking the Azari language then, if not Azaris? How did they not "really" exist? You hang around the Pan-Iranism forum...there are overwhelming evidence of the existenance of an Azari language and people before the Turks. Or have you fallen for Oslonor's propaganda?

I don't see a problem with the Gathas... Possibly they were written down in another language - after all, the Bactrian king adopted his religion - so why shouldn't it be written in an Eastern langauge?

And possibly he was of Eastern Iranian origin. That seems logical aswell, considering the fact that the Avestan scripts (which may I tell you, are usually ignored by regular Zoroastrians, as it is full of *really* odd stuff) were burnt 3 times, by Arabs, Greeks and Mongols, and distorted by Sassanids. I'd consider the Shahnameh more trustworthy than some stuff in the Avesta.
There's nothing of his behaviour, culture, scripts or religion that remotely hints at him claiming ANY ethnicity. You should consider Zardoshts words instead of arguing about whether he was Kurdish or Bactrian or Persian.

And let's not be unfair... As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times!

Which concludes that...?

Arash - try viewing my comment as a whole... Your last rhetorical question sounds a bit bitchy more than a real question... And I tried to credit you for your words, but you didn't want to accept it obviously... But let me give it one more try:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."
------------

That aside, Azeris of the past and Azeris of the present do not speak the same language...

And a question for you; Were the ancient Azeris known as "Azeris"?

[Arashi]

Arash - try viewing my comment as a whole... Your last rhetorical question sounds a bit bitchy more than a real question... And I tried to credit you for your words, but you didn't want to accept it obviously... But let me give it one more try:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

Actually, it wasn't a rhetorical question. You overestimate my English, I just wanted you to explain what you meant

That aside, Azeris of the past and Azeris of the present do not speak the same language...

So? Neither do Kurds and Persians. Turks imposing their language on them does not change their past or ancestry...

And a question for you; Were the ancient Azeris known as "Azeris"?

Âzar isn't a Turkish word. Azarbaijan/Azarabadagan hints at it being a centerpoint of the Zoroastrian faith.

[Diri]

Well naturally everybody changes...

And I know Azar means "Fire" and thus "Azarpadegan" would be "Agirparistan"; Land of the fire...

Which is also the meaning denoted by other Iranic languages...

And dear Arash - this:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

means that it is wrong to talk about "Kurdish Zerdesht", "Azeri Zerdesht", "Bactrian Zerdesht", "Tajik Zerdesht" is incorrect... Because there was no Kurdish, Azeri, Bactrian or Tajik nationalism back then...

[Arashi]

And dear Arash - this:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

means that it is wrong to talk about "Kurdish Zerdesht", "Azeri Zerdesht", "Bactrian Zerdesht", "Tajik Zerdesht" is incorrect... Because there was no Kurdish, Azeri, Bactrian or Tajik nationalism back then...

Alrighty then, I guess we don't disagree about anything...You were just arguing with me for the heck of it?

[Diri]

And dear Arash - this:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

means that it is wrong to talk about "Kurdish Zerdesht", "Azeri Zerdesht", "Bactrian Zerdesht", "Tajik Zerdesht" is incorrect... Because there was no Kurdish, Azeri, Bactrian or Tajik nationalism back then...

Alrighty then, I guess we don't disagree about anything...You were just arguing with me for the heck of it?

I think I was just trying the typical Kurdish stance... The nationalist one just for the mere fact of discussing it - and see how far that claim can be taken... But obviously - it is easily refuted by logic...

And you know - it's healthy to do like this, for somebody like me, who is more liberal - who will accept logic over ideology...

[Arashi]

And dear Arash - this:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

means that it is wrong to talk about "Kurdish Zerdesht", "Azeri Zerdesht", "Bactrian Zerdesht", "Tajik Zerdesht" is incorrect... Because there was no Kurdish, Azeri, Bactrian or Tajik nationalism back then...

Alrighty then, I guess we don't disagree about anything...You were just arguing with me for the heck of it?

I think I was just trying the typical Kurdish stance... The nationalist one just for the mere fact of discussing it - and see how far that claim can be taken... But obviously - it is easily refuted by logic...

And you know - it's healthy to do like this, for somebody like me, who is more liberal - who will accept logic over ideology...

Alright...I'm glad I amused you You almost convinced me Zardosht was Kurdish...oh the horror! We all know he was a pure PERSIAN

[Diri]

And dear Arash - this:

"As you said - back then, there was no nationality... So it would be anachronistic to project nationalistic sentiments back into ancient times."

means that it is wrong to talk about "Kurdish Zerdesht", "Azeri Zerdesht", "Bactrian Zerdesht", "Tajik Zerdesht" is incorrect... Because there was no Kurdish, Azeri, Bactrian or Tajik nationalism back then...

Alrighty then, I guess we don't disagree about anything...You were just arguing with me for the heck of it?

I think I was just trying the typical Kurdish stance... The nationalist one just for the mere fact of discussing it - and see how far that claim can be taken... But obviously - it is easily refuted by logic...

And you know - it's healthy to do like this, for somebody like me, who is more liberal - who will accept logic over ideology...

Alright...I'm glad I amused you You almost convinced me Zardosht was Kurdish...oh the horror! We all know he was a pure PERSIAN

Hahaha Good one...

Although I believe in Logic... I am also a Kurdish nationalist... So I will keep believing Zerdesht was a Kurd named Aso from Soma û Biradosta... As he was according to the Avesta (he was from Kurdistan)...

[Arashi]

And I as a Zardoshti and Persian will continue not caring about his ethnicity...he was Aryan and his words are timeless - that is enough for me. Whether he was a Kurd, Persian, Bactrian, Yaqnobi is of no relevance to me...I'm not interested in claiming credit or anything for his deeds.
I'd love to read about this Aso story though - could you link or refer to a section in the Avesta?