A Kurdish princess in Cannes ?

[Piling]

This must be recent. Niqab was uncommon until the revolution. It's deobandist/wahabi innovation.

Lol, I can assure you that in Aleppo, Damascus, Homs, Hamah, in 90s it was common.

Also because kurds say it doesn't mean it's something you should say. Should I say go around calling black people "ni¤¤ers" becasue that's what they call each other? Kurds who are racist, are stupid. Don't think their racism justifies being racist.

Islam is not a 'race', and in Syria, Kurds did suffer from Arabds, not the contrary. And extremist Islam is always accompanied with forced Arabization. For that reason, Kurds (and more especially Yezidis) did not like these people. For that reason, during the Muslim Bortherhood's revolt in 1980s, when Hafez Al Asad destroyed Hamah and executed thousands of Sunnis, he let Kurds in peace because he knew perfectly that no Kurds could be invoked with Islamism (at this time they were pro-Barzani or pro-Talabani or pro-PKK and pro-Communists).

I don't know if I'd distinguish the alawites from muslims.

Look at their women, they are dressed like Christians.

Their banding with Christians is a peculiar alliance of necessity.

Of curse, Allawis is a ruling minority (as Sunnis were in Iraq) and Christians found advantage under their rule. Kurds were less persecuted also, until 2001, when Azadî and Yekitî began their public demonstrations (in a time when PKK was still Bashar's ally).

[KabirKuhi]

Lol, I can assure you that in Aleppo, Damascus, Homs, Hamah, in 90s it was common.

In the haydays of the assad regime? Unlikely, I was in there in early 2000s, in 2000 and 1999, didn't see any niqabs. Not even the in the sunni arab areas.

Islam is not a 'race', and in Syria, Kurds did suffer from Arabds, not the contrary. And extremist Islam is always accompanied with forced Arabization. For that reason, Kurds (and more especially Yezidis) did not like these people. For that reason, during the Muslim Bortherhood's revolt in 1980s, when Hafez Al Asad destroyed Hamah and executed thousands of Sunnis, he let Kurds in peace because he knew perfectly that no Kurds could be invoked with Islamism (at this time they were pro-Barzani or pro-Talabani or pro-PKK and pro-Communists).

In this context it's used as a race and it's used as a form of racism. It's used by kurds to distinguish themselves as some sort of progressive ethnicity above the backward arabs, when they talk to westerners. That's just a very ugly and dishonest way for them to talk. You know very well that majority of arabs did not support baathists and saddam. The shiah ones actually fought saddam along-side kurds. It doesn't justify them talking down to neighbouring ethnicities to win favor in the west.

Look at their women, they are dressed like Christians.

That doesn't make them less connected with shiah.

[Piling]

That doesn't make them less connected with shiah.

Allawis (nosayri) are shiite no more no less than Shabaks and Yarsans (then not much). And be sure that the strongest 'anti-sunni' feelings are from these Allawis, not from Kurds.

Moreover, in Syria, as in Iraq, Kurds have suffered by Arab racism (which is Baath ideology), not the contrary. Don't reverse the victims and oppressors' place.

I saw these complete black veils not only in Syria, sometimes in Kurdistan (in Behdinan only for widows, like in Barzan villages), more often in Erbil (in 1994), sometimes in some cities precisely considered like 'islamists : Hamah in 1995 or Cizre (in 1992). In Aleppo poor sunni places it is not uncommon at all. In fact you can guess in which religious or ethnic area you are just by observing the female dress codes.

And of course it depends on the social class of the population and local traditions.

[KabirKuhi]

That doesn't make them less connected with shiah.

Allawis (nosayri) are shiite no more no less than Shabaks and Yarsans (then not much). And be sure that the strongest 'anti-sunni' feelings are from these Allawis, not from Kurds.

Based on what? They're corrupted shiahs, but their shiahs nonetheless. I think they've been innovating and inventing new theological elements, since the inception of their

Moreover, in Syria, as in Iraq, Kurds have suffered by Arab racism (which is Baath ideology), not the contrary. Don't reverse the victims and oppressors' place.

My family suffered from "arab racism"(more like sunni arab racism anyway, since shiah iraqis fought along-side us in 91-92 against baathists) my family lost everything to baathists. You've got no moral right to comment on which view is right or not, your government supported Arab racists till the end. We do not however like some stupid racist kurds, say racist things behind peoples backs to make ourselves look better in-front of westerners. Thats ugly undignified behavior. Kurds should not engage in the same behavior as baathists and nationalist Turks. Kurds have a tendency to want to impress westerners unfortunately. Lots of times at the cost of their self-respect and self-worth. Kurds shouldn't become racist, because arabs/turks are racist.

I saw these complete black veils not only in Syria, sometimes in Kurdistan (in Behdinan only for widows, like in Barzan villages), more often in Erbil (in 1994), sometimes in some cities precisely considered like 'islamists : Hamah in 1995 or Cizre (in 1992). In Aleppo poor sunni places it is not uncommon at all. In fact you can guess in which religious or ethnic area you are just by observing the female dress codes.

And of course it depends on the social class of the population and local traditions.

It's very uncommon nonetheless, the only time i remember seeing niqab, was a the umayyad mosque in syria, where salah adin is buried.

[Piling]

Based on what? They're corrupted shiahs, but their shiahs nonetheless. I think they've been innovating and inventing new theological elements, since the inception of their

Just read Nusayri theology, which exists as an independent religion since 9th century A.D :

http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/rea ... nd-shiism/

Such heterodoxy are very common in Middle East.

Concerning the 'racism', I repeat that hostly from Kurds toward Islamism and Baath is not racism. They just refuse fanatism and arabization exactly like they stand against Turkish assimilation. In Syria they were harassed as 'pro-zionists' plotting against the Great Arab Race and Nation from 60s until 2011 and they are fed up with 'Arabity'. Kurds in Syria as in Iraq do not trust 'Arab brotherhood' for their own political freedom and they are right. If you believe in 'Muslim brotherhoods' you are naive. What happens in Bagdad and in after Saddam's fall should make you think a bit more.

[KabirKuhi]

Based on what? They're corrupted shiahs, but their shiahs nonetheless. I think they've been innovating and inventing new theological elements, since the inception of their

Just read Nusayri theology, which exists as an independent religion since 9th century A.D :

Such heterodoxy are very common in Middle East.

http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/rea ... nd-shiism/

What i learned from this text, is that alawites are shiahs, who went over board and became the sunnis worst claims about shiahs. They also have different religious institutions. They're peasantly shiahs who lost connection with the twelver-shiah world. They're not, not another religion per say, but a shiah cult.

Concerning the 'racism', I repeat that hostly from Kurds toward Islamism and Baath is not racism. They just refuse fanatism and arabization exactly like they stand against Turkish assimilation. In Syria they were harassed as 'pro-zionists' plotting against the Great Arab Race and Nation from 60s until 2011 and they are fed up with 'Arabity'. Kurds in Syria as in Iraq do not trust 'Arab brotherhood' for their own political freedom and they are right. If you believe in 'Muslim brotherhoods' you are naive. What happens in Bagdad and in after Saddam's fall should make you think a bit more.

We're talking about two different things. You're talking about politics, i'm talking about everyday opinions. I'm opposed to arabization, islamization and turkification of kurds aswell. But I don't condone racist attitudes. You're right, we live in age of nation-states, there is no love and no brotherhood between muslim ethnicities. But the more we fight and kill each other, the weaker we become. Kurds will win their independence, you can be certain of that. But not by becoming like turk-fascists or arab nationalists themselves. Not by trying to impress westerners with their hatred of arabs/turks/persians. Kurds do not fight their oppressors, so they can adopt their oppressors ideology.

[Piling]

But in the instance of Ali, this veneration carried over into actual deification, so that Ali was represented as an incarnation of God. Muhammad was his visible veil and prophet, and Muhammad’s companion, Salman al-Farisi, his proselytizer. The three formed a divine triad, but the deification of Ali represented the touchstone of Alawi belief. Astral gnosticism and metemspychosis (transmigration of souls) also figured in Alawi cosmology.

Well if it is orthodox islam to deify Ali, as Christians deify Jesus, that's ok, Allawis are Muslims.


But please could we come back to the topic ? If you want to open a new one concerning your caring about Islam, Alawis and veils, there are a religious room :

Fîlma kurdî ya Sîmav beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bû :

Çand û Huner
Fîlma kurdî ya Sîmav beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bû
Ji aliyê RÛDAW Duh vî demî 08:52


Hewlêr (Rûdaw) - Sîmav, filma derhênereke Kurde bi navê Wiyam Bedirxan, beşdarî şêst û heftemîn festîvala navdewletî ya Cannesê ya sînemayê bû. Wiyam dîmenên vê filmê ji nav bajarê Himsê yê Sûriyê kişandiye û berî çend rojan ligel çekdarên opozîsyona Sûriyê karîbû ji Himsê derkeve û niha Wiyam li Parîsê ye. Rojnameyên Fransî pir giringiyê bi wê filmê didin û tê pêşbînî kirin ku ew fîlm were xelatkirin. Ev keça Kurd ji malbata Bedirxaniyan e û ji Himsê ji dayik bûye.

Sîmav navê flmeke kurdî ye ku niha di festîvala Cannesê ya sînemayê de beşdar e, Wiyam Bedirxan û Osame Mihemed bi hevbeşî derhênerên vê flmê ne.

Wiyam Bedirxan ku ev zêdetirî sal û nîv e di bin dorpêça bajarê Himsê yê Sûriyê de dîmenên vê flmê temam kiriye, berî çend rojan ji nav agirê Himsê gihîşte Parîsê û di festîvalê de girya.

Sîmav ku bi eslê xwe kurd e û li bajarê Himsê ji dayk bûye, ji malbata Bedrxaniyan e, piştî ku zanî ew kurd e, êdî hisreta kurdayetiyê di dilê wê de ma, xwe fêrî zimanê kurdî kir û piştî destpêkirina xwepêşandanên bajarê Himsê, Wiyam Bedirxan ku niha bi navê flma xwe, Sîmav, tê naskirin, kamera xiste destê xwe û bûyerên tirajîk yên Himsê kişand û du fîlmên dokumêntarî li ser Himsê weşand, lê flma Sîmav ku beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bûye, di nav Fransayê de deng veda û hemû rojnameyên fransî li ser nivîsandin, lê herî zêde bal kişandin ser navê flmê ku bi kurdî ye û wateya ava zîv dide.

Berî çend rojan, Wiyam Bedirxan derhênera fîma Sîmav ligel çekdarên opozsîyonê ku bi rêjîmê re li hev kiribûn, ji bajarê Himsê derket û çû Tirkiyê û ji wir jî derbasî Parîsê bû da ku di festîvala Cannesê de beşdar bibe.

Sîmav, li bajarê Himsê li ser diyaran bi kurdî û erebî wiha nivîsandibû: “Ez û Himsê li benda we ne”, “Ez ji Himsê dernakevim”, “Ji Hisara Himsê, Milletê min canê min, Newroza We Pîroz be”…

Şêste û heftemîn festîvala Cannesê, roja 14ê Gulanê dest pê kir û dê heta 24ê Gulanê bidome.
- See more at: http://rudaw.net/kurmanci/middleeast/tu ... bIUBE.dpuf

Video on Rudaw page :

http://rudaw.net/kurmanci/middleeast/turkey/180520143

[KabirKuhi]

Well if it is orthodox islam to deify Ali, as Christians deify Jesus, that's ok, Allawis are Muslims.

No, it's a cult-like syncretism they borrowed from christianity, but the symbolism and the figures are still shiah. They are a shiah cult and in a sense they're engaged mushriqon. Just as there are weird christian cults that have a different narrative.

But please could we come back to the topic ? If you want to open a new one concerning your caring about Islam, Alawis and veils, there are a religious room :

Fîlma kurdî ya Sîmav beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bû :

Çand û Huner
Fîlma kurdî ya Sîmav beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bû
Ji aliyê RÛDAW Duh vî demî 08:52


Hewlêr (Rûdaw) - Sîmav, filma derhênereke Kurde bi navê Wiyam Bedirxan, beşdarî şêst û heftemîn festîvala navdewletî ya Cannesê ya sînemayê bû. Wiyam dîmenên vê filmê ji nav bajarê Himsê yê Sûriyê kişandiye û berî çend rojan ligel çekdarên opozîsyona Sûriyê karîbû ji Himsê derkeve û niha Wiyam li Parîsê ye. Rojnameyên Fransî pir giringiyê bi wê filmê didin û tê pêşbînî kirin ku ew fîlm were xelatkirin. Ev keça Kurd ji malbata Bedirxaniyan e û ji Himsê ji dayik bûye.

Sîmav navê flmeke kurdî ye ku niha di festîvala Cannesê ya sînemayê de beşdar e, Wiyam Bedirxan û Osame Mihemed bi hevbeşî derhênerên vê flmê ne.

Wiyam Bedirxan ku ev zêdetirî sal û nîv e di bin dorpêça bajarê Himsê yê Sûriyê de dîmenên vê flmê temam kiriye, berî çend rojan ji nav agirê Himsê gihîşte Parîsê û di festîvalê de girya.

Sîmav ku bi eslê xwe kurd e û li bajarê Himsê ji dayk bûye, ji malbata Bedrxaniyan e, piştî ku zanî ew kurd e, êdî hisreta kurdayetiyê di dilê wê de ma, xwe fêrî zimanê kurdî kir û piştî destpêkirina xwepêşandanên bajarê Himsê, Wiyam Bedirxan ku niha bi navê flma xwe, Sîmav, tê naskirin, kamera xiste destê xwe û bûyerên tirajîk yên Himsê kişand û du fîlmên dokumêntarî li ser Himsê weşand, lê flma Sîmav ku beşdarî festîvala Cannesê bûye, di nav Fransayê de deng veda û hemû rojnameyên fransî li ser nivîsandin, lê herî zêde bal kişandin ser navê flmê ku bi kurdî ye û wateya ava zîv dide.

Berî çend rojan, Wiyam Bedirxan derhênera fîma Sîmav ligel çekdarên opozsîyonê ku bi rêjîmê re li hev kiribûn, ji bajarê Himsê derket û çû Tirkiyê û ji wir jî derbasî Parîsê bû da ku di festîvala Cannesê de beşdar bibe.

Sîmav, li bajarê Himsê li ser diyaran bi kurdî û erebî wiha nivîsandibû: “Ez û Himsê li benda we ne”, “Ez ji Himsê dernakevim”, “Ji Hisara Himsê, Milletê min canê min, Newroza We Pîroz be”…

Şêste û heftemîn festîvala Cannesê, roja 14ê Gulanê dest pê kir û dê heta 24ê Gulanê bidome.
- See more at: http://rudaw.net/kurmanci/middleeast/tu ... bIUBE.dpuf

Video on Rudaw page :

http://rudaw.net/kurmanci/middleeast/turkey/180520143

Whatever.

[Anthea]

I am going back to my paperwork - I thought this thread was about a film that was so good it made it to the Cannes Film Festival