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3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Paris

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:57 pm

thesunchild wrote:That’s why I don’t like French people and see them as enemies of Kurdish race. French intelligent services should prevent this kind of assassination.

Ah Please thesundchild you dislike everything what does not come in agreement with you.


Another incident just when talks between PKK and the state start. I am 100% sure ultra-nationalistic groups are behind these. I smell Bahceli and co.
Last edited by Kurdistano on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:05 pm

Piling wrote:
It’s a coward act against our women. The martyrs are FEMALES! The French intelligent services gave them a carte blanche to kill our WOMEN. Why do we let this Altaic Turkic subhuman kill our children and females and let them using chemical weapons against our Peshmerga in North Kurdistan?


My God, what a delirium… I don't even believe it is Turkish State… Ergenekon, probably.

One of these women was a friend of François Hollande, asshole.

If we learn that some Kurdish double agents did that, what will you say about your Aryan race, idiot ?


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Last edited by Kurdistano on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:07 pm

Piling wrote:Even Remzi Kartal said that it is not the Turkish government, and talked about 'some parties' which against the peace process.


dogface Bahceli and is Greydogs= Ergenekon very obvious. And I don't doubt that some of these individuals have smuggled themselves into the PKK.

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: unitedkurdistan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:17 pm

This act was made by filthy ultra-nationalist turks 100%
If some PKK members didn't like to have peacetalks they would go and kill some turkish soldiers instead of killing a founder of their party.
But can someone tell me in which way the kurds would benefit from peacetalks based on terms if they would come to an agreement?
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:29 pm

unitedkurdistan wrote:This act was made by filthy ultra-nationalist turks 100%
If some PKK members didn't like to have peacetalks they would go and kill some turkish soldiers instead of killing a founder of their party.
But can someone tell me in which way the kurds would benefit from peacetalks based on terms if they would come to an agreement?



peacetalks are the first step and ultranationalistic groups know that and they don't want it.

What is also a high possibility, is that the murder was hiding in the house, after he hacked the door code. He waited for the targets and shot them. And to make it look like infighting he simply walked out and locked the door again, so people would assume the woman knew there murder.

This is one possibility.


Another is ultranationalistic individuals have infested the PKK and the woman really knew the murder. The thing is we know from the past that some individuals which acted as a friend of the PKK where actually "double agents". I don't know his name anymore but there is an old turkish dude who was always on demonstrations and protests holding speeches.


The problem is, PKK is a very loose organization and many groups can act in the name of the PKK though not having any connections to them or being agents.

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Fire » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:55 pm

What people have to understand is that there wasn't a thing like a "peace talk". The subhuman Turks himself admitted that they only spoke with Öcalan to arrange a disarming of PKK. They never really spoke with Kurds to discuss which rights Kurds will get if PKK will disarm. They only tried to manipulate the people and wanted them really to believe this huge lie. And unfortunately a couple of Kurds fallen for AKP.

Kalkan said on a TV Interview a very good question which I also always thought. The subhuman Turks must tell us. WHAT WILL THEY DO WITH US KURDS AND PKK IF PKK WILL DISARM?

Well, even I can give you the answer. They will attack us and kill us. It's simple as that. What people must understand is that the subhuman Turks are our biggest enemies and they try everything what they can , for almost 100 years now to kill us, to oppress us and they Insult us EVERY SINGLE DAY on TV. I chase the Turkish media for more than 15 years and I guarantee you that they never said something good about us Kurds. They have kurdbashing every day. So stop dreaming.
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Another interesting point : why the killer(s) closed the door with key ? Why he searched the key, found it, and closed the door, then loosing some minutes before leaving the place ?


It would be easy to leave the place, just shut the door (without the key), went out the CIK and walk until the Train Station (Gare du Nord) which is at 5 mn by walking : then he takes a train for Belgium, Nederland's, England. A unknown professional killer would have done that : shooting, leaving the place, going to the station an take the first train (no more than 15 mn).

So he wanted (or she) that the murder was known late. At 2 h am French police broke the door and saw the crime which happened around 3 h pm.

Let's work our brain. Why ? (I have no idea, I really try to think why).
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Anthea » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:04 pm

unitedkurdistan wrote:But can someone tell me in which way the kurds would benefit from peacetalks based on terms if they would come to an agreement?

I have read a lot about the peace negotiations and CANNOT find any real benefit at all for the Kurds :((

The fighters would have to surrender and leave their country of birth and all their family and friends forever

All the Kurds who have given up their lives to fight for freedom will have died for nothing

All the Kurdish mothers who have lost sons, the wives who have lost husbands, the children who have lost fathers, it will all have been for nothing

All the Kurds who have had their land stolen and the villages destroyed by Turkey will have suffered and been forgotten

All the terrible tortures that Kurds have suffered not important anymore

I could write a book :sad:

Turkey will benefit becasue they will have a way to control the Kurds again X(
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Aslan » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:00 am

Top Kurdish Militant Is Among Three Killed in Paris

PARIS — Three Kurdish women, including a founding member of a leading militant group fighting for autonomy in Turkey, were shot to death at a Kurdish institute in central Paris, police officials said on Thursday, potentially jeopardizing efforts to negotiate a cease-fire in the decades-old conflict.

News reports identified the women as Sakine Cansiz, a founder of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, known by the initials P.K.K.; Fidan Dogan, the head of the institute and a representative of the Kurdistan National Congress, an umbrella group of Kurdish organizations in Europe; and Leyla Soylemez, a young Kurdish activist.

The women’s bodies were discovered shortly before 2 a.m. on Thursday, according to Agnès Thibault-Lecuivre, a spokeswoman for the Paris prosecutor’s office, who added that the antiterror department of the prosecutor’s office would oversee the investigation. She confirmed that Ms. Dogan, born in 1984, and Ms. Soylemez, born in 1988, were victims in the killings, but declined to confirm the identity of the third woman.

Asked about the motive, she said, “No hypothesis can be excluded at this stage.”

Visiting the crime scene on Thursday, Interior Minister Manuel Valls called the shootings “intolerable” and said they were “without doubt an execution.” The violence at the Kurdish Institute of Paris, in the city’s 10th Arrondissement near the Gare du Nord railroad station, seemed to open a new chapter in the often murky annals of Kurdish exile life.

In recent years, Turkey has sought to clamp down on the activities of Kurdish activists outside Turkey. Sizable exile communities in France, Germany, Belgium and Denmark have established civic and media organizations that Kurdish officials say are a refuge from Turkish censorship.

Turkey has accused some of the institutions of being fronts for separatist activities or terrorism.

Analysts in Turkey said it seemed to be no coincidence that the killings had come just days after reports of peace negotiations involving Abdullah Ocalan, the imprisoned leader of the P.K.K., who was incarcerated in 1999 in a fortresslike prison on the western Turkish island of Imrali.

While Kurdish militants blamed Turkey for the shootings in Paris, Turkish officials said the women could have been killed because of feuding within the P.K.K.

Huseyin Celik, the deputy chairman of the ruling party in Turkey, said the episode seemed to be part of an internal dispute but offered no evidence to support the claim.

“Whenever in Turkey we reach the stage of saying, ‘Friend, give up this business, let the weapons be silent,’ whenever a determination emerges on this, such incidents happen,” Mr. Celik told reporters in Ankara. “Is there one P.K.K.? I’m not sure of that.”

French police officials said a murder investigation had been opened. The bodies and three shell casings were found in a room at the institute. The women were all said to have held Turkish passports.

The P.K.K. has been fighting a bitter guerrilla war against the Turkish authorities for almost three decades to reinforce demands for greater autonomy. The conflict, which has claimed 40,000 lives, is fueled by competing notions of national identity rooted in the founding of modern Turkey by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk in 1923 on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire.

Turkey, the United States and the European Union have labeled the P.K.K. a terrorist organization, but sympathy for the group and its goals remains widespread in many towns in Turkey’s rugged southeast.

Restive Kurdish minorities span a broad region embracing areas of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran and parts of the former Soviet Union. Regional turmoil in recent years has emboldened Kurdish separatists inspired by the example of the Iraqi Kurds, who control an autonomous zone. Turkey also fears that the civil war in neighboring Syria could strengthen the separatist yearnings of Kurds there, feeding Kurdish activism in Turkey.

The killings, which apparently took place Wednesday, inspired hundreds of Kurdish exiles to gather outside the institute on Thursday, chanting, “We are all P.K.K.!” and accusing Turkey of assassinating the three women, abetted by the French president, François Hollande.

The bodies were discovered by Kurdish exiles who had become concerned about the whereabouts of the women.

The victims had been alone in the building on Wednesday and could not be reached by telephone in the late afternoon, according to Leon Edart, who manages the center. Mr. Edart, speaking to French reporters, suggested that the victims opened the door to their killer or killers.

An organization called the Federation of Kurdish Associations in France, representing many of the estimated 150,000 Kurdish exiles in the country, said in a statement that the women might have been killed on Wednesday afternoon with weapons equipped with silencers.

Dorothée Schmid, an expert on Turkey at the French Institute of International Relations in Paris, did not rule out that the killings could have been the work of extreme Turkish nationalists, some of whom are virulently opposed to negotiations that would lead to Turkey granting Kurds further rights and autonomy. Turkish analysts and officials have long talked of a “deep state” in Turkey, a group of operatives, linked to the military, thought to have battled perceived enemies since the end of the cold war.

The P.K.K. has been fighting a bitter guerrilla war against the Turkish authorities for almost three decades to demand greater autonomy. The conflict, in which an estimated 40,000 people have been killed, is fueled by competing notions of national identity that are rooted in the founding of modern Turkey on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk in 1923. Kurds account for about 15 million of Turkey’s 74 million people.

Turkey, the United States and the European Union have labeled the group a terrorist organization, but sympathy for it and its goals remains widespread in many towns in Turkey’s rugged southeast.

Huseyin Celik, the deputy chairman of the governing party in Turkey, said: “Whenever in Turkey we reach the stage of saying, ‘Friend, give up this business, let the weapons be silent,’ whenever a determination emerges on this, such incidents happen. Is there one P.K.K.? I’m not sure of that.”

Restive Kurdish minorities live in a broad region that includes Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran and parts of the former Soviet Union. Regional turmoil in recent years has emboldened Kurdish separatists, inspired by the example of Iraqi Kurds who control an autonomous zone. Turkey fears that the civil war in neighboring Syria may strengthen the separatist yearnings of Kurds there.

In recent years, Turkey has sought to clamp down on Kurdish activists outside of the country, including in France, Germany, Belgium and Denmark, where Kurds have established sizable communities as well as civic groups and media outlets that Kurdish officials say are a refuge from Turkish censorship. Turkey has accused some of the groups of being fronts for separatists or terrorists.

In Paris, the mood was angry and somber as hundreds of Kurds filled the street outside the building where the bodies were found. Police erected barricades. Some people waved Kurdish flags while others chanted, “We are all P.K.K.!” On Thursday evening a single police officer stood guard outside; Six roses, five red and one white, were laid against the door.
Last edited by Aslan on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: talsor » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:00 am

May they rest in peace


PKK members are constantly monitored by the French intelligence , Their phone calls are recorded , their internet activities are monitored and I guarantee you they were under surveillance 24/7 from inside the flat and outside . That however does not mean they were involved in any way . They certainly know who the assassin(s) are , but that information will never be revealed . The motive is certainly political , but anything else is mere speculations .
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Anthea » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:48 am

talsor wrote:May they rest in peace

PKK members are constantly monitored by the French intelligence , Their phone calls are recorded , their internet activities are monitored and I guarantee you they were under surveillance 24/7 from inside the flat and outside . That however does not mean they were involved in any way . They certainly know who the assassin(s) are , but that information will never be revealed . The motive is certainly political , but anything else is mere speculations .

I agree with you, the ladies and the centre will have been watched, though I doubt that they French Intelligence Services will ever admit to it. That is one of the reasons I was surprised that the shootings took place in the centre itself and not on the way travelling to or from the centre. Also the centre itself must surely have had CCTV installed.

The person or people who did this wanted it to have a VERY high profile. It could well have been Turkey who intend to place the blame on disputes within the PKK. Nothing else makes any sense to me. One thing is certain, people have ALWAYS divided Kurds to assert more control over them.

I worry about a friend who runs a similar centre in England, and other friends who run the PKK connected community centres.
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: dyaoko » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:23 am

our nation should be proud of such women who devoted their life human right and freedom for Kurdistan,
Turksih regime can not stop Kurdistan freedom movement with such coward terrors.

Turkish regime is a terrorist state.
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am

I agree with you, the ladies and the centre will have been watched, though I doubt that they French Intelligence Services will ever admit to it.


Of course the CIK is watched and French services admit it openly even front of the Kurds themselves ! Everybody know that and many times the 'Renseignements Généraux' visit the Kurdish associations and talk with them. The relations are not hostile at all. The watch is also a kind of protection.


But this watch can have several levels of intensity. For example, during the demonstrations if 1999 and the attacks of the Kenyan embassy in Paris, the watch was high (you could not even talk to someone with a mobile without having a big larsen noise in your ear). But now, precisely in a time when negotiations with Öcalan start, the CIK place was not seen as a 'dangerous' place.

And even if agents saw a bunch of 'Eastern people' (or only one) enter and going out the building, how could he guess ?

There is one thing that can make think that the killer(s) could fear to be suspected : the precaution he/they had to lock the door, that let him/her/them 6 hours to flee from France.
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Piling » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:11 am

Breaking News : all the victims were executed by several bullets in the head : 4 bullets for one, 3 for the others.

So it was really an 'execution' and probably with a silent weapons because the place is not deserted.
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Re: 3 Kurdish women shot inside the Kurdish Institute of Par

PostAuthor: Anthea » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:39 am

Piling wrote:Breaking News : all the victims were executed by several bullets in the head : 4 bullets for one, 3 for the others.

So it was really an 'execution' and probably with a silent weapons because the place is not deserted.

It troubles me very much that this is such high profile execution. Are people in other centres going to be targeted? Is it going to happen to people I know in England?
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