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Ancient Origins of the Kurds

About history of Kurdistan and middle east and the world.

Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:28 pm

Rando wrote:to be honest i dont know very much about our ancestors.
can anyone tell me who our ancestors are? is there solid proof that the medes are our ancestors?
(i personally believe that they are and have grown up all my life believeing that,but i want to know if there is proof conecting kurds and medes).
thanks :smile:


Native ancestors: Gutes, Hurrians, Manneans & Lullibis (The Manneans and Lullibis were most likely later on put under the Gutian category.)
Indo-European ancestors: Scythians (Alans), Medes & Parthians.

In regards to to evidence. Well there are several documents and articles explaining the connection to our Median ancestors. Our language, culture and genetics. Though the latter pan Turks and Arabs argue there is little evidence. Well actually there is quite alot of evidence connecting the Kurds genetically to the caspian sea region and with populations of that region.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Rando » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm

jjmuneer wrote:
Rando wrote:to be honest i dont know very much about our ancestors.
can anyone tell me who our ancestors are? is there solid proof that the medes are our ancestors?
(i personally believe that they are and have grown up all my life believeing that,but i want to know if there is proof conecting kurds and medes).
thanks :smile:


Native ancestors: Gutes, Hurrians, Manneans & Lullibis (The Manneans and Lullibis were most likely later on put under the Gutian category.)
Indo-European ancestors: Scythians (Alans), Medes & Parthians.

In regards to to evidence. Well there are several documents and articles explaining the connection to our Median ancestors. Our language, culture and genetics. Though the latter pan Turks and Arabs argue there is little evidence. Well actually there is quite alot of evidence connecting the Kurds genetically to the caspian sea region and with populations of that region.


thanks alot for explaing,jj :-D
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: max_b » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:38 am


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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:19 pm

max_b wrote:did you lot see the findings in ruha,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjJeEP8-fAQ&feature=related



These are stelea. Also in Hakkari they have found stelea similar to that in Ukraine. They are connected to Neolithic/Indo European people. You can find them throughout Asia and Europe. However the oldest are 12.000 old from Göbekli Tepe. Their purpose is similar to that of "Grave stones" they usually depict the bodies of the deads and sometimes even with face and the weapons and animals on it was their property.

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:20 am

I'm rewriting/altering the wiki page 'Kurdish people' to make it more qualitative. If anyone would like to chime in to help me, be my guest. But do it here first please, instead of making all sorts of drastic changes to the article itself.
It's still very much a WIP, but here's the parts I've done so far:

The Kurdish people, or Kurds (Kurdish: کورد, Kurd), are an ethnic group indigenous to West Asia, mostly inhabiting a region known as Kurdistan, which includes adjacent parts of Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. They are classified as an Iranic people[16][17][18][19][20][21][22] as they speak the Kurdish language, which is a member of the Iranian branch of Indo-European languages.[23] The Kurds number about 30 million, the majority living in West Asia, with significant Kurdish diaspora communities in the cities of western Turkey, in Armenia, Georgia, Israel, Azerbaijan, Russia, Lebanon and, in recent decades, some European countries and the United States. They have enjoyed partial autonomy in Iraqi Kurdistan since 1991. An irredentist movement pushes for the creation of a Kurdish nation state.

...

The exact origins of the name "Kurd" are unclear.[25] Though it is believed that the term precedes the formation of the ethnic group by centuries or even millenia.
Reynolds/G.R. Driver believes that the term Kurd is most likely related to the ancient term Qardu. The common root of Kurd and Qardu is first mentioned in a Sumerian tablet from the third millennium BC as the "land of Kar-da." Similarly, Hennerbichler believes the term Kurd and similar ethnic labels to have been derived from the Sumerian word stem “kur”, meaning mountain.
The term Qardu however, appears in Assyrian sources, where it refers to the contemporary Mount Judi, and which derived its name from the people inhabiting the region, the Carduchi, mentioned by Xenophon as the tribe who opposed the retreat of the Ten Thousand through the mountains north of Mesopotamia in the 4th century BC. However, according to G. Asatrian, the most reasonable explanation of this ethnonym is its possible connections with the Cyrtii (Cyrtaei)[27]
The word Kurd was first written in sources in the form of Kurt(kwrt-) in the Middle Persian treatise (Karnamak Ardashir Papakan and the Matadakan i Hazar Dastan), used to describe a social group or tribes that existed before the development of the modern ethnic nation.[29] The term was adopted by Arabic writers of the early Islamic era and gradually became associated with an amalgamation of Iranian and Iranicized nomadic tribes and groups in the region[30][31][32] Sherefxan Bidlisi states that there are four division of Kurds: Kurmanj, Lur, Kalhor andGuran, each of which speak a different dialect or language variation. Of these, according to Ludwig Paul, only Kurmanji and possibly the Kalhuri correspond to the Kurdish language, while Luri and Gurani are linguistically distinct. Nonetheless, Ludwig writes that linguistics does not provide a definition for when a language becomes a dialect, and thus, non-linguistic factors contribute to the ethnic unity of some of the said groups, namely the Kurmanj, Kalhur, and Guran.[33]
...
Although specialized sources consider the Zaza–Gorani group[40][37][41][42] to be separate languages which share a large number of words with Kurdish, the general term Kurd has, nevertheless, historically also been used to designate these groups. These groups generally also consider themselves as such.
...
Legends
Multiple legends exist about the origins of the Kurds. One details the Kurds as being the descendants of King Solomon’s angelic servants (Djinn) who were sent to Europe to bring him five-hundred women, but, as the king passed away, they retained the women for themselves, and their offspring came to be known as the Kurds.
Additionally, there’s a Kurdish version of the legend of Kaveh the Blacksmith. In it, an evil Assyrian king named Zahak, who has two snakes growing out of his shoulders, terrorizes its subjects, and demands daily sacrifices in the form of brains. Unknowingly to Zahak, sheep brains are fed to the snakes, and the children saved from being sacrificed hide out in the mountains. Hereafter, Kaveh the Blacksmith, who had already lost six children to Zahak, trained the mountain children, and stormed Zahak’s palace, severing the heads of the snakes and killing the tyrannical king. Kaveh was instilled as the new king, and the children formed the beginning of the Kurdish people.

Ancient Period
The Kurds’ first attestation as a group was in the early centuries AD, during the time of rule of the Sassanids. Here, the Sassanid king Ardashir I took its army to fight the rebellious Kurds, lead by Madig, but initially failed. It wasn’t until he retreated and surprised them with a nightly attack that he was able to put the rebellion down and incorperate them into the empire. Interestingly, in a letter Ardashir I received from his foe, Ardavan V, he’s referred to as being a Kurd himself; though this was most likely used as a social term. However, Yasemi and Farrokh believe him to have actually descended from a Kurdish tribe.

[edit]Medieval period
Further information: Saladin and Ayyubid dynasty
In the centuries thereafter, the Kurdish ethnic identity gradually materialized. Though, the term was also still being used in the social sense.
In the 7th century, the Arabs possessed the castles and fortifications of the Kurds. The conquest of the cities of Sharazor and Darabaz took place in 643 CE. In 838 CE, Mir Jafar one of the leaders of the Kurds in Mosul revolted against the Caliph Al-Mu'tasim who sent the commander Itakh to combat against him. Itakh won this war and killed many of the Kurds. The Kurds revolted again in 903 CE, during the period of Almoqtadar. Eventually Arabs conquered the Kurdish regions and gradually converted the majority of Kurds to Islam.
In the second half of the 10th century, the Kurdish area was shared among numberous Kurdish principalities. In the north were the Shaddadid (951–1174) in parts of present-day Armenia and Arran, and the Rawadid (955–1221) in Tabriz and Maragheh. In the east were the Hasanwayhids (959–1015) and the Annazid (990–1117) in Kermanshah, Dinawar and Khanaqin. In the west were the Marwanid (990–1096) of Diyarbakır. In Syria there was also a small presence of Kurds at the Hisn al-Akrad. However, after the Turkic invasion of Anatolia in the 11th century, many of these dynasties would crumble and become incorperated into the Seljuk Dynasty. Kurds would hereafter be used in great numbers in the armies of the Zengids.
Succeeding the Zengids, the Kurdish Ayyubids established themselves in 1171, first under the leadership of sultan Saladin. Born in the city of Tikrit in present-day Iraq, Saladin's ancestry was of a Kurdish tribe which originated in the city of Dvin in northern Armenia.[71] The Ayyubids went on to rule the Diyarbakir plains, Mesopotamia, Syria, Egypt and various other parts of the Arabian peninsula and North Africa. Saladin led the Muslims to recapture the city of Jerusalem from the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin; also frequently clashing with the Hashashins, who themselves had among their ranks a Kurdish leader, Ali ibn Wafa. The Ayyubid dynasty lasted until 1341 when the last Ayyubid sultanate fell to Mongolian invasions.
(unclear to me)Afterwards, the Ardalan dynasty (14th century to 1867), in fact a vassaldom of the Safavids, was established in present-day Khanaqin, Kirkuk and Sinne. ???????

Safavid period
The Safavid Dynasty, established in 1501, also established its rule over Kurdish territories. The paternal line of this family actually had Kurdish roots, tracing back to Firuz-Shah Zarrin-Kolah, a dignitary who moved from Kurdistan to Ardabil in the 11th century.
Nevertheless, the Kurds would revolt several times against the Safavids. Shah Ismail I put down a Yezidi rebellion which went on from 1506-1510. A century later, the year-long Battle of Dimdim took place, wherein Shah Abbas I succeeded in putting down the rebellion led by Amir Khan Lepzerin. Hereafter, a large number of Kurds was deported to Khorasan, not only to weaken the Kurds, but also to protect the border from invading Afghan tribes.
...
[edit]Religion
Main articles: Islam, Yazidism, Yarsan, Alevi, Kurdish Jews, Kurdish Christians, and Zoroastrianism
As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large amount of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people in the Middle East. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take liberties with their practices. At times even being heavily criticized by neighbouring peoples, reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".
...
[edit]Culture
Main articles: Kurdish culture, Kurdish literature, and Kurdish women
Kurdish culture is a legacy from the various ancient peoples who shaped modern Kurds and their society. As most other Middle Eastern populations, a high degree of mutual influences between the Kurds’ and their neighbouring peoples are apparent. Therefore, in Kurdish culture elements of various other cultures are to be seen.
However, on the whole, Kurdish culture is closest to that of other Iranian peoples. Kurds, for instance, also celebrate Newroz (March 21) as New Year's Day.[148]
In contrast to many neighboring Muslim populations, Kurdish women are not secluded and do not wear the face veil. Kurdish men and women participate in mixed-gender dancing during feasts, weddings and other social celebrations. Major Soane, a British colonial officer during World War I, noted that this is unusual among Islamic people and pointed out that in this respect Kurdish culture is more akin to that of eastern Europe than to their West Asian counterparts.[150]
...
Rugs
Food
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Architecture
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Kurdish DNA blog:
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:55 am

Small update:

Zand Period
After the fall of the Safavids, Iran fell into civil war, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country. Ultimately, it was Karim Khan, a Laki-Kurdish general of the Zand tribe who proved to be superiour, and became ruler of Iran with the exception of the Khorasan region.
The country would flourish during Karim Khan’s reign; a strong resurgence of the arts would take place, the economy was restored and international ties were strengthened. Karim Khan was portrayed as being a ruler who truly cared about his subjects, thereby gaining the title Vakil e-Ra’aayaa (Representative of the People).
After Karim Khan’s death, the dynasty would decline in favor of the rivaling Qajars due to infighting between the Khan’s incompetent offspring. It wasn’t until Lotf Ali Khan, 10 years later, that the dynasty would once again be led by an adept ruler. By this time however, the Qajars had already progressed greatly, having taken a number of Zand territories. Lotf Ali Khan made multiple successes before ultimately succumbing to the rivaling faction. Iran and all its Kurdish territories would hereby be incorperated in the Qajar Dynasty.
The Kurdish tribes present in Baluchistan and some of those in Fars are believed to be remnants of those that assisted and accompanied Lotf Ali Khan and Karim Khan, respectively.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Another WIP, with at the end a range of buildings I still have to write about.

Architecture
Over the centuries many Kurdish architectural marvels have been erected, with varying styles. Kurdistan boasts many examples from ancient Iranic, Roman, Greek and Semitic origin, most famous of these include Bisotun and Taq-e Bostan in Kermanshah, Takht-e Soleyman near Takab, Mount Nemrud near Adiyaman and the citadels of Erbil and Diyarbakir.

The first genuinely Kurdish examples extant were built in the 11th century. Those earliest examples consist of the Marwanid Dicle Bridge in Diyarbakir, the Shadaddid Minuchir Mosque in Ani, and the Hisn al Akrad near Homs.

In the 12th and 13th centuries the Ayyubid dynasty constructed many buildings throughout the Middle East, being influenced by their predecessors, the Fatimids, and their rivals, the Crusaders, whilst also developing their own techniques. Furthermore, women of the Ayyubid family took a prominent role in the patronage of new constructions. The Ayyubids’ most famous works are the Halil-ur-Rahman Mosque that surrounds the Pool of Sacred Fish in Urfa, the Citadel of Cairo and most parts of the Citadel of Aleppo.

Another important piece of Kurdish architectural heritage from the late 12th/early 13th century is the Yezidi pilgrimage site Lalish, with its trademark conical roofs.

Hosap 1643
Ishak Pasha 1685-1784
Sherwana 1734
Khanzad ???
Badinan Gate ???
Khanaqin Bridge 1860
Bohtan Castle 19th century
Mullah Afandi Mosque 20th century
Modern renovations
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: SamBurhan » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:59 pm

Did someone remove the Guti's because they were my ancestors from kirkuk :sad: :sad:
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:52 pm

Finished architecture:

Architecture

The traditional Kurdish village has simple houses, made of mud. In most cases with flat, wooden roofs, and, if the village is built on the slope of a mountain, the roof on one house makes for the garden of the house one level higher. However, houses with a beehive-like roof, not unlike those in Harran, are also present.

Over the centuries many Kurdish architectural marvels have been erected, with varying styles. Kurdistan boasts many examples from ancient Iranic, Roman, Greek and Semitic origin, most famous of these include Bisotun and Taq-e Bostan in Kermanshah, Takht-e Soleyman near Takab, Mount Nemrud near Adiyaman and the citadels of Erbil and Diyarbakir.

The first genuinely Kurdish examples extant were built in the 11th century. Those earliest examples consist of the Marwanid Dicle Bridge in Diyarbakir, the Shadaddid Minuchir Mosque in Ani, and the Hisn al Akrad near Homs.

In the 12th and 13th centuries the Ayyubid dynasty constructed many buildings throughout the Middle East, being influenced by their predecessors, the Fatimids, and their rivals, the Crusaders, whilst also developing their own techniques. Furthermore, women of the Ayyubid family took a prominent role in the patronage of new constructions. The Ayyubids’ most famous works are the Halil-ur-Rahman Mosque that surrounds the Pool of Sacred Fish in Urfa, the Citadel of Cairo and most parts of the Citadel of Aleppo.

Another important piece of Kurdish architectural heritage from the late 12th/early 13th century is the Yezidi pilgrimage site Lalish, with its trademark conical roofs.
In later periods too, Kurdish rulers and their corresponding dynasties and emirates would leave their mark upon the land in the form mosques, castles and bridges, some of which have decayed, or have been (partly) destroyed in an attempt to erase the Kurdish cultural heritage, such as the White Castle of the Bohtan Emirate.

Well-known examples are Hosap Castle of the 17th century, Sherwana Castle of the early 18th century, and the Ellwen Bridge of Khanaqin of the 19th century.
Most famous is the Ishak Pasha Palace of Dogubeyazit, a structure with heavy influences from both Anatolian and Iranic architectural traditions. Construction of the Palace began in 1685, led by Colak Abdi Pasha, a Kurdish bey of the Ottoman Empire, but the building wouldn’t be completed until 1784, by his grandson, Ishak Pasha. Containing almost 100 rooms, including a mosque, dining rooms, dungeons and being heavily decorated by hewn-out ornaments, this Palace has the reputation as being one of the finest pieces of architecture of the Ottoman Period, and of Anatolia.

In recent years, the KRG has been responsible for the renovation of several historical structures, such as Erbil Citadel and the Mudhafaria Minaret.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Zert wrote:Small update:

Zand Period
After the fall of the Safavids, Iran fell into civil war, with multiple leaders trying to gain control over the country. Ultimately, it was Karim Khan, a Laki-Kurdish general of the Zand tribe who proved to be superiour, and became ruler of Iran with the exception of the Khorasan region.
The country would flourish during Karim Khan’s reign; a strong resurgence of the arts would take place, the economy was restored and international ties were strengthened. Karim Khan was portrayed as being a ruler who truly cared about his subjects, thereby gaining the title Vakil e-Ra’aayaa (Representative of the People).
After Karim Khan’s death, the dynasty would decline in favor of the rivaling Qajars due to infighting between the Khan’s incompetent offspring. It wasn’t until Lotf Ali Khan, 10 years later, that the dynasty would once again be led by an adept ruler. By this time however, the Qajars had already progressed greatly, having taken a number of Zand territories. Lotf Ali Khan made multiple successes before ultimately succumbing to the rivaling faction. Iran and all its Kurdish territories would hereby be incorperated in the Qajar Dynasty.
The Kurdish tribes present in Baluchistan and some of those in Fars are believed to be remnants of those that assisted and accompanied Lotf Ali Khan and Karim Khan, respectively.

You could also use Fayli in barracks to describe the Zand dynasty, but that is just technality coming from me.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Kurdsta » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:44 am

This is way too complicated... Our oldest ancestor cannot be traced because the amount of different people's living the areas were not recorded but in general it was the Sumerians,Hurrians and Medes (they were the same ethnically), Urartians coming from the Sumerians, Alan's, Guti, aryans, anatolians.

Pretty much anyone that has lived in the area we absorbed that's why we're so diverse and accepting today.
The evidence is everywhere the Sumerians didn't just disappear the Akkadians took over and then the Sumerians were named hurrians then Medes and we took what was ours back from the Akkadians now Assyrians.

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:13 pm

Finished weaving:

Weaving

Kurdish weaving is renown throughout the world, with fine specimens of both rugs and bags.

The most famous Kurdish rugs are those from the [[Bijar]] region, in the Kurdistan Province. Because of the unique way in which the Bijar rugs are woven, they are very stout and durable, hence their appellation as the ‘Iron Rugs of Persia’. Exhibiting a wide variety, the Bijar rugs have patterns ranging from floral designs, medallions and animals to other ornaments. They generally have two [[weft]]s, and are very colorful in design. With an increased interest in these rugs in the last century, and a lesser need for them to be as sturdy as they were, new Bijar rugs are more refined and delicate in design.

Another well-known Kurdish rug is the Senneh rug, which is regarded as the most sophisticated of the Kurdish rugs. They are especially known for their superfine knotting and luxurious mountain wool. They lend their name from the region of Sanandaj.

Throughout other Kurdish regions like Kermanshah, Siirt, Malatya and Bitlis rugs were also woven to great extent.

Kurdish bags are mainly known from the works of one large tribe: the [[Jaff]]s, living in the border area between Iran and Iraq. These Jaff bags share the same characteristics of Kurdish rugs; very colorful, stout in design, often with medallion patterns. They were especially popular in the West during the 1920s and 1930s.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:58 am

Folklore. Doesn't seem too bad, but I can probably still add some things to it I'm not thinking of right now.

==Folklore and Mythology==

The Kurds possess a rich tradition of folklore, which, until recent times, was largely transmitted by speech or song, from one generation to the next. Although some of the Kurdish writers’ stories were well-known throughout Kurdistan; most of the stories told and sung were only written down in the 20th and 21st century. Many of these are, allegedly, centuries old.

Widely varying in purpose and style, among the Kurdish folklore one will find stories about nature, [[anthromorphic]] animals, heroes and villains, [[mythological]] creatures and everyday life. A number of these mythological figures can be found in other cultures, like the [[Simurgh]] and [[Kaveh the Blacksmith]] in the broader [[Iranian Mythology]], and stories of [[Shahmeran]] throughout Anatolia. Additionally, stories can be purely entertaining, or have an educational or religious aspect.

Perhaps the most widely reoccurring element is the fox, which, through cunningness and shrewdness triumphs over less intelligent species, yet often also meets his demise.
Storytellers would perform in front of an audience, sometimes consisting of an entire village. People from outside the region would travel to attend their narratives, and the storytellers themselves would visit other villages to spread their tales. These would thrive especially during winter, where entertainment was hard to find as evenings had to be spent inside.

Coinciding with the heterogeneous Kurdish groupings, although certain stories and elements were commonly found throughout Kurdistan, others were unique to a specific area; depending on the region, religion or dialect. The [[Kurdish Jews]] of [[Zakho]] are perhaps the best example of this; whose gifted storytellers are known to have been greatly respected throughout the region, thanks to a unique oral tradition. Other examples are the mythology of the [[Yezidis]], and the stories of the Dersim Kurds, which had a substantial Armenian influence.

During the criminalization of the Kurdish language after the coup d’état of 1980, dengbêj (singers) and çîrokbêj (tellers) were silenced, and many of the stories had become endangered. In 1991, the language was decriminalized, yet the now highly available radios and TV’s had as effect a diminished interest in traditional storytelling. However, a number of scholars and writers have made great strides in the preservation of these tales.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: unitedkurdistan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:14 am

"However, a number of scholars and writers have made great strides in the preservation of these tales." Yes in turkish sadly :(
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:43 pm

unitedkurdistan wrote:"However, a number of scholars and writers have made great strides in the preservation of these tales." Yes in turkish sadly :(


Well, there's a book, written by Diane Edgecomb, where she has gathered a number of the stories, and translated them into English. It's called 'A Fire in My Heart', and it's really well done. I've got it laying besides me.

Also, there's a 'House of the Dengbej' in Diyarbakir, where many of the tales are recorded, apparently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/de ... se-dengbej

Additionally, the Jewish Kurd Yona Sabar, has recorded and written down many of the Jewish Kurdish tales. His life is also detailed in a book written by his son, Ariel Sabar. Great book, I'm reading it.
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