Page 1 of 1

The origin of the name "KURDÎ" = "GUTI"

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:42 pm
Author: Diri
The glorious Gutians

Historic Kurdistan as ancient Gutium

Samar Abbas
March 24, 2005


Historic Kurdistan as ancient Gutium. Describing the Descent of modern Kurds from legendary Gutians of Yore. Relation of the Jats with the Gutians & Goths. Disclosing the Gutians to be a branch of the Getae, Goths or Jats of Punjab, and hence of Scythian or East Iranic race. Their relationship with the Tocharians or Thakurs. Red-haired Features of Gutians. Connections of the Gutians with the Goths. Relations of Gutians with the Tokharians. Sumerian Renaissance under the Heroic Gutians. Peak of Sumeria & Gutian Golden Age under Gudea. Linguistic evidence for Gutian descent of Kurds. Refutation of views of self-hating Kurds and Anti-Kurdish scholars.

World-Wide Migrations of the Gutians
According to linguistics and internal evidence of the Avesta, the Irano-Aryan language family originated high in the splendid Hind Kush or "Indian Kushana" mountains of Afghanistan. Historical data indicates that one of these Proto-Iranic-speaking tribes was denominated 'Gut' or 'Got'. This ancient Iranic root denominated "warrior", as the erudite Waddell notes, "the affixed title of Gut or "Goth" or 'Warrior'" (Waddell 1929, p.114) One branch of this legendary Gut or warrior tribe migrated to India, where they eventually became the renowned Jats.

Another branch migrated to Europe, where they became variously known as Goths, Gaetonnes, and Getae, inaugurating the well-known Gothic phase of architecture and giving their name to several places such as Jutland and Gotland. Yet another branch migrated to Sumeria, establishing one of the greatest empires in Sumerian history. Denominated Gutian, this branch drove back the barbaric Semitic Akkadian invaders and inaugurated the famous Neo-Sumerian renaissance. A researcher summarizes the history of the Gutians thus: "The Guti/Qutils of central and southern Kurdistan, after gradually unifying the smaller mountain principalities, became strong enough in 2250 BC to actually annex Sumeria and the rest of lowland Mesopotamia. A Guti/Qutil dynasty ruled Sumeria for 130 years until 2120 BC." (Izady 1993)


Fig.1: Guto-Sumerian Ziggurat: Splendours of Sumeria as depicted in artistic rendition by Dawn Razor. Note the striking resemblance to mountains. The Gutians erected ziggurats in memory of their homeland in the Hind Kush mountains of Iran. Massive Gutian ziggurats contrasted with smaller structures of the Ugro-Altaic Sumerians (see below).
Ethnic History of Sumer
The dolichocephalic (long-headed) Iranic Gutians entered Sumeria as the last in a succession of conquering races. The sequence of ethnic groups in generally accepted to have been as follows:

Negro-Dravidians, also called Ubaidians or Proto-Euphrateans, were the earliest inhabitants. Remnants of this people survived for long in Elam.
Sumerians, members of the round-headed Turanoid race, succeeded the Ubaidians. Their origin was generally sought in the Altaic regions: "Even King, in his History of Sumer and Akkad, looked, as we have seen, toward Turkestan for the beginnings of Sumerian culture." (Luckenbill 1923, p.7) Regarding the close, yet not conclusive, relation between Sumerian and Ugric, Coon notes:
"The supposed kinship between Sumerian and Finno-Ugrian cannot easily be evaluated, owing largely to the gap of over three millennia between the known forms of each. Both groups are agglutinative, but the grammatical structure of Sumerian also has verbal prefixes, often with personal tone, unknown in modern Finnic or Ugric." (Coon 1939, Ch.VI, sect.1: Race, Languages, and European Peoples)
Barbaric Akkadian Semites, related to the Sabaeans, overthrew the Sumerians.
The Gutians in turn overthrew the Semitic Akkadian tyranny, inaugurating the Neo-Sumerian renaissance which continued long into the subsequent Ur III dynasty.


Fig.2: Map of Gutium, courtesy Gary Fletcher
Kurdistan as Gutium
One of the clearest indicators that the powerful Gutians of Gutium were members of the Irano-Afghan race is provided by the geographical location of ancient Gutium, which lies within the modern orbit of the distribution of Irano-Aryan languages. In fact, ancient Gutium appears to have been merely another name for modern Kurdistan, a region inhabited by the Iranic-speaking Kurds today. In this regard, the great savant Archibald H. Sayce holds that the name of Kurdistan represents a mere derivation of 'Gutium':
"Who "Tidal king of Goyyim" may have been we cannot tell. Sir Henry Rawlinson has proposed to see in Goyyim a transformation of Gutium, the name by which Kurdistan was called in early Babylonia." (Sayce 1895, Ch.3)
The astute Jensen goes one step further, and identifies the Gutians as ancestors of the modern Kurds:
"The thirty million Kurds of the Middle East have lived in Kurdistan before record of modern history was kept. The very first mention of the Kurds in history was about 3,000 BC, under the name Gutium, as they fought the Summerians (Spieser). Later around 800 BC, the Indo-European Median tribes settled in the Zagros mountain region and coalesced with the Gutiums, and thus the modern Kurds speak from as Aryan language (Morris). The Kurds are mentioned by Xenaphon, a Greek mercenary, as he retreated from Persia with ten thousand men in 401 BC, he says of the Kurds, "These people, lived in the mountains and were very war-like and not subject to the Persian king. Indeed once a royal army of 120,000 thousand had once invaded their country, and not a man of them came back..(Morris)." (Jensen 1996)
Ancient Gutium was located within the modern Kurdistan, as Easton notes:
" Shoa Opulent, the mountain district lying to the north-east of Babylonia, anciently the land of the Guti, or Kuti, the modern Kurdistan. The plain lying between these mountains and the Tigris was called su-Edina, i.e., "the border of the plain." This name was sometimes shortened into Suti and Su, and has been regarded as = Shoa (Eze 23:23). Some think it denotes a place in Babylon. (See PEKOD.)" (Easton 1897, entry "Shoa")
In this regard, Elphinston notes,

"Sumerian inscriptions of 2000 BC, as well as early Assyrian inscriptions of a thousand years later, indicate the existence of a people named Kardaka, Kurtie or Guti in the neighbourhood of Lake Van. These are claimed by some authorities to be the ancestors of the modern Kurds, but it is not until Grecian times that certain identification is possible. Herodotus mentions the inhabitants of what is now Bohtan, and Xenophon refers to the Garduchi, possibly an earlier form of the modern name. Strabo speaks of the country of Courdueni where Bait Kardu is located by Aramaic sources. The modern form 'Kurdu' first appears in Arabic writings of the ninth century AD with the plural form 'Akrad'." (Elphinstone 1946, p.92)
In a similar vein, Edmonds notes, "However that may be, nationalists feel that they can claim to represent the Median as distinct from the Persian element in the great Iranian immigration about the beginning of the first millenium BC. Some go further to claim descent from the earlier autochthonous stocks like the Guti and the Lullubi, on whom the Medes imposed their language and religion." (Edmonds 1971, p.88)

The Gutians were also evidently kin of the Kassites, as Saba Dara notes, "The Babylonian army was eventually defeated by a combined force of Gutium and their kinsmen, the Kashshu (Kas-Pi) or Kassites." (Dara 2000) The Kassites have long been identified as Iranoid.

Moreover, in an entire book, scholar Hennerbichler links the Kurds with the Gutians (Hennerbichler 2004, p.183-184)

Kurd name derived from Guti
Not only was Gutium located within the modern Kurdistan. The very name 'Kurd' itself has been viewed by scholars as being merely a corruption of the ancient Iranic word 'Guti'. Thus, Prof. Howorth concurs with the derivation of Kurdistan from Gutium, and identifies the ancient Babylonian term for Kurds, 'Khuradi' or 'Quradu,' with 'Guti':
"The land of Guti answers in substance, and perhaps also in name, to the modern Kurdistan. According to Sayce the name Kurd is derived from the Babylonian quradu, 'a warrior,' a word which was borrowed by the people of Van. In the forms of 'khuradi' and 'quradu' it is given as the equivalent of 'gut' in an inscription published by Rawlinson. 'Gut' or 'Guti,' we are told, means a 'bull' in the primitive language of Chaldea, and the name Gutium, used by this early people, was borrowed from a Semitic language (probably Babylonian) which possessed the case-ending in 'um.' " (Howorth 1901, ftn. p.32)
Honigman likewise derives the name 'Kurd' from the word 'Guti':
"The Kurds are a native, non-Arab people who have lived in the Middle East for thousands of years. Their name derives from the ancient Guti (Guti-Gurti-Kurdi), conquerors of Babylon. They were the non-Semitic Hurrians of Mesopotamia and the Medes of Persian history. Their home covers mountainous regions now part of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and other countries as well. But the heartland of ancient Gutium, the domain of later autonomous Kurdish mirs, had been in what is now-- thanks to the British-- Arab Iraq." (Honigman 2003)
Telek agrees:
"Wenigstens zwei Herkunftslinien" lassen sich erkennen, "die mit allen ihren Zweigen im heutigen Kerngebiet der Kurden zusammenlaufen. Schon seit dem ausgehenden 3. Jahrtausend v. Christi gaben naemlich die Sumerer, Babylonier und etwas spaeter auch die Assyrer bereinstimmende Nachrichten von Voelkern im zentralen und noerdlichen Zagrosgebirge, die als "Guti", "Qurti", "Kurtie" oder aehnlich bezeichnet werden und deren Gebiet man "Gutium" oder "Kardaka" nannte. Eine zweite Linie aus dem Gebiet des noerdlichen Zagros und des Taurus fuehrt von diesem "Kardaka" der Sumerer, den armenischen "Beth-Kurdu", den "Khaldern" des ersten Jahrtausend v. Chr. und den durch Xenophons Bericht "Anabasis" beruehmt gewordenen "Karduchen" und ihrem Land zum heutigen armenischen "Kordukh", womit dort die Kurden bezeichnet werden." (Deschner: Die Kurden- Das Betrogene Volk", Ullstein Frankfurt/Main; Berlin 1991,S.64)" (Telek 2003, p.7)
A brief translation of this passage would be:
"At least two lines of descent are observable, which meet with all their branches in the present core region of the Kurds. Already since the 3rd millenium BC the Sumerians, Babylonians and, somewhat later, the Assyrians as well, provided mutually concordant reports of peoples in the central and northern Zagros mountains who were known as 'Guti,' 'Qurti,' 'Kurtie' or something similar and whose region was known as 'Gutium' or 'Kardaka'. A second line led from the region of the northern Zagros and the Taurus from these 'Kardaka' of the Sumerians, the Armenian 'Beth-Kurdu', the Khaldians of the first millenium BC and the through Xenophon's report 'Anabasis' famous 'Karduches' and their land to the modern Armenian 'Kordukh,' as the Kurds as known there." (transl. of Telek 2003, p.7)
Mazouri concurs with the identification of Kurds and Gutians:
"Now historically, Kirkuk has been a Kurdish city. It is a part of Zagros highlands which is the original dwelling of the ancient Kurds who were the native inhabitants of the area long before the migration of the other races and tribes. In an article published in Kurdistan Times in its issue of winter 1990, Mr. Mustafa Qaradaghi states that Gutium or Guti, the ancient Kurds who spoke a branch of Hurrian language, which was also spoken by their kin of Lulu, Kassite, and Mittani. Their capital city was in and around the town of Kirkuk, named Arrapha." (Mazouri 2002)
Furthermore, the denomination Gutian included the Iranic Medes as well: "To their very end in the 6th century BC, on the other hand, the Babylonians loosely (and apparently pejoratively) called {al-}most every body who lived in the Zagros-Taurus system a "Guti", including the Medes!" (Izady 1993)

It is thus clear: an overwhelming majority of scholars from different fields of history, anthropology, ethnography and linguistics identify the modern Kurds as descendants of the ancient Gutians of Sumer.

Abundant evidence supporting the connection between Kurds and Gutians is further provided by toponyms in Kurdistan. In fact, the place-name Mt. Judi and the Kurdish clan of Judikanlu are fossil remnants of the awesome name left behind by the 'Guti', as a researcher notes, "For about two centuries (circa 2,200 to 2,000 BC) the Gutis gained the upper military hand over the Mesopotamian (primarily, Sumerian) states. In an impressive show of force, they succeeded to annex Sumeria to their domain. Apparently they also founded a separate Guti dynasty that ruled from Sumeria for over a century, until they were evicted. In fact, the Biblical- and modern Mt. Judi (between Zakho and Sirnak in north-central Kurdistan) and the Kurdish clan of Judikanlu preserve variant forms of the old name, 'Guti.' " (Izady 1995)

Fig.3: Rendition of the Eanna of Uruk. Pre-Gutian Sumerian architecture favoured gentle curves with slight elevations
Image courtesy Gary Fletcher:
Jats & Gutians
Having established the Gutian-Kurd connection, it remains to prove the Jat-Gutian linkage. Just as Kurdish scholars and historians proudly document their descent from the ancient Gutians, so Jat scholars take pride in their prestigious connection with the heroic Gutians. Thus, eminent Jat historian Dahiya notes the relations between the Jats and the Gutians:
" 11. We may mention that there is evidence to show that the Mauryas were from the ancient Maṇda empire. Much earlier, we find them named as Muru or Mor by the Egyptians and the scriptures. There, these Mores were called Amuru and Amor or Amorites. CAH mentions that the initial vowel, 'a', is added to make pronunciation easier for the Semites, (vol.III, p.194). Thus, the initial vowel 'a' has to be ignored in order to find the correct name of these people and this clearly remains as Mur/Mor. This is the same as the Moor of Europe and the Mor clan of the Jats in India. When they attacked the king of the 11th dynasty of Egypt, they are expressly mentioned as the people from "the land of Djati." We have shown that this land of Djati is the same as the land of the Guti and clearly means the land of the Jats. Thus the { p.132 } Mor/Mur are expressly mentioned as the Jats in the 21st century BC. Naturally, when these people and their brothers from other areas in Central Asia came to India and established the Maurian empire, they did not feel at home and have been called a hot house in India as mentioned above." (Dehiya 1979, p.131-2)

The famed Jat scholar then continues,

"The Chinese were right in stating that the Hiung-nu were a part of the Yue-Che (reads as Guti ) people, and these Guti people had two divisions, the Ta-Yue-Che and the Siao-Yue-Che, exactly corresponding to the Massagetae and Thyssagetae of Herodotus (a classical Greek writer of fifth century BC), meaning the "Great-Jats" and the "Little-Jats" respectively. Almost every tribe of ancient Middle East (West Asia) and Central Asia, is represented among the present day Jats in India." (Dahiya 1980, p.23ff, cited in Dhillon 1994, p.10)
Hewitt also notes the connection between Jats and Goths:
"The Jats ... trace their descent to the land of Ghazni and Kandahar, watered by the mother-river of the Kushika race, the sacred Haetuman.t or Helmand. Their name connects them with the Getae of Thrace, and thence with the Gattons, said by Pytheas to live on the southern shores of the Baltic, the Gaettones placed by Ptolemy and Tacitus on the Vistula in the country of the Lithuanians, and the Goths of Gothland = Sweden. This Scandinavian descent is confirmed by their system of land-tenure, for the chief tenure of the Muttra district is that called Bhagadura, in which the members of the village brotherhood each hold as their family property a separate and defined area among the village lands, according to the customs of the Bratovos of the Balkan peninsula and the Hof-bauers of North-West {p.482} Germany .. The Getae of the Balkans are said by Herod to be the bravest and most just of the Thracians." (Hewitt 1894, p.481-482)

Fig.4: Female Head from Uruk, at Iraq Museum, Baghdad.
Note the joined eye-brows at the top of the head. Joined eye-brows commonly occur in the Iranoid race, from the Jats to the Kurds.
Jat-Kurd Relations: Judikan Kurds descendants of Gutians
Prof. Izady holds that the Judikan clan of Kurds are to be specifically identified as the descendants of the Gutians:

"12. In the 20th century, many hypotheses have been advanced to connect the name Kurd to that of the ancient Hurrian Guti (Hallo, 1971) { 1971 "Gutium", William W. Hallo, RLA iii: 708b-720a.} or the "Kardukhoi" of the Greek historian Xenophon (Cawkwell, 1979), none of which can any longer be maintained in light of discovery of the aformentioned Assyrian stele. The name Guti, at any rate, survives today clearly in the name of the Kurdish clan of Judikan, inhabiting the heartland of the ancient Gutis in southeatern Kurdistan. The "Kardukhoi" who come to subsequently be known as the Gordyene to the classical authors, are none other than the predecessors of modern Girdi clan of Kurds who still reside exactly where the ancient Kardukhoi/Godyene were found. The name "Kurti/Kurd" seem likely to be of Aryan origin *one of the first, in fact, in Kurdistan* instead of the far more common Hurrian clan names encountered at all periods until today and including the Khardukhoi and Guti." (Izady 1993)
The name Judikan is clearly merely a variant of "Jat", further cementing the thesis of a close relationship between the Jats and Kurds.
Prominence of the Irano-Afghan Race in Mesopotamia since Sumerian Times
The Iranic or Irano-Afghan race has dominated the plains of Mesopotamia since Sumerian times, as the learned American anthropologist Prof. C. S. Coon notes,
"The Irano-Afghan race, prominent since Sumerian times in Mesopotamia, is the chief population element in the entire highland territory from the western border of Iran to northern India. " (Coon 1939, "The Mediterranean World: (4) - The Irano-Afghan Race", p.415)
Indeed, Iranic populations appear to have entered the ruling caste of Sumer even prior to the Gutian invasion. Thus, Izady notes, "A startling fact came to light when the Sumeralogist S.N. Kramer's translated a Sumerian tablet revealing that Enmerkar himself a brother of the king of Aratta, and therefore, presumably a native of the Kurdish mountains (Kramer, "Ancient Sumer and Iran: Gleanings from Sumerian Literature," Bulletin of the Asia Institute, 1, 1987)." (Izady 1995) Needless to say, Aratta is the Avestan Aratta, the Arachosia of the Greek invaders, a nation located in eastern Iran. The Aroras of Punjab are widely thought to be a branch of the primordial Arattas or Arachosians.
Red-haired Gutians
Iranics have a high incidence of rufism (red hair), with dark maroon red color being relatively common. The modern Iranic custom of applying henna to redden the hair is in concious emulation of a red-haired ideal, and hearkens back to Scythic customs. This is in contrast to the Nordics, who emulate a blonde ideal. Rufism would thus appear to be one of the traits of the Irano-Afghan race. If the Gutians were Iranic, they should have exhibited rufism, along with minor incidences of blondism. Strikingly, Babylonian linguists have uncovered evidence that the Gutians did indeed have fair har:
"We ought to add that Oppert has an entirely different theory about these Guti. He distincly claims, and quite recently, to have found tablets relating to the sale of slaves of the blond race of the Guti 73 He apparently places the Guti on the Oxus and connects them with the Germanic Goths !" [ 73. See Comptes Rendus, 1895, p.383. ] (Howorth 1901, p.32)
The Subarians and Gutians were also referred to as "namrum", a term generally identified by Sumerologists with "fair-complexioned." Refuting the view that namrum did not denote skin colour, Gelb notes, "For this interpretation of namrum I can find no evidence in Akkadian literature ... It would seem that Speiser's and Ungnad's reaction against the normal interpretation of namrum as 'light (-colored)' was caused by their assumption that Hurrians or Subarians belonged to the Armenoid race, which according to them could hardly be called light-colored." (Gelb 1944, p.43, n.138) Gelb further notes "the fact that Subarian slaves were called 'light', in the sense of 'light-colored'." (Gelb 1944, p.88)
Both Gelb and Kraus (P.Kraus, MVAeG, 36.1 (1932) 59f.) transcribe a passage [rešamtam] na-wi-ir-tam ša in-ki [maḥ]-ra-at (VAS XVI 65.12f.). "a light (-coloured) slave girl who is pleasing to your eye." (Gelb 1944, ibid.)

Further, the learned Woolley confirms that the Gutians were fair-haired: "In the Zagros hills and across the plains to the Tigris, there lived a ... fair-haired ... people akin to the Guti (the Goths) who ... remained in what was afterwards Assyria, the neighbour land to Akkad" (Woolley 1929, p.5, cited in Hoeh 1967, Vol. 2, Ch.1)

In this regard, Lapouge notes (cited by Closson):

"Toward the end of the neolithic there appear in Belgium, England, Italy, Poland and southern Russia brachycephalics of various types who, Lapouge holds, were driven from the central region by the advance of Homo Europaeus that we have just described. The more primitive form of Homo Europaeus - the Finno-Ugrians - were at the same time crowded toward Russia, where their crania are found principally in the small dolmens and kurgans. These people penetrated into Asia by a route south fo the Black Sea; the philologists regard the most ancient language of Babylonia, the Akkadian or Sumerian, as belonging to the Finno-Ugrian group and some ancient Chaldean crania bear out this hypothesis. The Guti of western Persia are described in texts as early as 2000 BC as blond or at least as light (namrutim). The Amorites were probably of this race; the Egyptian monuments show them as blond, tall, dolichocephalic and with prominent aquiline noses; they interred their dead in dolmens of which there are over 700 in the country of Moab." (Closson 1899, p.74)

Fig.5: Ceremonial figure from Tell Asmos. Note the lapis lazuli stones set as blue eyes. Blue eyes are often found in members of the Nordic-Iranian race. Sumerians imported lapis lazuli from northern Afghanistan.

Goths & Gutians
So self-evident are the connections between the Goths and Gutians that the very person who discovered the existence of the Gutian Dynasty, Prof. Scheil, noted this remarkable fact:
"This national or tribal name of Guti, the name of "The Guti Troops (who) carried off the royalty" of the Mesopotamian empire by their conquest of Erech the imperial capital about 2495 BC, was recognized as obviously suggesting 'Goths' by Prof. Scheil, when he announced in 1911 his discovery of the Guti Dynasty in Mesopotamia, and at the same time remarked that "nothing yet proves that they were the ancestors of the Goths. (Academie des Inscript. et Belles Lettres, Comptes Rendus, Paris, , 1911, p.327)" (Waddell 1929, p.358)
The learned Prof. Oppert has also identified the Gutians with the Goths:

"While Prof. Hilprecht has classed them with the Semites, Oppert has suggested, not without some show of reason, that the name "Guti' has an Aryan sound, like Gothi, the Goths, and therefore that the tribe itself may have been of this blood. * [ * ftn. Revue Archaeologique, 1893, p.363] (Brinton 1895, p.94)
Prof. Waddell agrees, and furthermore, identifies the Gutians as members of the dolichocephalic Nordic race:

"The 'Sumerian' ruling people were of the same racial physical type, with the same culture, traditions, religion, writing and language as the Early Aryans, who were of the Aryan, Gothic or Nordic race, and they were identical with the leading stock of the latter. And (p.468) the Early Sumerian kings sometimes called themselves in their monuments in Mesopotamia and in their Indus Colony Gut or Got; whilst one of the leading Sumerian dynasties in Mesopotamia called themselves Guti, Goti or "Goths"." (Waddell 1929, p.467-468)
When one considers that the Iranians are often classed together with Nordics into the "Nordic-Iranian" racial grouping, it becomes clear that the Gutians were of Nordic-Iranian affinities.

Tokharians & Gutians
Eminent scholars have also connected the Tocharians of Sinkiang with the Gutians:
"Not long ago, the British scholar W. N. Henning suggested that the Tocharians be identified with the Gutians, who are mentioned in Babylonian cuneiform inscriptions (in Akkadian, a Semitic language) dating from the end of the third millennium B.C., when King Sargon was building the first great Mesopotamian Empire. If Henning's views are correct, the Tocharians would be the first Indo-Europeans to appear in the recorded history of the ancient Near East. Lexical affinities of Tocharian with Italo-Celtic give evidence that the speakers of the two language families had associated in the Indo-European homeland before the Tocharians began their migration eastward." (Gamkrelidze & Ivanov 1990)
The descendants of the ancient Tokharians are often identified with the modern Thakurs, a caste of Rajputs who boast of their Scythic ancestry and descent from the heroic Tokharii. Baghdad Caliphate chroniclers refer to a state of Tukharistan in the present-day Afghanistan, indicating the survival of the Tokharians in the Kushana mountains. The Tokharians are universally accepted as having spoken an Indo-European language.Tirigan - the last Gutian King with an Indo-European name
As a testimony to their pride in their Iranic descent, the mighty Gutian kings employed Iranic names. For instance, the name of the last Gutian king was Tirigan. Now, 'Tirigan' is clearly an Iranian and Indo-European word, as Waddell notes:

" In the Runes, significantly, this archaic arrow-head form survived (see Plate II, col.18), and the letter is therein called Tyr, which evidently preserves its Sumerian name of Til - l and r being always freely interchangeable dialectically as we have seen. Moreover, Tyr is the Gothic god of the Arrow or god of War, whose name survives in our Tues-day or Tys-day, just as Thurs-day derives from Thor. And Tir is the common Indo-Persian word for 'arrow'." (Waddell 1927, p.47)
Thus, the Gutian kings proudly preserved the memory of their Iranic descent by adopting Iranic names down to the very last monarch.
Guto-Sumerian Renaissance: Neo-Sumerian Revival
The Gutians overthrew the Akkadian dynasty, liberating the Sumerians from the Semitic yoke. The attempt by the fanatical Akkadian rulers to suppress the Sumerian language were rolled back, and a Sumerian renaissance occurred under benevolent Gutian rule. Describing the Sumerian revival under the Gutians, Badawy notes, "The Akkadian dynasty (2350-2150 BC) marked a decisive phase in the Semitization of Mesopotamia, a process which went on in spite of the renascence of Sumerian under the Gutians (2000 BC)." (Badawy 1963, p.200) The Semitists have for long been trying to prove that the Gutian Age was a "Dark Age", in order that they can glorify the Akkadian Age. However, these claims fly in the face of all evidence that the reverse was in fact the case.
Further elucidating the Gutic-Sumerian Renaissance, Sumerologist Kramer notes, "Ur-Bau [founder of the Lagash dynasty of ensis under the Gutians] had three sons-in-law: Gudea, Urgar and Namhani (also written Nammahin), each of whom became ensi of Lagash. Gudea's {p.67} rather immobile face and expressionless features have become familiar to the modern student from the numerous statues of him that have been recovered. Some of these carry long inscriptions recording his religious activities in connection with the building and rebuilding of Lagash's more important temples. From them we learn that, in spite of Gutian domination {?!}, Gudea had trade contacts with practically the entire 'civilized' world of those days ... Gudea's 2 clay-cylinders unearthed at Lagash more than 75 years ago are inscribed with the longest known Sumerian literary work, close to 1400 lines of a narrative composition, ritualistic and hymnal, commemorating his rebuilding of Lagash's main temple, the Eninna. Gudea even reports one important military victory - that over the state Anshan, Elam's neighbour to the South. He also speaks of fashioning a number of cultic and symbolic weapons such as the sharur and maces with 50 heads. This may indicate considerable military activity on his part, although perhaps only as a vassal of the Gutians. Gudea, like his father-in-law, Ur-bau, also controlled the city of Ur, where three of his inscriptions have been unearthed." (Kramer 1963, p.66-67)

Fig.6: Sumerian Ziggurat Artistic reconstruction by Dawn Razor. Contrast the mountain-like structure with the smaller Sumerian shrines.
South African historian Arthur Kemp dismisses the claims of the dogmatic Semitists that the Gutians were illiterate barbarians. On the contrary, he points out that Sumerian civilization reached its height under the Gutians:


The Kingdom of Sumer and Akkad then fell before the first, and by all accounts ferocious, Indo-European invasion - that of the Celts. Known as Gutians in the Middle East, they fell upon the kingdom of Sumer and Akkad less than 100 years after it was established, around the year 2200 BC.

The Gutians sacked and destroyed the mixed Semitic/Mediterranean Sumer and Akkadian civilization and established their own rule and civilization in the region. Soon they had provinces extending right to the Mediterranean Sea itself.

The Gutian invasion sparked a surge in the Sumerian civilization - it was after the Indo-European invasion that Sumerian civilization was to reach some of its greatest heights. These included:

the very first written law code in the world, which is still existent and dates from 2095 BC;
the construction of the great Sumerian pyramids, called Ziggurats (the most famous of which is the Ziggurat at the Sumerian city of Ur, built in 2100 BC) which served as temples and community centers, many of which are still standing today; and
a complex system of canals, weirs and water routes by which the agricultural settlements alongside the rivers were kept irrigated.
After a few generations the Gutians themselves became submerged into the wider population of Sumer, whose great cities and wealth had acted as a magnet for all the surrounding Semitic tribes. Slowly but surely increasing numbers of Semites, as traders, laborers or slaves, were drawn to Sumer, creating over time a mixture of Old European, Semitic and Indo-European peoples. This shows up very clearly in their grave sites and art forms in the wide range of racial features on display." (Kemp 1999, Ch.8)

The primary reason for the construction of huge ziggurats is self-evident: by conquering vast areas into the Sumerian Empire, the Gutians enlarged the economy, increasing the Gross National Product, thereby enabling the construction of much larger edifices and monuments for the glorification of the nation.

Gudea - Patron of Neo-Sumerian Renaissance
Gudea (ca 2142-2122 BC), ensi of Lagash, inaugurated the Sumerian renaissance and ruled Ur on behalf of the Gutian kings. His name itself indicates he was a Gutian. Such a view is not far-fetched, for personal names often indicate the provenance of its bearer. Thus, the personal name Francais is common amongst French-men, while Scott is popular amongst Scotsmen, and von Dachau in Germany indicate ancestry from Dachau. Thus, Gudea can be identified as a Gutian based on his name. Moreover, if he was not a Gutian, it defies comprehension as to why a Sumerian viceroy should choose a name which would lead to him being later on confused with the Gutian invaders. The most logical conclusion is that Gudea himself was likely a Gutian.
Describing Gudea's achievements, a standard history work notes, "During this period when the North was being ruled by the Gutians, Lagash flourished, particularly during the reign of Gudea, who is well-known today through the many statues of him." (Coles 1969, Vol.1, p. 20)

Prof. Cyrus Gordon notes further achievements of ancient Sumer: "The greatness of Sumer can be measured in other spheres, too. Its sexagesimal system has reached us via the exact sciences. Our astronomers still divide the circle into 360 degrees with each degree divisible into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds. The division of the hour into 60 minutes of 60 seconds each is also a legacy of Sumer. Whenever we look at a clock, we are rerninded of our debt to Sumer." (Gordon 1962, p.49)

Fig.7: Ziggurat of Ur. Arthur Kemp describes this image thus: "The main ziggurat at Ur, Mesopotamia, built circa 2,100 BC, shortly after the first major Indo-European invasion. The building was created in the shape of a step pyramid."
Gudea was also father of the ziggurat, with the plan for the ziggurat being revealed to him in a dream:

"His [Gudea's] most remarkable building was a great tower-temple of seven stages erected for his city-god Nimirrud (ie. as we have seen the deified second Sumerian king 'Michael' or 'Cain' and the Nimi of the Indian lists), the plan of which - the origin of the later fashionable 'Ziggurat' temple-towers 1 - was, he says, revealed to him in a dream. [ 1. Earlier small temple-towers of the pre-Sargonic period are found at Nippur and elsewhere. ] " (Waddell 1929, p.379)
Semitic-Sumerian Conflict
Indeed, the Gutians appear to have been initially hailed by the Sumerians as deliverers from the Semitic Akkadian oppressors. The reason given for the Gutian attack on the Akkadians by the Sumerians is the destruction of the main Sumerian religious shrines by the fanatical Akkadian ruler Naram-Sin. The work 'The Curse of Agade,' composed by a Sumerian, indicates the revulsion which the Sumerians felt at this senseless act of Akkadian destructiveness:
"In searching for the causes behind the humiliating and disastrous Gutian invasion, the author comes upon what he thinks is undoubtedly the true answer and informs us of an outrage committed by Naram-Sin, unknown as yet from any other source. According to our author [ of 'The Curse of Agade' ], Naram-Sin had sacked Nippur and committed all sorts of desecrating and defiling acts against Enlil's sanctuary, and Enlil had therefore turned to the Gutians and brought them down from their mountain abode to de - {p.63} stroy Agade and avenge his beloved temple. Moreover eight of the more important deities of the Sumerian pantheon, in order to soothe the spirit of their ruler Enlil, laid a curse upon Agade that it should remain forever desolate and uninhabited. And this, added the author at the end of his work, was indeed the case: Agade had remained desolate and uninhabited." (Kramer 1963, p.62-63)
The destruction of Akkad or Agade by the Gutians was thus viewed through Sumerian eyes as rightful vengeance against those who destroyed the Gods' shrines and temples, and those taking this revenge as rightful liberators of the oppressed Sumerians. Indeed, the conflict between Sumerians and Semites "may explain in part the desecration and destruction of the Ekur at Nippur by Naram-Sin, as described with such bitterness and chagrin by the author of 'The Curse of Agade.' " (Kramer, p.288)

Describing the conflict between Semites and Sumerians, Luckenbill notes, "However, the point that Meyer set out to prove remains unshaken, to wit, that for a thousand years of history, roughly from 3000 to 2000 BC, the Sumerians occupied the southern part of Babylonia (Sumer) and engaged in an almost continuous and losing struggle with their Semitic neighbors immediately to the north. The earlier rivals of the Sumerians were the Akkadians, but they finally went down before another group of Semites, namely the West Semitic Amorites." (Luckenbill 1923, p.3) However, the foreign descent of the Gutians was never forgotten, and the founders of the Ur III dynasty emphasised this fact when expelling the Gutian rulers. Yet, the Neo-Sumerian renaissance was inaugurated by these very Gutian kings.

Zubari Kurds as Descendants of Subareans
The descendants of the historic Subareans are stated by Prof. Izady to be found amongst the Zubari Kurds, who still inhabit the same geographical region as the ancient Subareans:
"The kingdom of Mushku is now believed to have brought about the final downfall of the Hittites in Anatolia. Their name survives in the city of Mush/Mus in north-central Kurdistan of Turkey. The Subaru who operated from the areas north of modern Arbil in central Kurdistan have left their name in the populous and historic Kurdish tribal confederacy of Zubari, who still inhabit the areas north of Arbil." (Izady 1993)
The Enc. Iranica, quoting from Simo Parpola, Neo-Assyrian Toponyms, Alter Orient und Altes Testament 6, Kevelaer, 1970, notes: "Any hostile group could be called Gutian. The Assyrian royal annals use the word Gutians when they refer to Iranian populations otherwise known as the Mannaeans or the Medes (Parpola, p. 138)." (Encyclopedia Iranica; Gutians) Thus, the term "Gutian" referred to Iranic populations in general, and apparently included the Medes as well.

Gutians and the Khatti
The learned Prof. Waddell has uncovered links between the Gutians and the Khatti :

"We now see how throughout the Kha series of words in Sumerian, as in the later Akkad and Aryan languages, the initial K tends to drop out, leaving the H as the initial of the word. Thus the old tribal name of the Goths spelt by the Sumerians and "Hitt-ites" as Khat-ti or Khad-ti, the "Catti' of the pre-Roman Briton coins 3 (and also spelt Kud-ti and Guti ), became by the dropping out of its initial K, "Hatti", the source of the modern name "Hitt-ite." And by the further dropping out of the H - a change also occasionally occurring in Sumerian, Egyptian and modern Aryan dialects, eg. in cockneyisms - it became Atti and Att on the ancient Briton coins.4 [ 3. see WPOB {Waddell, Phoenician Origin of Britons}, 6f.; 200f. 4. Ib. 6f.; 200 f. ]" (Waddell 1927, p.33)
The Irano-Afghan racial background of the Guti is not masked by their language, which could well have been Semitic or related to the Transcaucasian languages:

"Winkler believes that the Guti had a tongue of their own, but wrote in Semitic. Geschichte Babyloniens, p.82. Hilprecht gives reasons for holding that Semitic was the native language of both Guti and Lulubi. Old Babylonian Inscriptions, pp.12-14 (Philadelphia, 1894)." (Brinton 1895, ftn. p.94)
Prof. Derakshani on Gutium
Prof. Derakshani, in a paper published in a prestigious Iranian journal, summarises the history of the Gutians thus:
"4.7.6. Gutium (Qutium), situated in Western Iran, is mentioned already in the presargonic period in a document (ca. 2500 B.C.). The fact that the Guti belonged to the proto-Iranians, is confirmed by their language, which is attested mainly by personal names. According to them the Guti spoke an Indo-European language, which was close to the Tokharian.[158] The relation between the Tokharian and the Aryan is corroborated by linguistic remnants in Tokharian and the grammatical parallels between both languages, while it is also related with Hittite, Greek, Latin and Armenian as well as Baltic and Slavic (see Aryans footnote 854-856). In later periods we come across the Tokharian speaking people, that is the Tokharians, probably calling themselves Tugri, near the border of China, and among the Yhe-chih, which, according to the normal phonetic change in Chinese (after gu ~ yh, ti ~ chi), represent the Guti.[159] So the Guti and the Tukri (see below 4.7.7) of the 3rd millennium B.C., or at least a part of them, should have migrated already early from Western Iran towards the east and settled at the borders of China. A connection between the tribe name Kuch (KaÇ) and kafi 'mountainous people' has been already considered.[160] It is indeed possible to imagine that the Kuchi and Guti derive from the Aryan word-stem for mountain: from the Indo- European roots *keu-, *skeu- 'prolonged' and *keu- 'bend' has developed the IE *keu-k- and *keup- 'vault upwards,' 'hill,' from which then the OI kuchati- curves, kuca- womans breast, Av. kaofa-, OP kaufa-, MP kwf, Pahl. kÇf, NP kÇh mountain, kÇin, hunchbacked, Russ. kucha 'pile,' OHG hof 'yard, good' (originally from the location on the high ground, hill)[161], furthermore the OI notha- 'swelling, rise' are developed, while the MIA NÇpha- swelling could be a contamination of Notha- and Aryan *kaupha-, cf. OIA *kopha- 'hill, mountain' (= Av. kaofa ).[162] So Guti and Quti as well as Kuchi etc. could have belonged to the same root and originally meant mountainous people, which points to their homeland in the mountainous area of the Zagros (cf. the tribe Kuch of the traditional history of Iran[163]). Thus, NP qu... 'ram' means originally animal of the mountain, like Gr. [...] 'billy goat' and Lat. aries 'ram,' which might have meant originally 'animal of the rise (ari-)' (see above 4.2).
{ [158] HENNING 1978, 'The First Indo-Europeans in History,' ULMEN (ed.) 1978, Society and History, Essays in Honour of Karl August Wittfogel: 215-230; for the Indo-European origin of the Gutians cf. also CHRISTIAN 1928, Das erste Auftreten der Indogermanen in Vorderasien, MAGW { Mitteilungen der anthropologischen Gesellschaft Wien } 58: 210-229; SPEISER 1930, Mesopotamian Origins: 101.
[159] HENNING 1978: 221-225; cf. there (p. 222) Yhe-chih in the Middle Chinese (600 B.C.) form ng-wyt-tai* < Old Chinese ng-w|t-p-*(g); see also NARAIN 1987: 8 and passim. { Narain 1987: On the "First" Indo-Europeans: The Tokharian-Yuezhi and their Chinese homeland, Papers on Inner Asia 2, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana.}
[160] Borhoen: 1722b + n. 3; DEHKHODA 1967, Loghatnameh 40: 307a; HAUSSIG (Hrsg.) 1986, Woerterbuch der Mythologie IV: 492.
[161] POKORNY 1959: 587-591. { 1959 Indogermanisches Etymologisches Woerterbuch, 2 Bde., 2. Aufl. 1989, Rieden b. Fuessen. }
[162] KEWA III: 379; IAL, 3521. 12634. }"
(Derakhshani 2001, 4.7.6)

Linguistic Influence on Sumerian
The century-long rule of the Gutians over Sumeria left Indo-European linguistic imprints on the Sumerian language, although the Gutians adopted the Sumerian language of their subjects. Thus, Prof. Cyrus Gordon has noted the "fossil" of Indo-European influence on the Sumerian and Akkadian languages:

As we noted above, Sargon's merchants in Asia Minor summoned him to reassert his power there. This implication that his Akkadian Dynasty had connections in Asia Minor from the start is confirmed linguistically. The Akkadian language, though Semitic, has some Indo-European words imbedded in it, from the very beginnings of recorded Akkadian literature. Whereas other Semitic languages express "in" by the prefix ba-, and "to, for" by the prefix la-, Akkadian is the only Semitic language to express them by in(a) and ana respectively. Akkadian in(a) cannot be dissociated from Greek en or Latin and
{p. 53} English in with the same meaning ("in"). Akkadian ana shares some meanings with Greek atta. Akkadian magal "greatly" is related to Greek megal-os "great-ly." Sometimes the Sumerian anticipates the Akkadian tie-in with Indo-European; thus Sumerian a-gar and Akkadian ugaru, meaning "field," cannot be separated from Indo-European angr-os (Greek), ager (Latin) and Acker (German) "field."

The basic Indo-European vocabulary in Akkadian is due to a process called linguistic alliance. This means only that when two different linguistic groups of people live together, their languages will interpenetrate each other. The above words, embedded in Akkadian and so attested from the first appearance of Akkadian texts, confirm the tradition of the "King of Battle Epic" that Sargon's Akkadian Dynasty had Anatolian connections from the beginning. Since the Akkadian records start around the middle of the third millennium B.C., the formation of the Akkadian language in linguistic alliance with Indo-Europeans in Anatolia must have taken place still earlier." (Gordon 1962, p.52-53)

One way this can be consistently explained is by regarding these as fossils of Gutian rule, the impact of Iranic speakers on Sumerian, unless these are due to influence from Aratta or Anatolia. As a further example, the Gutians used the title of "Shar", a term clearly related to the Old Iranic "Shah". If this term occurs in the Avesta, then this would be clear proof of the Iranic origin of "Shar".

Note on Opponents of the Gutian descent of Gutian Kurds
The concept of the Gutians being barbaric invaders has led to unnecessary consternation on the part of certain modern self-hating Kurds, who hence attempt to disown any connection with the ancient and glorious Gutians. This has been the sad result of relentless Zionist and Semitist propaganda. Thus, one such self-hating Kurd, describing the Gutians as a "non-entity", rants: "No one knows precisely who these Gutis were nor what of their achievements. If the Gutis are such an enigma and culturally such non-entity, why would Kurds want them as their ancestors; why do they point to these Gutis as the defining source to document for their long history?" (Izady 1995) What the author lacks in terms of historical knowledge, he simply makes up for by vehemance and invective.
Adopting the Zionist-Semitist propaganda that the Akkadians were "civilizers", while the Gutians "destroyed Sumeria", the author continues: "In fact, we would never have heard of Gutis either, were it not for their 125-year-long occupation of Sumeria, which in fact forever destroyed Sumeria and the Sumerian society. The rising star of the Semites in Mesopotamia shone brightest under king Sargon I of Agade (Akkadia). Sargon got rid of Sumeria and the "real" Gutis with it some 3,800 years ago." (Izady 1995) Apparently these anti-Kurd authors have not heard of Gudea, and are totally ignorant of the Neo-Sumerian renaissance depicted above.

Continuing his invective, the narrow-minded author notes, "Kurds have been given the one-fits-all Gutis by their intellectuals as a poor excuse for history. In the company of the Gutis, Kurds have become the object of ridicule among those with some knowledge of the real history. In all honesty, how serious would we take a group's claim to antiquity if all they could produce to prove past greatness were a connection to the Philistines? Gutis, great ancestors?!" (Izady 1995) Exclamation marks and polemic serve to inflate the works of these anti-Kurdish "intellectuals".

Needless to say, the views of these self-hating Kurds are against all the facts of scientific inquiry and reason. Strangely, they accept without question the ancient descent of other peoples, such as Greeks and Jews. Indeed, it is the dogma of the Eurocentric school of history that only the Jews and Greeks are direct descendants of ancient peoples, all other peoples have no history. It is not only the Kurds whose history they attempt to deny.

Opposition to the concept of any relationship between the Gutians, Jats and Kurds will continue to come from the followign quarters: the self-hating Kurdish school of history, the dogmatic Zionist-Semitist, the Europeanist Greco-centric and the internationalist Communist schools of historians. The concept of the Kurds being descended from the Gutians has more historical evidence in favour of it than the putative descent of the "Chosen People" from the Israelites, or the modern Greeks from the ancient Hellenes. Much of this has been presented in the present article.

Author would like to thank Profs. Shireen Moosvi, Irfan Habib, Arthur Kemp, Clyde A. Winters, Karl Earlson and U. Abbas for assistance.

Badawy 1963: "The Semites in Ancient History," review, Alexander Badawy, J. of Near Eastern Studies, Vol.22, No.3 (Jul. 1963), p.200-202.
Brinton 1895: "The Protohistoric Ethnography of Western Asia," by Daniel G. Brinton, Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, Vol. 34, No. 147 (Jan. 1895), p.71-102.
Closson 1899: "The Races of Europe," by Carlos C. Closson, The Journal of Political Economy, Vol.8, No.1 (Dec.1899), p.58-88.
Coon 1939: "The Races of Europe," by Carleton Stevens Coon, Prof., Harvard Universtiy, Macmillan Co., New York, 1939, 1954 reprint. (extracts available at ; )
Christian 1928: "Das erste Auftreten der Indogermanen in Vorderasien", Mitteilungen der anthropologischen Gesellschaft Wien (MAGW) vol.58 (1928) p.210-229. Elucidates the Indo-European origin of Gutians.
Coles 1969: "Caxton's History of the World," ed. John Coles, New Caxton Library Series, London 1969.
Dara 2000: "History of Luristan", by Sabah Dara, The Kurdish Tribune 08/12/00, .
Dahiya 1980: "Jats: The Ancient Rulers," by B.S.Dahiya, Ind. Revenue Service, Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd, New Delhi, India, 1980.
Dehiya 1979: "The Mauryas: Their Identity", by B.S.Dehiya, Vishveshvaranand Indological Journal, Vol. 17 (1979), p.112-133. ... auryas.php
Derakhshani 1999: "Die Arier in den nahoestlichen Quellen des 3. und 2. Jahrtausends v.Chr." by Jahanshah Derakhshani, International Publications of Iranian Studies, 2.Auflage, 1999; ISBN 964-90368-6-5, EUR 20,00.
Derakhshani 2001: "Some Earliest Traces of the Aryan: Evidence from the 4th and 3rd Millennium BC," by Jahanshah Derakhshani, Iran & the Caucasus, vol. V, 2001, p.7-26; Softback ISSN 1609-8498, eur. 40,
Dhillon 1994: "History & Study of the Jats with reference to Sikhs, Scythians, Alans, Sarmatians, Goths & Jutes," by B.S.Dhillon, Beta Publishers Inc. 1994, PO Box 46027, 2339 Ogilvie Rd., Gloucestor, Ontario, Canada K1J 9M7.
Easton 1897: "The Illustrated Bible Dictionary", by M.G. Easton, Thomas Nelson, publisher, 1897.
Edmonds 1971: "Kurdish Nationalism," by C.J.Edmonds, Journal of Contemporary History, Vol.6, No.1 Nationalism and Separatism (1971), p.87-97,99-107.
Elphinstone 1946: "The Kurdish Question," W.G.Elphinston, International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944-), Vol.22, No.1 (Jan. 1946), p.91-103.
Gamkrelidze & Ivanov 1990: "The Early History of Indo-European Languages," by Thomas V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov, Scientific American, March 1990, p.110ff, ... le123.html
Gelb 1944: "Hurrians and Subarians," Ignace J. Gelb, The Oriental Institute of the Univ. of Chicago: Studies in Ancient Oriental Cvilizations, No.22. The Univ. of Chicago Press, 1944, 128 pp.
Gordon 1962: "Before the Bible: the Common Background of Greek and Hebrew Civilisations," by Cyrus H. Gordon, Collins, London 1962, extracts at
Hallo 1971: "Gutium", William W. Hallo, Reallexikon der Assyriologie, Bd. iii (1957-72) p.708b-720a, Berlin/New York. Proposes the link between the names "Guti" and "Kurd".
Hennerbichler 2004: "Die Kurden," by Ferdinand Hennerbichler, ISBN 963 214 575 5, pubd by the author, Dr. Ferdinand Hennerbichler, Edition fhe, Albert es Hennerbichler Bt., H-9200 Mosonmagyarovar, Slovakia, 2004; ... hichte.pdf
Henning 1978: "The First Indo-Europeans in History", by Walter B. Henning, in "Society and History, Essays in Honour of Karl August Wittfogel," by G.L. Ulmen (ed.), The Hague/Paris/New York, 1978, p.215-230.
Hewitt 1894: "The Ruling Races of Prehistoric Times in India, South-Western Asia and Southern Europe" by J.F.Hewitt, Archibald Constable & Co. , London 1894; reprint Oriental Publishers, 1488 Pataudi House, Daryaganj, Delhi-6, 1972, Rs. 50.
Hoeh 1967: "Compendium of World History," by Herman L. Hoeh, Dissertation presented to the Faculty of the Ambassador College, 1962, 1967 ed., ... hc2ch1.htm A Christian fundamentalist view of history.
Honigman 2003: "Just Imagine..." By Gerald A. Honigman, Israel Hasbara Committee leaflet, 27 April 2003, ... /010520031
Howorth 1901: "The Early History of Babylonia", Henry H. Howorth, The English Historical Review, Vol. 16, No. 61 (Jan. 1901), p.1-34.
Izady 1993: "Exploring Kurdish Origins," Prof. Mehrdad R. Izady, Kurdish Life, Number 7, Summer 1993, Lecture at Haryard University, 10 March 1993, ;
Izady 1995: "In Guti We Trust," by M. Izady, Nov. 1995, self-published, an anti-Gutian pamphlet.
Jensen 1996: "History Of Turkish Occupation Of Northern Kurdistan," Eric Jensen, Poli. Sci. (Third World Politics), 11/27/96, ... w/2475.htm
Kemp 1999: "March of the Titans - A History of the White Race", Arthur Kemp, Ostara Publications, 1999,
Kramer 1963: "The Sumerians," by Samuel Noah Kramer, Univ. of Chicago Press, 1963.
Luckenbill 1923: "Akkadian Origins," D.D.Luckenbill, The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. 40, No.1 (Oct. 1923), p.1-13.
Mazouri 2002: "The Sum of All Fears," Eamad Mazouri, Kurdistan Observer, May 29, 2002, ... fears.html
Sayce 1895: "Patriarchal Palestine," Archibald Henry Sayce, London 1895; Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, Northumberland Ave., Charing Cross, WC.; 43, Queen Victoria St, EC, London.
Speiser 1930: "Mesopotamian Origins, The Basic Population of the Near East," by E.A.Speiser, Philadelphia/ London. p.101 f.: Elucidates the Indo-European origin of Gutians.
Telek 2003: "Das Volk Ohne Anwalt: Geschichte, Kultur, Literatur und Religion in Kurdistan - eine Einfuehrung," Nazif Telek, Der Auslaenderbeauftragte der Thueringer Landesregierung, Weimardruck GmbH Weimar, 1. Auflage: 500 Exemplare, November 2003, ... oad488.doc
Waddell 1927: "The Aryan Origin of the Alphabet," by L.A. Waddell, Fellow of the Royal Anthropological Institute, Linnean and Folk-Lore Societies, Ex-Proefessor of Tibetan, London University; Luzac & Co., London 1927; reprinted Christian Book Club of America, PO Box 900566, Palmdale CA 93590-0566, USA, 1998.
Waddell 1929: "The Makers of Civilization in Race and History", by L.A. Waddell, Luzac & Co. 1929, reprint S.Chand & Company, P.O.Box No. 5733, Ram Nagar, 7361, New Delhi-110055, 1986, Rs.400,,
Woolley 1929: "The Sumerians," by Charles Leonard Woolley. W. W. Norton, New York, 1929, 1965 reprint; Barnes & Noble 1995 reprint, isbn 1-56619-666-3 hc.

Wow :shock:

Did you REALLY READ ALL OF THAT??? :lol:

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:11 pm
Author: Delal
Yes, I did...and wow it was long, I am definitely going to have to reread it closer and check its references and maybe crack out some of my old history books (I have a undergrad degree in ancient middle east history...not that it helps much because I have forgotten a bunch of what I learned).

The direct link between the Guti and the Goths seems to be a strech, but I will look into it further...and over all I was pretty much going with the flow of the article until I hit the bit about "self-hating Kurds". I guess it just seems that the author has too much of a modern political agenda for an article on ancient history.

I had never heard of the supposed Guti - Kurd link...which was kind of fasinating...why would (as the article's author) suggest that Kurds wouldn't like that ancestor link? I mean if you can prove a solid link, that means that the Kurds can trace their ancestory to a point at and before the invention of writing and written historical records...that is pretty cool if you ask me...but as I said before I am definitely going to read more about it.

thanks Diri for the interesting article you have found.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Author: Diri
You are welcome...

But I don't think he says that Kurds wouldn't be proud of being the Guti's descendants - I read somwhere in that jungle of words that "As much as Kurds are proud of their roots to the Guties are the Jats proud of their roots to the Guties"....

Or something like that...

Have you heard if the Qutils? They are supposed to be the same as the GUTIIES according to that article... I had heard of the Qutil connection...

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:38 pm
Author: Delal
I haven't heard of the Qutils but I have heard of the Gutis...I guess I could see where the name connection could be.

I reread that part and I guess that he is saying that Kurds who deny the connection between them and the Gutis are the victims of Zionist/Semitic propaganda..
here is the quote
The concept of the Gutians being barbaric invaders has led to unnecessary consternation on the part of certain modern self-hating Kurds, who hence attempt to disown any connection with the ancient and glorious Gutians. This has been the sad result of relentless Zionist and Semitist propaganda.

It is curious...because I don't see how a Zionist/Semitist interpretation of history would produce such a result, perhaps he could just be grabbing at straws for a credible explanation? Who knows.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:42 am
Author: Nistiman
Below is the article that has made the above author regard M. Izady as a Kurd-hater:

In Guti we Trust
Prof. M. R. Izady, Cambridge, November 1995
Recently I came across a new and otherwise excellent pictorial book on Kurdish costumes and fabrics. In such a book, nevertheless, the authors had somehow thought it appropriate to dedicate over a third of their accompanying text to Kurdish history. This was not an art history, which could have made its inclusion somewhat justifiable. It was instead a sad attempt at dynastic and political history of the Kurds with little if any resemblance to real history. In this caricature, mythological figures are treated as real persons and Kurds treated as non-Kurds and vice versa. And the starting point of all these "history" is set, of course, at the advent of the ubiquitous, sine qua non, Gutis. What the authors lack in historical knowledge, they simply replace with their pure and refreshing conviction. But, conviction alone makes for poor argument.

I have never known a Kurd who does not believe in the extreme antiquity of his or her nation's history. And yet, when asked, he or she can only conjecture over this presumably long history, with the "Guti" forming the last stop on this Proustian "remembrance of things past."

To Kurds, Gutis have become the source of history, ethnicity, and sentiments regarding their roots. They have even come to believe that the very term "Kurd" (however impossibly) derives from "Guti." In fact Guti has become synonymous with their history-the very embodiment of truth and authenticity; almost a god. But ask a Kurd: "Who were the Gutis?" and none can tell you! No surprise this; as they should not be able to. No one knows precisely who these Gutis were nor what of their achievements. If the Gutis are such an enigma and culturally such non-entity, why would Kurds want them as their ancestors; why do they point to these Gutis as the defining source to document for their long history? Well that is the exact point. To the unknown, one is free to attribute all things, great or small, good or bad-and get away with it.

But who really were the Gutis? Among the many Hurrian-speaking inhabitants of the Kurdish mountains one does find a group by that name (also called Qutil, Quti and the like). They are ascribed by Mesopotamian records to a land, conveniently called after the Gutis, "Gutium." This Gutium was located somewhere in the central Zagros range, between Luristan and Lake Van. For about two centuries (circa 2,200 to 2,000 BC) the Gutis gained the upper military hand over the Mesopotamian (primarily, Sumerian) states. In an impressive show of force, they succeeded to annex Sumeria to their domain. Apparently they also founded a separate Guti dynasty that ruled from Sumeria for over a century, until they were evicted. In fact, the Biblical- and modern Mt. Judi (between Zakho and Sirnak in north-central Kurdistan) and the Kurdish clan of Judikanlu preserve variant forms of the old name, "Guti." So far, so good.

The Gutis were certainly not the only Hurrian-speaking peoples who overflowed the Kurdish mountains into Mesopotamia, but just one of them. What little we know of the language of the Gutis, according to palaeo-linguist Diakonoff, is that it is a Hurrian dialect similar, for example, to Urartian (Diakonoff and Starostin, "Hurro-Urartian as an Eastern Caucasian Language," Münchener Studien zur Sprachwisssenschaft. New Series 12, 1986). Hurrian ancestors of the modern Kurds were already populating entire cities in Mesopotamia (e.g., the twin city of Kesh-Adab) and those on the foothills (e.g., Nuzi/Gasur). By 1,500 BC, these Hurrian multitude had even created a form of pidgin Akkadian to communicated with the Mesopotamian lowlanders. Akkadian tablets speak disparagingly of the Hurrian scribes whose bad usage of the Akkadian they brand "the Hurrian style." At the important, nearby Hurrian urban centers like Arap'he (ancient Kirkuk) one does not even find even the name Guti mentioned in any record. One might argue that Arap'he's archives are only 3,500 years old, and therefore, about 500 years younger than the Gutis. Well, the Sumerian tables commissioned under the famous king Enmerkar about 4,500 years ago, speak at length of the strong economic, religious and political bonds between Sumeria and "Aratta"-the famed, thus far mysterious kingdom in the central Zagros mountains and presumably the heartland of the Gutis. Enmerkar lived about 450 years before the occupation of Sumeria by the mountain peoples we call Gutis. Nowhere, however, does Enmerkar speak of the Guti or mention their land. One might argue that Enmerkar did not know the mountains and mountain dwellers well. But he did.

A startling fact came to light when the Sumeralogist S.N. Kramer's translated a Sumerian tablet revealing that Enmerkar himself a brother of the king of Aratta, and therefore, presumably a native of the Kurdish mountains (Kramer, "Ancient Sumer and Iran: Gleanings from Sumerian Literature," Bulletin of the Asia Institute, 1, 1987). How could he not have heard of the Gutis, if indeed they were a significant military force?

Here is the paradox: No Sumerian had ever seen or heard of a Guti before the Guti occupation of Sumeria. Nor did natives of the Kurdish mountains afterward. In fact, we would never have heard of Gutis either, were it not for their 125-year-long occupation of Sumeria, which in fact forever destroyed Sumeria and the Sumerian society. The rising star of the Semites in Mesopotamia shone brightest under king Sargon I of Agade (Akkadia). Sargon got rid of Sumeria and the "real" Gutis with it some 3,800 years ago.

After Sargon, the Gutis are not seen again. But for the next 1500 years, Mesopotamians call all inhabitants of the Kurdish mountains "Guti" as a derogation.

Let me reemphasize that the Hurrian archives-that is, those of the native inhabitants of the Kurdish mountains-never note the Guti phenomenon. If the native cultures in the mountains did not know the Gutis, and, except for the Sumerians in a single century, nor did any of the lowland cultures in Mesopotamia, then how important could the Gutis really have been? Not very much, I am afraid. If the Gutis were so in consequential, why all the fuss and for so long a time? Gutis became big shots by accident when they inadvertently got mingled with the proverbial "right" people: the Sumerians, who would matter a great deal in millennia to come. Sumerians are the ones whose concerns became eventually the foundations of modern humanity's concerns; their religion and myths the foundation of most subsequent religions and myths. The stories of Noah and the Flood, patriarch Abraham (a native of "Ur of Chaldese"-a capital of Sumeria), even English terms such as "hallelujah" and "abyss" are Sumerian in origin. Therefore, what affected the Sumerians made an everlasting impact on humanity's basic tenets of knowledge and tradition. What pained Sumerians, pained everybody else indirectly-and for a long time to come. Fortune smiled on the obscure Gutis only when they pained the Sumerians.

Many otherwise obscure and insignificant peoples are familiar to us today for no better reason than they pained or pleased the Jews thousands of years ago (and now us through the influence of the Bible and the Koran). Who would have heard of the Edomites, Sodomites, Gomorrahns, Moabites and others had they not been incorporated into Jewish myth and religion? Surely Gutis would have gone forever unknown had they not showed up in Sumeria at the proverbial eleventh hour.

The Akkadians passed the Sumerian legacy to the Assyrians, to the Babylonians and on to us. Thus until the eclipse of Mesopotamia under the Persian dominance in the 6th century BC, the Akkadians, Assyrians and Babylonians called every one they did not like in the mountains "Gutis." Today, still we refer to all ill-mannered people as "Philistines", despite the fact that the ancient Philistines managed to only get on the wrong side of the Jews. But adoption of the Jewish legacy by more than half the world's population since then is accompanied by the disdain for the Philistines, although no one has seen a Philistine in the flesh for about 3,000 years. Remember, the real Vandals only managed to "vandalize" the art and architecture of the imperial Rome. But today, we call all such persons "vandals," being whether American or Armenian, Japanese or Jamaican.

It is the source of delight that Kurdish public feels the need for their history. But it is a disgrace that Kurdish historians and intellectuals have failed to make available their real history-a history which the Kurd can be proud of, and not a "Guti" fantasy.

The "Guti" bug has infected even the Westerners who write about the Kurds-often in flights of fancy. One remarkable example appeared in a draft for a guidebook produced by a Washington-based organization called Access, which received a grant for the publication from the US Institute of Peace. The section on the Kurds contained a chronology that began thusly: "2,400 BC: A nomadic herd [sic] of Guti in the Zagros mountain range"! And this guide was publicized as a resource for the use of "students, scholars, public officials" and the like. Hallelujah.

Writing to dispel the Guti hang-up, I may well be accused of leaving the Kurdish "herd" without a history. But banking on illusions to build reality is like building palaces on the clouds. Kurds have been given the one-fits-all Gutis by their intellectuals as a poor excuse for history. In the company of the Gutis, Kurds have become the object of ridicule among those with some knowledge of the real history. In all honesty, how serious would we take a group's claim to antiquity if all they could produce to prove past greatness were a connection to the Philistines? Gutis, great ancestors?!

With luck, we ought to see less of the Gutis and Guti buffs in the future. The conviction of Kurds regarding their antiquity will inevitably result in restoration of the true history of this ancient people. For where there is demand, there will always be a supplier.


But, anyone who has read the long article on Gutis produced by "Samar Abbas" notices that he has not produced any evidence of the "greatness" of the Gutis or that they are a suitable people to whom we can rest the foundation of the ancestory of the Kurds. His article substantiates the view that little is known of the Gutis and that the best thing they have going for them is that they have similar ancestory with the Goths. After having read his article, nothing convinced me of the need for the Gutis to supplant, for example, the Medes in their connection to the Kurds. And yes, the decision to "create" a noble and great history for the Kurds is a political task not just a historical one. Samar Abbas has put a great burden on his shoulders and has not carried that burden very responsibly.

It was a mistake for Samar Abbas to argue on the premise that M. Izady is working from a Zionist agenda and is a Kurd-hater. M. Izady has done more to ennoble Kurdish history than any other historian.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:43 am
Author: Diri
Hmmm... Thank you Nishtîman... Very interesting article... It makes you think - NEVER trust a one sided story :lol:

Perhaps time to go back to the drawing board? This is what I think is the most reliable source so far: And yes - It is Mehrdad R. Izady :wink:

Exploring Kurdish Origins
by Mehrdad R. Izady (published in the Kurdish Life, Number 7, Summer 1993).
The question of Kurdish origins, i.e., who the Kurds are and where they come from, has for too long remained an enigma. Doubtless in a few words one can respond, for example, that Kurds are the end-product of numerous layers of cultural and genetic material superimposed over thousands of years of internal migrations, immigrations, cultural innovations and importations. But identifying the roots and the course of evolution of present Kurdish ethnic identity calls for greater effort. It calls for the study of each of the many layers of these human movements and cultural influences, as many and as early in time as is currently possible. Presently, at least 5 distinct layers can be identified with various degrees of certainty.

Lithograph. Naples 1818. [ "He was magnificently attired in the Koordish taste: his gown was of a rich, flowered, gold Indian stuff; he had a superb Cashmere shawl ornamented with gold fringe on his head, put on in a wild lo ose manner; his upper dress was a capot, or cloak, of crimson Venetian cloth, with rich gold fogs, or bosses, on it...I could see he was well aware of the advantages of his person.", Narative of a Residence in Koordistan by Claudius James Rich, Esq. Londa n, 1863. --- The Kurdish Museum ---]

l. The earliest evidence thus far of a unified and distinct culture shared by the people inhabiting the Kurdish mountains relates to the period of the 'Halaf Culture' which emerged about 8000) years ago. Named for the ancient mound of Tel Halaf in what is uow Syrian Kurdistan (west of the town of Qamishli), this culture is best known for its easily recognizable style of pottery which, fortunately, was produced in abundance. Exquisitely painted, delicately designed Halaf pottery is easily distinguishable from earlier and later productions. Judging from pottery

In fact, taking Halaf pottery as a prime example, many archaeologists now point out that shared pottery style is a simple but crucial tool in helping to classify prehistoric cultures in the Middle East. Yet, while shared pottery can imply shared culture, it can no more imply shared ethnicity than identical rug designs today. For example, the Turkic Qashqai, Luric Mamasani and Arab Baseri tribes of the southern Zagros mountains all share similar rug patterns. Ethno-linguistically, however, these three peoples share virtually nothing else. This fact serves as a clear warning to those who would use shared artistic styles as an indication of shared ethnicity. More prudently, pottery styles must be taken in tandem with other evidence in order to make a case for shared culture and ethnicity.

Wide-spread Halafian excavation sites have much more in common than styles of pottery. Solid evidence has now emerged indicating striking similarities in food, technology, architecture, ritual practices and ornaments, all of which suggest something more substantive. Archaeologist Julian Reade, now a curator at the British Museum's Department of Western Asiatic Antiquities has this to say: 'While we really know little about how the inhabitants of a Halaf village thought, let alone what language or languages they used for thinking, and what levels of abstraction could be expressed verbally, it seems likely they had comparable social structures, sharing many of the same implicit values, and that even those who did not travel regularly may have met from time to time in religious or administrative centers." (Reade, 1991).

With the aid of these archaeological criteria, Reade as well as Michael Roaf (archaeologist and former director of the British School of Archaeology in Iraq, and now at the University of California, Berkeley) have determined the boundaries of Halaf culture. They coincide almost exactlywith the area ethnic Kurds still call home: from Kirmanshah to Adyaman, and from Afrin near the Mediterranean Sea to northern areas of Lake Van. The distribution of Halaf pottery and the distribution of ethnic Kurds today are a near-perfect match. The single exception is the Mosul-Tikrit region of the Mesopotanian lowlands which also yields Halaf pottery. James Melaart, better known for his excavation of Catal Huyuk, found many of the motifs and composite designs present on Halaf pottery and figurines still extant in the textile and decorative designs of the modern Kurds who now inhabit the same excavated Halafian sites.

It is highly unlikely that the Halafian people constituted an immigrant population. According to several demographic studies (e.g., T. Cuyler Young, 1977; P. Smith, 1971; Bridsell, 1957; and particularly, P. Smith and T. Cuyler Young, 1982) the Zagros mountains were the site of perennial population surplus and pressure from 12000 to 5000 years ago, which must have resulted in numerous episodes of emigration. This population pressure in the Zabros-Taurus folds was a consequence of successive technological advances in domestication of common crops and animals and resulted in a prosperous agricultural economy and trade; therefore high population density. The Halafian phenomenon is likely the result of a massive internal migration that succeeded in culturally unifying the population in Kurdistan.

The fact that Halaf culture spread so rapidly over such a considerable distance across the rugged Kurdish mountains is thought to have been the result of the development of a new life style and economic activity necessitating mobility, namely nomadic herding. All of the pre-requisite technologies had been developed, and essential animals, particularly the dog, had been domesticated by settled agriculturalists. Halafian figures of dogs (ca. 6000 BC) with upcurled tails unlike that of any specie of wolf, were unearthed in Jarmo in central Kurdistan. They provide the earliest definitive evidence of the development of man's "best friend" and the herder's most prized protection. Nomadic herding has since been a very mobile cornerstone of Zagros-Taurus cultures and societies.

2. The Halaf cultural period ends with the arrival, circa 5300 BC, of a new culture, and quite likely a new people: the Ubaidians. 'Ubaid Culture' expanded from the plains of Mesopotamia into the mountains. The Ubaidians, or protoEuphratians, as they are sometimes called, caused a hybrid culture to emerge in the mountains, comprised of their own cultural heritage and that of the earlier Halaf. It predominated in most of Kurdistan and Mesopotamia for the ensuing 1000 years.

Of the language or ethnic affliation of the Ubaidians we know nothing beyond conjecture. However, it is they who gave the names Tigris and Euphrates to the rivers of Kurdistan and Mesopotamia, as well as the names of almost all of the cities we now recognize as Sumerian. The cultural impact of the Ubaidians on the mountain communities could have been vast, though apparently it was not particularly deep.

3. By approximately 4300 BC, a new culture, and possibly a new people, came to dominate the mountains: the Hurrians. Of the Hurrians we know much more, and the volume of our knowledge becomes greaterwith time. We know, for example, that the Hurrians spread far and wide into the Zagros-Taurus mountain systems and intruded for a time on the neighboring plains of Mesopotamia and the Iranian Plateau. However, they never expanded far from the mountains. Their economy was surprisingly integrated and focused, alongwith their political bonds, which ran generally parallel to the Zagros-Taurus mountains rather than radiating out to the lowlands, as was the case during the preceding Ubaid cultural period. Mountainplain economic exchanges remained secondaryin importance, judging by the archaeological remains of goods and their origins.

The Hurrians spoke a language or languages of the northeastern group of the Caucasian family of languages, distantly related to modern Lezgian and, by extension, to Georgian and Laz. The direction of their expansion is not yet understood and by no means should be taken as having been north-south, in other words, as an expansion out of the Caucuses. (It may well be that it was the Hurrians who introduced Caucasian languages into the Caucasus.)

For a long time the states founded by the Hurrians remained small, until around 2500 BC when larger political-military entities evolved out of the older city-states. Four polities are of special note: Urartu, Mushku, Subaru and Guti/Qutil. The kingdom of Mushku is nowbelieved to have brought about the final downfall of the Hittites in Anatolia. Their name survives in the city of Mush/Mus in north central Kurdistan of Turkey. The Subaru, who operated from the areas north of modern Arbil in central Kurdistan, have left their name in the populous and historic Kurdish tribal confederacy of Zubari, who still inhabit the areas north of Arbil. The name of Mount Ararat is a legacy of the Urartu. The Qutils of central and southern Kurdistan, after graduallyunifying the smaller mountain principalities, became strong enough in 2250 BC to actually annex Sumeria and the rest of lowland Mesopotamia. A Qutil dynasty ruled Sumeria for 130 years until 2120 BC.

Two legendary emporia, Melidi and Aratta, served the Hurrians in their inter-regional trade with the economies outside the mountains. With much certainty, Melidi is to be identified with modern Malatya, while Aratta is probably to be identified with the rich Qutil archaeological site of Godin Teppa near Kangawar in southern Kurdistan. By the middle of the 2nd millennium BC, the culture and people of Kurdistan appear to have been unified under a Hur- rian identity. The fundamental legacy of the Hurrians to the present culture of the Kurds is manifest in the realm of religion, mythology, martial arts, and even genetics. Nearly two-thirds of Kurdish tribal, topological and urban names are also likely of Hurrian origin: Buhtan, Talaban, Jelali, Barzan; Mardin, Ziwiya and Dinawar, to name a few. Mythological and religious symbols present in the art of the later Hurrian dynastics such as the Mannaeans of eastern Kurdistan, and the Lullus of the south, present in part what can still be observed in the Kurdish ancient religion of Yazdanism, better known today by its various denominations, such as Alevism, Yezidism, and Yar- sanism (Ahl-i Haqq).

It is fascinatingto recognize the origin of manytattooingmotifs still used by traditional Kurds to decorate their bodies as replicas of those which appear on Hurrian figurines. One such is the combination that incorporates serpent, sun disc, dog and comb motifs. In fact some of these Hurrian tattoo motifs are also present in the religious decorative arts of the Yezidi Kurds.

By the end of the Hurrian period, Kurdistan seems to have been culturally and ethnically homogenized to form a single civilization which was identified as such by neighboring cul- tures and peoples.

4. The portrait of a culturally homogenized Kurdistan was not to last. As early as 2000 BC, the vanguards of the Indo- European speaking tribal immigrants, such as the Hittites and Mittanis, had arrived in southwestern Asia. While the Hittites only marginally affected the mountain communities in Kurdis- tan, the Mittanis settled in Kurdistan and influenced the na- tives in several fields worthy of note, in particular the introduction of knotted rug weaving. Even rug designs intro- duced by the Mittanis and recognizable in Assyrian floor carv- ings remain the hallmark of Kurdish rugs and kelims. The modern mina-khani and chwar-such styles are basically the same as those the Assyrians depicted nearly 3000 years ago.

The Mittanis seem to have been an Indic, and not an Iranic group of people. Their pantheon, which includes names like Indra, Varuna, Suriya, Nasatya, is typically Indic. The Mittanis could have introduced during this early period some of the Indic tradition that appears to be manifest in the Kurdish religion of Yazdanism.

The avalanche of Indo-European tribes, however, was to come about 1200 BC, raining havoc on the economy and settled culture in the mountains and lowlands alike. The north was settled by the Haiks, known to us as the Armenians, while the rest of the mountainsbecame targets of settlement for various Iranic peoples, such as the Medes, Persians, Scythians, Sar- mathians and Sagarthians (whose name survives in the name of the Zagros mountains).

By 850 BC, the last Hurrian states had been extinguished by the invading Aryans, whose sheer numbers of immigrants must have been considerable. They succeeded over time in chang- ing the Hurrian language(s) of the people in Kurdistan, as well as their genetic make-up. By the 3rd centuryBC, the Aryaniza- tion of the mountains was virtually complete.

When the ethnic Medes and Persians arrived on the eastern flanks of the Zagros around 1000 BC, a massive internal migra- tion from the northern and central Zagros toward the southern Zagros was in progress. By the 6th century BC, many large tribes which we now find among the Kurds were also present in the southern Zagros, in Fars and even Kirman. As early as the 3rd century BC, the 'Cyrtii' ('Kurti') are reportedby Greek, and later by Roman authors, to inhabit as much the southern (Persia or Pars/Fars) as the central and northern Zagros (Kur- distan proper). This was to continue for another millenium, when early Islamic sources also enumerate tens of Kurdish tribes in the southern Zagros. In time they were assimilated into the local populations. In fact, this has been a source of puzzlement for many modern writers who now find very few if any Kurds in the southern Zagros. Unaware of the history and extent of Kurdish historical migrations, they often draw the wrong conclusion: that the term 'Kurd' was not an ethnic name, but a designator of all nomads. This facile hypothesis is hardly worthy of refutation since no proof beyond a single, vague phrasc by a medieval writer, Hamza Isfahani, has never been produced to support it.

It is surprising to most that among the Kurds the Aryan cultural legacywas, and still remains secondary to that of the Hurrians. Culturally, Aryan nomads brought very little to add to what they found already present in the Zagros-Taurus region . As has always been the case, cultural sophistication and civilization are almost never associated with a nomadic way of life. In fact, nomads are traditionally thought to be destroyers of sedentary cultures, potential mortal adversaries in the struggle for pos- session of land and political dominance.

The Aryan influence on the local Hurrian Kurdish people must have been very similar to what transpired in Anatolia two thousand years later when Turkic nomads broke in after the battle of Manzikert. In time the Turkic nomads imparted their language to all the millions of civilized, sophisticated Anatolians whom they converted from Christianity to their own religion of Hanafi Sunni Islam. Almost everyone in Anatolia gradually assumed a new Turkish identity along with Islam. This did not mean that the old legacy ceased to exist. On the contrary, the rich and ancient Anatolian cultures and peoples continued their traditional existence under the new Turkish identity, albeit with the addition of some genetic and cultural material brought over by the nomads.

Architecture, domestic and monumental, farming techniques, herding practices, decorative arts and religion remained much the same in Hurrian Kurdistan following Aryan settlernent, while progressively the people came to speak an Iranic lan- guage and to admit new deities into their earlier pantheons. No abrupt changeis encountered inthe culture of Kurdistanwhile, under Aryan pressure, this linguistic and genetic shift was taking place. Nearly every aspect of contemporary Kurdish culture can be traced to this massive Hurrian substructure, with the Aryan superstructure generally quite superficial. Even the Kurdish tactic of guerrilla warfare finds its roots among the Qutils and was later used by the Median Cyzxares in his Assyrian campaigns in 612 BC. In the Bisitun inscription, Darius I also makes note of this battle tactic used by the Kurdish mountaineers against his forces. He called the guerrillas the kara (a cognate of guerrilla). 800 years later, King Ardashir, founder of the Persian Sasanian dynasty, faced the same defensive tactics by the Kurds. The term he used for them is jan-spar which has a meaning almost identical with the modern term,peshmerga.

While many hypotheses have been advanced to connect the ethnic name 'Kurd' to that of the ancient Hurrian Qutils (Hallo, 1971) or the Khardukhoi (Carduchoi) of the Greek historian Xenophon (Cawkell, 1979), none have much merit. Whatever the roots, there is evidence to push the origin of the word 'Kurd' back at least to the early4th millennium BC, if not earlier. Even though I have not personally seen the term used by the old Mesopotamian sources, I was assured by my colleague Piotr Steinkeller, professor of Akkadian and Sumerian languages at Harvard University, of the accuracy of reports of such usage dating back 3800 years. The Akkadian term 'Kurtei' denoted an indeterminate portion or groups of inhabitants of the Zagros (and eastern Taurus) mountains. On the other hand, to their end in the 6th century BC, the Babylonians loosely (and apparently pejoratively) referred to almost everyone who lived in the Zagros-Taurus system a "Qutil," including the Medes! But Babylonian records also attest to many more specific subdivisional names such as the Mardi, Lullubi, Kardaka and Qardu, the last two of which have all been used frequently in the needless controversy over the roots and antiquity of the ethnic term 'Kurd' and the question of the presence of a general ethnic designator.

By the 3rd century BC, the very term 'Kurd' (or rather Kurt) was conclusively established. Polybius (d. ca. 133 BC) in his history reporting the events of 221-220 BC (History, V. 52), and Strabo (d. ca AD 48) in his geography (Geography, V. xi.13.2-3; VII. xv. 15.1), are the earliest Western sources of which I am aware as having made mention of the Kurds with their present ethnic name, albeit in Latinized form, Cyrtii the Kurti. Historians Livy, Pliny, Tacitus and much later, Procopius, also mention this ethnic name for the native population of Media and parts of Anatolia in classical times. Ptolemy inadvertently provides us with an array of Kurdish tribal names when he records them as they appear as toponyms designating their locations. For example, Bagraoandene for the Bagrawands or Bakrans of Diyarbakir, Belcanea for the Belikans of Antep, Tigranoandene for the Tirigans of Hakkar, Sophene for the Subhans of Elazig, Dersene for the Darsimis and Bokhtanoi for the Bohtans (Bokhtans), etc. These tribes are still with us today.

The northern Zagros and Anatolia once teamed with a variety of related groups who spoke Iranic tongues. About 2000 years ago, many, such as the Iranic Pontians, Commagenes, Cappadocians, Western Medes and Indic Mitannis (like the earlier Hurrian Mannas, Lullubis, Saubarus, Kardakas and Qutils) had been totally absorbed into a new Kurdish ethnic pool. They are among the many mountain inhabiting peoples whose assimilation genetically, culturally, socially and linguistically formed the contemporary Kurds. Kurdish diversity of race, tradition and spoken dialects encountered today point in the direction of this compound identitv.

Reflecting on the gradual assimilation of one of these groups into the larger Kurdish ethnic pool, Pliny the Elder (d. AD 79) tries to reconcile what appeared to him to be a name change for a familiar people. Enumerating the nations of the known world, he states, "Joining on to Adiabene (central Kurdistan centered on Arbil) are the people formerly called the Carduchi and now the Cordueni, past whom flows the river Tigris..." (Natural Histor VI. wiii. 46).

These Carduchi mentioned by Pliny are the same people whom Xenophon and his ten thousand Greek troops encountered nearly three centuries earlier when retreating through Kurdistan in 401 BC. Xenophon called them the Kardukhoi. The name is the same as that of Kardaka (the people who provided a portion of the Babylonian royal guards before 530 BC), and the ,Qarduim mentioned frequently in the Talmud.

From the time the Kurds are Aryanized until the 16th century of our era Kurdish culture remained basically unchanged despite the introduction of new empires, religions and immigrants. The Kurds remained essentially the followers of the ancient Hurrian religion of Yazdanism and spoke an Iranic language that medieval Islamic sources termed Pahlawani. Pahlawani survives today in the dialects of Gurani and Dimili (Zaza) on the peripheries of Kurdistan. Only the loss of the southern Zagros, via metamorphosis of Kurds into Lurs, and the expansion of Kurds into the Alburz, Caucasus and Pontus mountains are noteworthy events.

5. After the Aryan settlement, Kurdistan continued to receive new peoples and cultural influences, none however stronger than the Aryan influence in altering Kurdish cultural and ethnicidentity. Large numbers of Aramaic-speakingpeople never seem to have settled in Kurdistan, although through the introduction of Judaism, and later Christianity, many Kurds of central and northern Kurdistan relinquished Kurdish and spoke Aramaic instead. It is fascinating to note in examining contemporary Kurdish culture that Judaism appears to have exercised a much deeper and more lasting influence on indigenous Kurdish culture and religion than Christianity, despite the fact that most ethnic neighbors of the Kurds between the 5th and 12th centuries were Christians.

The role of the Arabs and the impact of Islam on Kurdish society and culture is less difficult to survey. The Arabian peninsula was experiencing a runaway population explosion when the advent of Islam translated that pressure into a massive outburst of Arabian nomads and brought about their settlement of foreign lands. In Kurdistan Arab tribes settled near almost every major town and agricultural center. By the 10th century, the Islamic historians and geographers report Arabian populations living among the Kurds from the northern shores of Lake Vanto Dinawar andfrom HamadantoMalatya. These eventually assimilated, leaving behind only their genetic imprint (as the darker-complexioned city Kurds) and little else. The same was true of the Turkic settlement of Kurdistan and its cultural influence . Several centuries of Turkic nomadic passage through Kurdistan, beginning with the 12th century, rained havoc on the settled Kurds and their economy, as Aryan migrations had done some 2000 years earlier. The Turkic cultural legacywas in itself nil, but the forces of internal change it unleashed within Kurdish society turned out to be nearly as decisive as the Aryan invasion and settlement. Kurdistan would surely have been Turkified under this tremendous nomadic pressure and destructiveness, had it not been for the Kurdish nomads, the Kurmanj, who switfly came out of the Hakkari highlands to fill nearly every niche left vacant by the agriculturist Kurds and less energetic nomads. The Turkic nomads were primarily steppe nomads, and proved less of a match for the Kurmanj mountain nomads in the rough terrain of Kurdistan. Some Kurds were Turkified to be sure; e.g., the tribes of Dumbuli, Barani, Shaqaqi and Jewanshir. Conversely, many Kurdish tribes with Turkic names (e.g., Karachul, Chol, Oghaz, Devalu, Karaqich, Chichak) are in fact assimilated Turkish and Turkmen tribes who left behind only their names and were in every other respect Kurdified.

This massive tribal dislocation that could have subsided over time took a new and more destructive turn by the advent of a century-long holocaust in Kurdish and Armenian territories in eastern Anatolia in the 16th century. The decisive turn for massive nomadization of the Kurds was made by the long Perso-Ottoman wars and particularly the Safavids"'scorchedearth" policy. More important still was the deadly economic blow brought about by the shift to sea transport of East-West commerce which also commenced at the turn of the 16th century. Together they heralded the beginning of the end for much of the social fabric and sophisticated culture of Kurdistan as it had existed since the time of the Medes. The agriculturalist, urban based Kurdish culture and society was to shift to a nomadic economy under a newly assumed identity. The nomadized Kurdish farmers eventually accepted Shafiite SunniIslam from the Kurmanj nomads andbegan speakingthe vernacular of Kurmanji a close kin to the old Pahlawani. In time the older Kurdish society - religion and language notwithstanding -was marginalized and physically pushed to the peripheries of Kurdistan. At present, nearly three quarters of the Kurds speak various dialects of Kurmanji and similar numbers practice Shafute Sunni Islam. In a sense, the "Kurmanj" assimilated the "Kurds" and in the process they assumed the old ethnic name and inherited all that was left of the older culture .

There is, as should be expected, a strong correlation between the practice of the ancient Yazdani religion and the speaking of Pahlawani, as there is also a close connection betweenbeing a Muslim and speaking Kurmanji. The shift from the former to the latter identity in Kurdistan is accelerating and seems very likely to totally submerge the residual Pahlawani-Yazdani identity of the older Kurdistan. Only a shrinking number of Kurds still speak Pahlawani in the form of the dialects of Dimili (pejoratively known as Zaza) in far northwestern Kurdistan in llurkey, and as Gurani, Laki and Awramani in southern Kurdistan in Iran and Iraq. The old religion of Yazdanism too is still practiced as Alevism, Yezidism and Yarsanism (Ahl-i-Haqq). but these too are shrinking in number.

With the introduction of modern communication systems into Kurdish society, the process of cultural and ethnic homogenization of the Kurds has inevitably accelerated. The last step in the evolution of Kurdish cultural and ethnic identity is near completion today. Kurdish ethnic identity is thus destined to comprise Kurmanji-speaking, Shafiite Muslim people, the last layer to be added to the many former layers which, in combination, render the Kurds what and who they are today: heirs to millenia of cultural and genetic evolution of the native inhabitants of the Zagros-Taurus systems.

Mehrdad Izady

Lecture, Haryard University, 10 March 1993.







And this is another reliable source - which pretty much says the same as Mr. Mehrdad:


Being the native inhabitants of their land there are no "beginnings" for Kurdish history and people. Kurds and their history are the end products of thousands of years of continuous internal evolution and assimilation of new peoples and ideas introduced sporadically into their land. Genetically, Kurds are the descendants of all who ever came to settle in Kurdistan, and not any one of them. A people such as the Guti, Kurti. Mede, Mard, Carduchi, Gordyene, Adianbene, Zila and Khaldi signify not the ancestor of the Kurds but only an ancestor.

Archaeological finds continue to document that some of mankind's earliest steps towards development of agricultural. domestication of many common farm animals(sheep, goats, hogs and dogs). record keeping (the token system), development of domestic technologies (weaving, fired pottery making and glazing), metallurgy and urbanization took place in Kurdistan, dating back between 12,000 and 8.000 years ago.

The earliest evidence so far of a unified and distinct culture (and possibly, ethnicity) by people inhabiting the Kurdish mountains dates back to the Halaf culture of 8,000-7,400 years ago. This was followed by the spread of the Ubaidian culture, which was a foreign introduction from Mesopotamia. After about a millennium, its dominance was replaced by the Hurrian culture, which may or may not have been the Halafian people reasserting their dominance over their mountainous homeland. The Hurrian period lasted from 6,300 to about 2,600 years ago. Much more is known of the Hurrians. They spoke a language of the Northeast Caucasian family of languages (or Alarodian), kin to modern Chechen and Lezgian. The Hurrians spread far and wide, dominating much territory outside their Zagros-Taurus mountain base. Their settlement of was completed-all the way to the Aegean coasts. Like their Kurdish descendents, they however did not expand too far from the mountains. Their intrusions into the neighboring plains of Mesopotamia and the Iranian Plateau, therefore, were primarily military annexations with little population settlement. Their economy was surprisingly integrated and focused, along with their political bonds, mainly running parallel with the Zagros-Taurus mountains, rather than radiating out to the lowlands, as was the case during the preceding (foreign) Ubaid cultural period. The mountain-plain economic exchanges remained secondary in importance, judging by the archaeological remains of goods and their origin.

The Hurrians-whose name survives now most prominently in the dialect and district of Hawraman/Awraman in Kurdistan-divided into many clans and subgroups, who set up city-states, kingdoms and empires known today after their respective clan names. These included the Gutis, Kurti, Khadi, Mards, Mushku, Manna, Hatti, Mittanni, Urartu, and the Kassites, to name just a few. All these were Hurrians, and together form the Hurrian phase of Kurdish history.

By about 4.000 years ago, the first van-guard of the Indo-European-speaking peoples were trickling into Kurdistan in limited numbers and settling there. These formed the aristocracy of the Mittani, Kassite, and Hittite kingdoms, while the common people there remained solidly Hurrian. By about 3,000 years ago, the trickle had turned into a flood, and Hurrian Kurdistan was fast becoming Indo-European Kurdistan. Far from having been wiped out, the Hurrian legacy, despite its linguistic eclipse, remains the single most important element of the Kurdish culture until today. It forms the substructure for every aspects of Kurdish existence, from their native religion to their art, their social organization, women's status, and even the form of their militia warfare.

Medes, Scythians and Sagarthians are just the better-known clans of the Indo-European-speaking Aryans who settled in Kurdistan. By about 2,600 years ago, the Medes had already set up an empire that included all Kurdistan and vast territories far beyond. Medeans were followed by scores of other kingdoms and city-statesQall dominated by Aryan aristocracies and a populace that was becoming Indo-European, Kurdish speakers if not so already.

By the advent of the classical era in 300 BC. Kurds were already experiencing massive population movements that resulted in settlement and domination of many neighboring regions. Important Kurdish polities of this time were all by-products of these movements. The Zelan Kurdish clan of Commagene (Adyaman area), for example, spread to establish in addition to the Zelanid dynasty of Commagene, the Zelanid kingdom of Cappadocia and the Zelanid empire of PontusQall in Anatolia. These became Roman vassals by the end of the first century BC. In the east the Kurdish kingdoms of Gordyene, Cortea, Media, Kirm, and Adiabene had, by the first century B C, become confederate members of the Parthian Federation.

While all larger Kurdish Kingdoms of the west gradually lost their existence to the Romans, in the east they survived into the 3rd century A D and the advent of the Sasanian Persian empire. The last major Kurdish dynasty, the Kayosids, fell in AD 380. Smaller Kurdish principalities (called the Kotyar, "mountain administrators") however, preserved their autonomous existence into the 7th century and the coming of Islam.

Several socio-economic revolutions in the garb of religious movements emerged in Kurdistan at this time, many due to the exploitation by central governments, some due to natural disasters. These continued as underground movement into the Islamic era, bursting forth periodically to demand social reforms. The Mazdakite and Khurramite movements are best-known among these.

The eclipse of the Sasanian and Byzantine power by the Muslim caliphate, and its own subsequent weakening, permitted the Kurdish principalities and "mountain administrators" to set up new, independent states. The Shaddadids of the Caucasus and Armenia, the Rawadids of Azerbaijan, the Marwandis of eastern Anatolia; the Hasanwayhids, Fadhilwayhids, and Ayyarids of the central Zagros and the Shabankara of Fars and Kirman are some of the medieval Kurdish dynasties.

The Ayyubids stand out from these by the vastness of their domain. From their capital at Cairo they ruled territories of eastern Libya, Egypt, Yemen, western Arabia, Syria, the Holy Lands, Armenia and much of Kurdistan. As the custodians of Islam's holy cities of Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem, the Ayyubids were instrumental in the defeat and expulsion of the Crusaders from the Holy Land.

With the 12th and 13th centuries the Turkic nomads arrived in the area who in time politically dominated vast segments of the Middle East. Most independent Kurdish states succumbed to various Turkic kingdoms and empires. Kurdish principalities, however, survived and continued with their autonomous existence until the 17th century. Intermittently, these would rule independently when local empires weakened or collapsed.

The advent of the Safavid and Ottoman empires in the area and their division of Kurdistan into two uneven imperial dependencies was on a par with the practice of the preceding few centuries. Their introduction of artillery and scorched-earth policy into Kurdistan was a new, and devastating development.

In the course of the 16th to 18th centuries, vast portions of Kurdistan were systematically devastated and large numbers of Kurds were deported to far corners of the Safavid and Ottoman empires. The magnitude of death and destruction wrought on Kurdistan unified its people in their call to rid the land of these foreign vandals. The lasting mutual suffering awakened in Kurds a community feeling a nationalism, that called for a unified Kurdish state and fostering of Kurdish culture and language. Thus the historian Sharaf al-Din Bitlisi wrote the first pan-Kurdish history the Sharafnama in 1597, as Ahmad Khani composed the national epic of Mem-o-Zin in 1695, which called for a Kurdish state to fend for its people. Kurdish nationalism was born.

For one last time a large Kurdish kingdom-the Zand, wa s born in 1750. Like the medieval Ayyubids, however, the Zands set up their capital and kingdom outside Kurdistan, and pursued no policies aimed at unification of the Kurdish nation. By 1867, the very last autonomous Kurdish principalities were being systematically eradicated by the Ottoman and Persian governments that ruled Kurdistan. They now ruled directly, via governors, all Kurdish provinces. The situation further deteriorated after the end of the WWI and dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

The Treaty of Sevres (signed August 10, 1921) anticipated an independent Kurdish state to cover large portions of the former Ottoman Kurdistan. Unimpressed by the Kurds' many bloody uprisings for independence, France and Britain divided up Ottoman Kurdistan between Turkey, Syria and Iraq. The Treaty of Lausanne (signed June 24, 1923) formalized this division. Kurds of Persia/Iran, meanwhile, were kept where they were by Teheran.

Drawing of well-guarded state boundaries dividing Kurdistan has, since 1921, afflicted Kurdish society with such a degree of fragmentation, that its impact is tearing apart the Kurds' unity as a nation. The 1920s saw the setting up of Kurdish Autonomous Province (the "Red Kurdistan") in Soviet Azerbaijan. It was disbanded in 1929. In 1945, Kurds set up a Kurdish republic at Mahabad in the Soviet, occupied zone in Iran. It lasted one year, until it was reoccupied by the Iranian army.

Since 1970s, the Iraqi Kurds have enjoyed an official autonomous status in a portion of that state's Kurdistan. By the end of 1991, they had become all but independent from Iraq. By 1995, however, the Kurdish government in Arbil was at the verge of political suicide due to the outbreak of factional fighting between various Kurdish warlords.

Since 1987 the Kurds in Turkey by themselves constituting a majority of all Kurds in Turkey have waged a war of national liberation against Ankara's 70 years of heavy handed suppression of any vestige of the Kurdish identity and its rich and ancient culture. The massive uprising had by 1995 propelled Turkey into a state of civil war. The burgeoning and youthful Kurdish population in Turkey, is now demanding absolute equality with the Turkish component in that state, and failing that, full independence.

In the Caucasus, the fledgling Armenian Republic, in the course of 1992-94 wiped out the entire Kurdish community of the former "Red Kurdistan." Having ethnically "cleansed" it, Armenia has effectively annexed Red Kurdistan's territory that forms the land bridge between the Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia proper.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:39 am
Author: Mosul
whoa whoa, to many words there for me to read :) i heard that the name Kurd used to refer to any nomadic people from iran, and later on it was olny refered to naomadic people from western Iran. it makes sense.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:48 pm
Author: Delal
Ok, the last 3 articles were more comfortable with what I had learned in school.

The Halaf culture is quite fasinating and as Micheal Rolf (I've met him!) pointed out, it can not be just a concidence that the areas marked as Halaf also happen to be the same terrority as modern-day Kurdistan. Actually when I first went to work in Diyarbakir it was on an archaeological site that was Halaf. I buy the Halaf connection much much more than the Guti thing.

The first article, while interesting, does seem to be trying to play the modern history/politics game with archeaology, which doesn't mix in any sense and should never be done. Turkey is notorious for using modern politics within archaeology. If you are on a dig there you must pay a representative from the Turkish government to watch you. You must pay for his room and board, plus his salary. He is supposed to watch what you are going, your interaction with the workers, and the artifacts that you are pulling out of the ground. If he doesn't like anything, and I mean anything that you are doing (I got molested by one of them) they have the power to shut the dig down. They also can call the military in to "clean up" things--there are many stories of digs in the Van region finding skeletons...which is normal on any dig, if they have a cresent around their necks the skeletons are treated as examples of the great Turkish ancestor, if a burial is found with a cross around their neck (most likely Armenian) the military wisk the bones away and you are forbidden to mention it in any formal records.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:35 pm
Author: kardox
hi diri, I almost read it all ;)

Did you knew that we have a tribe with the name Guei? I wonder if you could draw some parallels between the 2 names ;)

I know for instance that the Mittanies are the forefathers of the sindi tribe ;)


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:08 pm
Author: Diri
Hehehe Guei?

Funny brother... :lol:

I have the book called "Ashiretler Raporu" in Turkish... I guess I can look it up as this book is one which contains the general info for all tribes of Northern Kurdistan, Most of South Kurdistan and some in West and Eastern Kurdistan... My tribe is enlisted too :lol: - but the list is by geographical areas - so if you have that info for me I could check up that name "Guei" - The Guti have left their name on the Mountain "Chudî" not so far from the Iraqi-Turkish border in Northern Kurdistan...

So is that perhaps where that tribe is too? :roll:


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:38 am
Author: kardox
yes thats is right , they are right there on the other side og the border. around slopi and ciziyre I think.
:lol: :lol: i know why i lough when I say Guei , but it is not the samme in kurdish :lol: :lol:


Re: The origin of the name "KURDÎ" = "GUTI"

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:18 pm
Author: Anthea
Very interesting and well worth reading :ymapplause:

Re: The origin of the name "KURDÎ" = "GUTI"

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:21 pm
Author: Serbona
KURDI - SURDI that is the only hiden truth, our old Serbian people

Re: The origin of the name "KURDÎ" = "GUTI"

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:02 pm
Author: Anthea
Serbona wrote:KURDI - SURDI that is the only hiden truth, our old Serbian people

Hi Serbona :ymhug:

Please tell us more about the KURDI - SURDI connection :D