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Peshmerga

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Wed May 25, 2011 11:27 pm

@thearabchildren
Sorry, but I will sleep now so I won't reply to your posts soon. Expect a reply tomorrow.


The Lebanese arrested a guy for spying for "Israel", who has been well-funded by the House of Saud: http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/13197

Again, would love to hear how Kerdoğan is going to go against "Israel" to please the Arab "leadership". :lol:

You are also free to google the phrases "saudi-israeli" or "israeli-saudi" (in quotes, with a dash, just as I just wrote them) and tell me what you think about the results.

Oh, and if you choose to pretend Saudi Arabia doesn't have tremendous influence in the region, you are free to explain why you never hear heads of state in the region criticise Saudi Arabia's well-known and extensive human rights abuses, but they will for example criticise Iran, Syria, etc.
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Re: Peshmerga

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: Azamat » Thu May 26, 2011 3:00 pm

thearabchildren wrote:The "leaders" of which are also more or less interested in strong economic ties with "Israel", especially the ones Kerdoğan is close with. And even if they weren't, they are controlled by the U.S.

All these Arab-Israeli relations are entirely superficial, since they are/were mostly maintained by US-appointed dictators who do not represent the people's opinion on Israel. There's no ideological support for Israel coming from the Arab people at all(why would they?), and I'm very skeptical as to how long their leaders manage to maintain these relations. Turkey is aware of this, and presently maintaining ties with Israel itself, it's gradually improving it's democracy, which will in no way promote the relations with Israel.

Again, I disagree. It's not "Islamically-rooted", as "Islam" has no ideological beef with Zionism: Zionism didn't exist at any point until recently. Muslims have a problem with Zionism, but so does most everyone else (including a great many Jews).

The yearning for Israeli independence and return to the 'promised land' preoccupied many Jews long before the arrival of Zionism, and the Palestinians were aware of that. The Zionists themselves launched their struggle mainly in the name of religion(promised land), and since Palestine(present day Israel) is very important for Muslims because of its rich Islamic heritage, a Jewish state on these lands(Zionism) is considered by many Palestinians to be a direct humiliation to their religion. One millenium ago, the Muslims on these very lands were attacked by Christians too, who fought in the name of religion aswell(crusades) and because Israel is a prominent part of the present-day western world, many Muslims see the presence of Israel as a continuity of the western attack. Their religion is an important layer in their identity, and some even regard their war against Israel as a broader religious conflict between Islam and Judaism/Christianity.

The origins of the Palestinian cause were nationalist (against the Young Turk movement, then the British) and most of the resistance to the Zionists was carried out by secular Communists for most of its history, with a few disastrous exceptions. In other words: It's not "still" "Islamically-rooted", it has become Islamically-flavoured more and more in response to the increasing religiosity within "Israeli" society (since the capture of the Kothel in the 1967 war).

Even if their cause has its origins in nationalism, the conflict with Israel has also been motivated by religion from the very beginning, and it's starting to be the main designation of the conflict. As I stated above, because of the tragic history in Palestine/Israel which was always brought on by religion, many Palestinians tend to relate their conflict with Israel to Islam.

I hope I did not offend you anywhere in my post, since "Israel" is a very sensitive issue to both Jews and Arabs.

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Thu May 26, 2011 3:13 pm

First off mate, I think what you're missing is the core of my argument: That you are basically buying Kerdoğan's lies. The man does not care about the people, and he certainly doesn't care about the Arab people. He cares about making it look and only look like he is opposed to the Zionist state's behaviour. He has succeeded stupendously with the Turkish masses in selling this lie, so why should he change anything? Because of the uprisings across the Arab world? Do you honestly think he supports those? Have you not noticed the strong efforts by the U.S./Saudi Arabia/"Israel" to make the result of these uprisings cosmetic changes? Do you think Kerdoğan wants anything more than cosmetic change on any front?

Azamat wrote:All these Arab-Israeli relations are entirely superficial, since they are/were mostly maintained by US-appointed dictators who do not represent the people's opinion on Israel.


Nor does Kerdoğan, and the superficial relations are based on money, which is Kerdoğan's primary concern, so you can't just brush them aside.

I'm very skeptical as to how long their leaders manage to maintain these relations.


Probably about as long as "Israel" can continue to exist in its present state. Any Arab states whose populations can actually force their leadership to be a real economic or military threat to "Israel" will be no friend to Kerdoğan and his U.S./E.U. business interests. Again, have you noticed how when Kerdoğan and his wife speak out for the Arab children they so pretend to love that it is always those in a republic, never in a monarchy?

The yearning for Israeli independence and return to the 'promised land' preoccupied many Jews long before the arrival of Zionism, and the Palestinians were aware of that. The Zionists themselves launched their struggle mainly in the name of religion(promised land),


Wrong, lies, and I'm offended as a Jew to have you lie about my faith. You have falsely conflated two unrelated ideas, as is typical of the same Europeans who funded and created Zionism. I will provide you with a reading list about the history of Zionism as a private message.

a Jewish state on these lands(Zionism) is considered by many Palestinians to be a direct humiliation to their religion.


Again, most Palestinians at the time of the mandate made very clear what their problem with Zionism was: They were afraid they were going to lose the very land they lived on. I wonder where they got that crazy idea.

many Muslims see the presence of Israel as a continuity of the western attack.


As do many Christian Arabs and many Orthodox Jews.

and some even regard their war against Israel as a broader religious conflict between Islam and Judaism/Christianity.


Yes, but far more regard Palestinian Christians as their allies in a war against the state which continues to drive them off their land, year after year.

Even if their cause has its origins in nationalism, the conflict with Israel has also been motivated by religion from the very beginning, and it's starting to be the main designation of the conflict. As I stated above, because of the tragic history in Palestine/Israel which was always brought on by religion, many Palestinians tend to relate their conflict with Israel to Islam.


A minority though. And an even smaller minority if the universally recognised right of return was finally given to the Palestinians. Also, the religious elements came, again, mostly from the Jewish side and mostly after the establishment of the Zionist state, for various reasons, most of which contradict your assumption that the Jewish religion is predisposed to some form of Zionism. The religious flavour was largely added to placate religious Jews who saw early Zionism as the worst heresy imagineable, and many still maintain this position today.
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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: Azamat » Thu May 26, 2011 3:25 pm

ideas wrote:There are several factors here:-

1. US wants Iraq to stay as it is (at least for now) so that it is not viewed as the country that invaded and split the country, and also for political assistance from the Kurds.

I don't think the US should expect any political assistance from the Kurds. Iraq is a totall mess of inter-ethnic hostility and the Kurds are not very practical for acting as middle-men.
2. A big chunk of water that passes through to Iraq comes from Kurdistan, so the Iraqis would rather it stay in 'one country' even if they don't have any control.

If you are referring to the Tigris, well, I'm afraid Turkey, with all its dams, has assumed total control over that river, as is the case with the Euphrates. Turkey will enforce its power on these rivers, so to Iraq it won't matter if Kurdistan becomes independent, because the Tigris has been spoiled already.
3. Eventually Kurdistan will export a lot of oil/gas which will contribute to the Iraqi economy.

According to some politician's agenda, yes. But these foresights are all entirely theoretical, and the way the Arab-Kurdish relations are going right now, I cannot see the KRG and central Iraq engaging in such cooperation.
4. We are keeping Iraq together, if we leave the shia will form an overall majority in terms of MPs in government and so if that were to happen the Shia would not need to negotiate with the Sunni at all and in effect take Iraq back to 2007 in terms of violence and possibly even split it into 2 smaller states.

The governmental make-up of Iraq is entirely formed by nepotism, and unless we engage in that aswell, we have no influence on Sunni-Shia matters. If we leave, the Sunnis will probably just look for another middle-man; maybe the Assyrians or Turkmens.
5. The 'Turkish' border is fully shared with Kurdistan and some oil pipelines pass through that border.

I'll have to agree with you on that one. That is a practical reason for Iraq to withhold KRG from independence.

All the above (including many more) points contribute to the fact that Kurdistan can say 'well if you want us to stay for these reasons, we will stay on our terms' and I must admit, although we're not on maps our situation is much better than most independent countries as we have all the rights of an independent country + access to Iraqi services (Government posts, etc) and the protection of a 'federal region' from the international community! for example one recent privilege is that Baghdad will pay for our peshmerga forces, and it is mentioned in the Iraqi budget this year.

All these privileges and protections come at a price. Nations who don't have their own independent state have no international significance whatsoever. Being an Arab League member(which directly concerns us), Iraq is designated as an Arab country, and it will continue to be regarded and treated like an Arab country by the outside world, and we are subjected to that. I stand by the fact that we are a major Middle-Eastern nation, and we need representation. Therefore it is our right to be independent.

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: ideas » Thu May 26, 2011 5:23 pm

Azamat wrote:I don't think the US should expect any political assistance from the Kurds. Iraq is a totall mess of inter-ethnic hostility and the Kurds are not very practical for acting as middle-men.


And why should the US help us? nothing comes for free, and you are under-estimating the influence we have in Baghdad! you see after the elections we became 'kingmakers' becuase we had enough seats to either create a government with the shia, or sunni if however we were not in Iraq the shia Arab would be an overall majority and the sunni (with minorities such as Turkmen and Assyrian whom already vote for the sunni lists) will not be able to form a government hence taking Iraq back to the year 2007.

After the recent elections there was no government in Iraq for months! the sunni and shia Arab could not reach an agreement, so we (kurds) decided to be the middle man and that's when the government was formed, I mean talks were held in Baghdad, Ankara and Tehran but they all failed, but talks in Erbil were successful.

State of Law Coalition MP Ali Al Shallah affirmed in a statement to Alsumarianews that 90% of Arbil’s agreements have been achieved.
Talks between the State of Law Coalition and Al Iraqiya List are turning out positive, Al Shallah said.


http://www.alsumaria.tv/en/Iraq-News/1- ... eved..html

It was the Erbil agreement that sorted the problem out, and hence makes us the middle man, I mean we could have easily formed a government with the Shia and sidelined the sunni, but that is not to our advantage, we need to be neutral and make sure there is enough opposition to Maliki in Baghdad so that he does not turn into another dictator!

Top Iraqi politicians often turn to Barzani for help:-

Code: Select all
Member of al- Iraqiya Alliance, Hassan Shihan , told PUKmedia Correspondent that the Head of al- Iraqiya Iyad Allawi made a telephone call with President Barzani and asked him to interferer to resolve the issue of the National Council of the Strategic Polices through coming to Baghdad or inviting the Iraqi leaderships to Erbil.

Reported by: Waleed al- Zaidi


http://pukmedia.com/english/index.ph...ion&Itemid=385



If you are referring to the Tigris, well, I'm afraid Turkey, with all its dams, has assumed total control over that river, as is the case with the Euphrates. Turkey will enforce its power on these rivers, so to Iraq it won't matter if Kurdistan becomes independent, because the Tigris has been spoiled already.


Non the less, some water will pass over to Kurdistan becuase if the Turks want to stop all of it, they'll have to sacrifice alot of land! besides, the 30+ dams Kurdistan is building is not all at directed to the rivers as we can get water from rain, and underground water.

According to some politician's agenda, yes. But these foresights are all entirely theoretical, and the way the Arab-Kurdish relations are going right now, I cannot see the KRG and central Iraq engaging in such cooperation.


It's already a reality I mean Kurdistan has already signed contracts with majors, worth billions of dollars in both the oil and gas sector, in fact one of the major nabucco companies has signed with Kurdistan too, the same goes for the massive Chinese 'sinopec' company, the fact is that Kurdistan has a lot of gas and oil which is something Europe wants, and there is nothing Baghdad can do to stop us from selling it, one way or another we will sell it and KRG made it very visible that they have other means of export if the west decided to be funny.
The governmental make-up of Iraq is entirely formed by nepotism, and unless we engage in that aswell, we have no influence on Sunni-Shia matters. If we leave, the Sunnis will probably just look for another middle-man; maybe the Assyrians or Turkmens.


Answered above.

All these privileges and protections come at a price. Nations who don't have their own independent state have no international significance whatsoever. Being an Arab League member(which directly concerns us), Iraq is designated as an Arab country, and it will continue to be regarded and treated like an Arab country by the outside world, and we are subjected to that. I stand by the fact that we are a major Middle-Eastern nation, and we need representation. Therefore it is our right to be independent.


I suppose, however Kurdish is used in Baghdad and is taught in a lot of Arab primary schools.

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:02 am

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: Djembe » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:38 pm

thearabchildren

It is true that in Turkey most fierce opposition for Israel is coming from 'Islamic groups' and 'universal socialist'. And the support is coming from 'Kemalist and Ulusal Sol' which I can describe as 'Secular Nationalist/Fascist/Elite'.
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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:11 pm

this is about peshmerga not turkey stop your trolling
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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: Djembe » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:59 pm

alan131210 wrote:this is about peshmerga not turkey stop your trolling


I don't expect you to understand much due to lack of your intellectual ability. You have no clue about what is being debated here. Just read previous comments, and you will be embarrassed by posting your rubbish i quoted. Did you read the previous posts? Do not post here without reading and understanding of the posts. My post is relevant which is related to what is said by 'ideas', 'azamat' and 'thearabchildren'. Read the post before you comments so, this way you make some sense. THIS TOPIC IS RELEVANT TO TURKEY.
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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:44 pm

KEEP THE WORDS TURK AND TURKISH OUT OF THIS SACRED POST.
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PostAuthor: alan131210 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:19 pm

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KERKUK is the Heart of Kurdistan
Kurdish state is on the horizon with WK now freed great kurdistan is closing in.
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Re:

PostAuthor: Rando » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:06 pm

thank you for these great pictures,kak alan u kak idea :)
When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:16 am

Rando wrote:thank you for these great pictures,kak alan u kak idea :)

you welcomed.


Peshmerga in Jalawla 2011

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: ideas » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:35 am

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Video uploaded by a peshmerga, he recorded his base...looks quite cool... looks like a field artillery brigade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9exVesNbFY

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Re: Peshmerga

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:50 pm

these are the forces deployed recently in Jalwla , and about this photo! ideas do you remember shaytan on ssc arguing these were lent to KRG by Baghdad for training and were sent back ???? what a lying coward.

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