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Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government place

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:27 am

Londoner wrote:
Anthea wrote:
talsor wrote:There were actually only 1300 terrorist and they took over a city of more than 2 millions with the entire army running away to Kurdistan

I am truly shocked that so few terrorist could destroy so much and chase away the entire Iraqi army and probably half the population a such a large city

At least we now know that the Peshmerga has nothing to fear from Iraqi so Baghdad might as well stop with their threats of the oil


It is really surprising. The whole army and police left their position disguised as civilians. They have left everything behind. But what is the secret behind it?

The high ranking officers claim they got orders from Baghdad, Noory Malikey Al-Tikrity, to withdraw quickly and given the free choice to take the weapons and equipments or not. Did this really happened?

1-if it really happened it is the trick of the Noory Malikey Al-Tickrity to get emergency power and gradually to become a dictator.

2- if it is not, A-the order could have come from Al-Qaeda in a clever way as it is from Baghdad. B-The order was from former Saddam Hussein high ranking officers brought back to the Army by Noory Malikey Al-Tickrity, disguised as an order from Baghdad.

3- The order could have been really from Baghdad, Shiite high commanders. This is simply to put an end to Iraq to save Iraqi Shiitte. Every day sunie Arabs kill hundreds of Shiites with car bombs and suicide bombers and they can not stop it. So the solution is to separate Shiites from Sunnies. This is only possible when sunnies takeover their own areas, which becomes an excuse for Shiites to take over their own areas and cleanse it from Sunnies.

Whatever it is, it is a bless for Kurdistan.


Kak Londoner your right on with your analysis again.

This is a big conspiracy:

- they have to separate the Shia (Alwities +Some Shia in Syria) from Sunni polulations in Iraq and Syria. Brotherhood + Turkey lost the Sunni battle leadership (look Egypt) to the salafists. The arab spring is almost over, mostvod thebpeope lost. They all agreed to let isis rule the Sunni areas. That's why Turkey meeting with Iran last week. The like will be drawn at Sadr City.

- now that all have come to an agreement its time to escalate the war against Kurds.
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Saipul » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:45 am

KabirKuhi wrote:
Saipul wrote:There is a video here of the Iraqi army fleeing from Kirkuk: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iraqi ... il-n128501

One of the craziest things I've seen, whole divisions afraid of at most a few thousand fighters.

But let's be honest. Unstable situations like this have great risk but also some possible reward. The state of Iraq is weakened and preoccupied, which should allow the KRG to continue and increase oil exports. Peshmerga can move south to secure and fortify Kurdish areas, namely Khanaqin and Kurdish areas around Kirkuk (which they are already doing). Just defend Kurdistan, that's all that matters.

Let the dogs fight.


I don't agree with this, this is a selfish ethnocentric attitude. I'm Kurdish, and I'm loyal to kurds and kurdistan foremost, but I cannot stand innocent people being killed by savage retrograde terrorists(Regardless of their ethnicity). These people who are like monstrous devils, this cancer, they need to be eradicated, regardless of our conflicts with baghdad and nouri al maliki. To indiferently watch while they mercilessly massacre people over disputes, is immoral and ethically warped. Besides even if you're not convinced by moral values and principles, do you think kurdistan can take a endless stream of refugees?(They take more refugees from 1 day, than entire syrian war) What do you think will happen to Kurdistan if Iraq collapses and a civil war happens? Why are people acting like it won't affect Kurdistan? If I wasn't in poor health... I'd have volunteered there to fight ISIS. How many feyli kurds and how many kurds in west haven't they killed? How many shiahs, yezidis, christians, blood do they have on their hands? They'll try to come to kurdistan aswell. They'll leave no area in middle-east unscathed. We cannot pretend they'll not come to kurdish areas. They even have kurdish recruits(traitors) in KRG. It must stop here, we cannot close our doors and build walls, and pretend it's not our problem. The problem will come to kurdistan too, whether we want it or not.

I agree entirely. The problem is, how are you going to defeat the ISIS when they have the support of Sunni Arabs?

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:53 am

KabirKuhi wrote:
Saipul wrote:There is a video here of the Iraqi army fleeing from Kirkuk: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iraqi ... il-n128501

One of the craziest things I've seen, whole divisions afraid of at most a few thousand fighters.

But let's be honest. Unstable situations like this have great risk but also some possible reward. The state of Iraq is weakened and preoccupied, which should allow the KRG to continue and increase oil exports. Peshmerga can move south to secure and fortify Kurdish areas, namely Khanaqin and Kurdish areas around Kirkuk (which they are already doing). Just defend Kurdistan, that's all that matters.

Let the dogs fight.


I don't agree with this, this is a selfish ethnocentric attitude. I'm Kurdish, and I'm loyal to kurds and kurdistan foremost, but I cannot stand innocent people being killed by savage retrograde terrorists(Regardless of their ethnicity). These people who are like monstrous devils, this cancer, they need to be eradicated, regardless of our conflicts with baghdad and nouri al maliki. To indiferently watch while they mercilessly massacre people over disputes, is immoral and ethically warped. Besides even if you're not convinced by moral values and principles, do you think kurdistan can take a endless stream of refugees?(They take more refugees from 1 day, than entire syrian war) What do you think will happen to Kurdistan if Iraq collapses and a civil war happens? Why are people acting like it won't affect Kurdistan? If I wasn't in poor health... I'd have volunteered there to fight ISIS. How many feyli kurds and how many kurds in west haven't they killed? How many shiahs, yezidis, christians, blood do they have on their hands? They'll try to come to kurdistan aswell. They'll leave no area in middle-east unscathed. We cannot pretend they'll not come to kurdish areas. They even have kurdish recruits(traitors) in KRG. It must stop here, we cannot close our doors and build walls, and pretend it's not our problem. The problem will come to kurdistan too, whether we want it or not.


I see your position on this, IsIs are not just mujaheddin or jehadis, they are violent criminals and many brain washed people. But why should Kurds do everyone's dirty work? If ISIS is a big threat then let them deal with it. I say it's te to tighten security broaden terrory am advance to all the disputed areas and make an advance toward Kassab on the coast.

Really it if you look carefully, you will see that some non Sunni elements are actually fueling and aiding ISIS. Like the Strian regime, ISIS saved then in a way. By stealing the jihadi momentum and directing it against Kurds and other Sunni jihadis in Syria.

I read a good article written by Apo about the need for an Islamic revolution fron the Salafists and the Ayottolas. Muslim Kurds should sart by rejection both.

If they want a Salifist Aran state and a Shia Arab state next to it, then let them have it.
Last edited by Shirko on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:57 am

Saipul wrote:
KabirKuhi wrote:
Saipul wrote:There is a video here of the Iraqi army fleeing from Kirkuk: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iraqi ... il-n128501

One of the craziest things I've seen, whole divisions afraid of at most a few thousand fighters.

But let's be honest. Unstable situations like this have great risk but also some possible reward. The state of Iraq is weakened and preoccupied, which should allow the KRG to continue and increase oil exports. Peshmerga can move south to secure and fortify Kurdish areas, namely Khanaqin and Kurdish areas around Kirkuk (which they are already doing). Just defend Kurdistan, that's all that matters.

Let the dogs fight.


I don't agree with this, this is a selfish ethnocentric attitude. I'm Kurdish, and I'm loyal to kurds and kurdistan foremost, but I cannot stand innocent people being killed by savage retrograde terrorists(Regardless of their ethnicity). These people who are like monstrous devils, this cancer, they need to be eradicated, regardless of our conflicts with baghdad and nouri al maliki. To indiferently watch while they mercilessly massacre people over disputes, is immoral and ethically warped. Besides even if you're not convinced by moral values and principles, do you think kurdistan can take a endless stream of refugees?(They take more refugees from 1 day, than entire syrian war) What do you think will happen to Kurdistan if Iraq collapses and a civil war happens? Why are people acting like it won't affect Kurdistan? If I wasn't in poor health... I'd have volunteered there to fight ISIS. How many feyli kurds and how many kurds in west haven't they killed? How many shiahs, yezidis, christians, blood do they have on their hands? They'll try to come to kurdistan aswell. They'll leave no area in middle-east unscathed. We cannot pretend they'll not come to kurdish areas. They even have kurdish recruits(traitors) in KRG. It must stop here, we cannot close our doors and build walls, and pretend it's not our problem. The problem will come to kurdistan too, whether we want it or not.

I agree entirely. The problem is, how are you going to defeat the ISIS when they have the support of Sunni Arabs?


They dont have the support of the Sunni Arabs in Syria. This is why we have been seeing much more coordination with YPG and Ekrad forces with FSA associated groups. However they (FSA) don't have much of a chance of defeating both Assad and ISIS, unless we support to close them against ISIS.

ISIS leaders are iraqi Baathist, so they have much better support in Iraq than in Syria.
Last edited by Shirko on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: KabirKuhi » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:06 am

Saipul wrote:
KabirKuhi wrote:
Saipul wrote:There is a video here of the Iraqi army fleeing from Kirkuk: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iraqi ... il-n128501

One of the craziest things I've seen, whole divisions afraid of at most a few thousand fighters.

But let's be honest. Unstable situations like this have great risk but also some possible reward. The state of Iraq is weakened and preoccupied, which should allow the KRG to continue and increase oil exports. Peshmerga can move south to secure and fortify Kurdish areas, namely Khanaqin and Kurdish areas around Kirkuk (which they are already doing). Just defend Kurdistan, that's all that matters.

Let the dogs fight.


I don't agree with this, this is a selfish ethnocentric attitude. I'm Kurdish, and I'm loyal to kurds and kurdistan foremost, but I cannot stand innocent people being killed by savage retrograde terrorists(Regardless of their ethnicity). These people who are like monstrous devils, this cancer, they need to be eradicated, regardless of our conflicts with baghdad and nouri al maliki. To indiferently watch while they mercilessly massacre people over disputes, is immoral and ethically warped. Besides even if you're not convinced by moral values and principles, do you think kurdistan can take a endless stream of refugees?(They take more refugees from 1 day, than entire syrian war) What do you think will happen to Kurdistan if Iraq collapses and a civil war happens? Why are people acting like it won't affect Kurdistan? If I wasn't in poor health... I'd have volunteered there to fight ISIS. How many feyli kurds and how many kurds in west haven't they killed? How many shiahs, yezidis, christians, blood do they have on their hands? They'll try to come to kurdistan aswell. They'll leave no area in middle-east unscathed. We cannot pretend they'll not come to kurdish areas. They even have kurdish recuits(traitors) in KRG. It must stop here, we cannot close our doors and build walls, and pretend it's not our problem. The problem will come to kurdistan too, whether we want it or not.

I agree entirely. The problem is, how are you going to defeat the ISIS when they have the support of Sunni Arabs?


They are a few thousand at most, we are hundreds of thousands. We need to push them back out of the surrounding areas first(Kirkuk, Ramadi), survey the area quickly, and conduct night raids quickly, before they have get more recuits(like we did in 2005) and fortify their positions(their forces must have stretched thin, even with the freed prisoners and the volunteers they have, they cannot be that many, they won't have had enough time to ). When they retreat to Mosul. You close the city's highways, the river, and surround the areas, fortify and mine it, blockade the entire area, and maintain surveillance. Then you identify the areas where ISIS on ground troops are located and move. You bombard them(heavy artillery and airstrikes) and conduct frequent night-raids on their positions and neighborhoods. Any sympathizers should be picked up and taken away, and interrogated for information of any stragglers. If we already have secured control over kirkuk and khanaqin and most kurdish regions we didn't have before this time(Nouri al maliki can't do anything about that, and he'll be ingratiated to kurds when we remove ISIS, and if we choose to seperate after this. What will he say? He can't say anything). It's really about time we strike back. These ISIS people are experts on urban guerrilla warfare(They'll use IEDs, fortified postions, relay troop movements, move in civilian clothes, communicate via radios, neighbourhood ambushes, move from house to house, use snipers, car bombs, civilian clothed terrorists) but they haven't faced a real effective counter-insurgency, since the americans left.


Shirko wrote:I see your position on this, isis ste nitvjust mujaheddin or jehadis, they are mistly criminals and many brain washed people. But why should Kurds do everyone's dirty work? If ISIS is a big threat then let them deal with it. I say it's te to tighten security broaden terrory am advance to all the disputed areas and make an advance toward Kassab on the coast.

Really it if you look carefully, you will see that some non Sunni elements are actually fueling and aiding ISIS. Like the Strian regime, ISIS saved then in a way. By stealing the jihadi momentum and directing it against Kurds and other Sunni jihadis in Syria.


Because not only is it the moral thing to do. ISIS won't stop with having a sunni state in iraq. Their ideology is expansionist, like al-aqaeda, they're going to make trouble and problems for kurds too. Because kurds do not accept their ideology and are allies of kuffar(israel, US, europe). While ISIS might not attempt a land invasion, like they did in iraq. They can however, support infilitration in kurdistan, and help foster salafist terrorist movements in kurdistan, like ansar al islam that was lead by mullah krekar. Besides they'll disrupt kurdish interest and will make life harder for kurds in the west. Not mentioning how many refugees, who we can't afford to house in kurdistan, that will come from their war with shiahs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullah_Krekar

I have no love for maliki or his government. And we have already gotten our strategic goal(Kirkuk is in kurdish hands, khanaqin soon afterwards, as other kurdish regions). What do we have to win by waiting for ISIS to get stronger and consolidate their position? What do we have to gain by making maliki weaker than he already is? He will never get back kirkuk, and khanaqin. He's in no position to do anything, we could declare independence tommorow, and he'd only be able to fart in his presidential chair. I believe that, if we wait a long time, ISIS will become stronger and a threat not just to the baghdad, but also to KRG. It's not about dirty work, it's about pre-emptive strike against scumbags that will be future trouble. Besides if we destroy ISIS in iraq, YPG can expand their territory in Syria.

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: talsor » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:55 am

I Like your ideals heval KabirKuhi , but lets say we did all you have mentioned although impossible and somehow ISIS is defeated . What do we gain from all that ? Is the Iraqi government going to change their attitude towards kurds by making concessions ? You know as well as I do the answer for that and we will be back to square one again .

Frankly I prefer the kurds to stay completely out of this and let Iraq deal with it . Kurdish area and borders including the disputed regions are secure now and that is what matter to most kurds . Humanitarian help is/will continue to be provided to the refugees and we should do out best .
neither the iraqi government nor the ISIS is worth a drop of Kurdish blood and dealing with Isis is much easier than the iraqi government would not you agree ?

We should stay out of this .
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:01 am

@KabirKuhi
My point is to make it harder for Isis to attack Kurdistan and let them keep attacking Malikis gov, Assad's gov, then let them also start attacking Iran and Turkey, because they will find that Kurdistan is the hardest target in the region, not the weakest.

So while they attack each other, we can focus on other things. If we defeat ISIS , then they will all gang up against us. ISIS is a monster they created.

But if you are saying that there is a good chance to completely wipe them off the map, and guarentee that it will not be a quagmire. While at the same time keeping all the current gains in SK, and still much more in WK, then yes of course. (NK and EK weren't mentioned in this scenario on purpose).
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: KabirKuhi » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:06 am

talsor wrote:I Like your ideals heval KabirKuhi , but lets say we did all you have mentioned although impossible and somehow ISIS is defeated . What do we gain from all that ? Is the Iraqi government going to change their attitude towards kurds by making concessions ? You know as well as I do the answer for that and we will be back to square one again .

Frankly I prefer the kurds to stay completely out of this and let Iraq deal with it . Kurdish area and borders including the disputed regions are secure now and that is what matter to most kurds . Humanitarian help is/will continue to be provided to the refugees and we should do out best .
neither the iraqi government nor the ISIS is worth a drop of Kurdish blood . We should stay out of this .


An unpredictable salafist controlled state to worry about, who we have to look over our shoulders. Again it's not done just because of Iraqi government. I don't know about you, but I don't want dozens of mullah mamista and mullah krekar coming to KRG. With funds from mosul oil, they can go into kurdistan.

Besides here are ISIS controlled territories in syria http://www.noria-research.com/wp-conten ... ution.jpeg

We can probably take large chunks of that... by weakening them in Iraq. There is even oil in syria, in the east.
Last edited by KabirKuhi on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:12 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: talsor » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:10 am

Shirko wrote:
So while they attack each other, we can focus on other things. If we defeat ISIS , then they will all gang up against us. ISIS is a monster they created.


Frankly they are all monsters
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:17 am

Rumored al Douri (last of the Baath regime top leadership) was behind the Mosul advance, this would mean that ISIS is much more than just some fanatical terrorist group. They have used the jihadi movement in a way that was initially Saddams plan.
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: talsor » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:22 am

KabirKuhi wrote:
An unpredictable salafist controlled state to worry about, who we have to look over our shoulders. Again it's not done just because of Iraqi government. I don't know about you, but I don't want dozens of mullah mamista and mullah krekar coming to KRG. With funds from mosul oil, they can go into kurdistan.

Besides here are ISIS controlled territories in syria http://www.noria-research.com/wp-conten ... ution.jpeg

We can probably take large chunks of that... by weakening them in Iraq. There is even oil in syria, in the east.


I do not know about you , but i would much rather defend Kurdistan against ISIS than the legitimate Iraqi army or Maliki games , foot dragging and sanctions . ISIS is a terrorist organization and that pretty much gives us a green light to do whatever we want . I know it is tempting to crush these cockroaches , but i believe it is in our best interest to totally stay out of this .Not our business and no one is stepping on our foot .
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: talsor » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:25 am

Shirko wrote:Rumored al Douri (last of the Baath regime top leadership) was behind the Mosul advance, this would mean that ISIS is much more than just some fanatical terrorist group. They have used the jihadi movement in a way that was initially Saddams plan.


I could not agree more and I think I have mentioned this before that every hard core baathist is Emir now in the ISIS . This is a sunni movement and isis would not exist in iraq without the support of sunnas .
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:42 am

talsor wrote:
Shirko wrote:
So while they attack each other, we can focus on other things. If we defeat ISIS , then they will all gang up against us. ISIS is a monster they created.


Frankly they are all monsters


Slaw heval, yes this particular group is for sure. What it is a combination of the original remote Najd desert ignorant beduin mentality ( who barely even knew about Islam) Wahabi ikhwan combined with sadistic violence types and also some of the modern disenfranchised jihadi youth movemegts.

What's interesting is that after the founding if Saudi Arabia the Wahhabi ikhwan wanted to keep marching both into Transjordan then al Sham to Kurdistan, but Ibn Saud saved the day and was able to hault their advance North, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia
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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: KabirKuhi » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:56 am

talsor wrote:
KabirKuhi wrote:
An unpredictable salafist controlled state to worry about, who we have to look over our shoulders. Again it's not done just because of Iraqi government. I don't know about you, but I don't want dozens of mullah mamista and mullah krekar coming to KRG. With funds from mosul oil, they can go into kurdistan.

Besides here are ISIS controlled territories in syria http://www.noria-research.com/wp-conten ... ution.jpeg

We can probably take large chunks of that... by weakening them in Iraq. There is even oil in syria, in the east.


I do not know about you , but i would much rather defend Kurdistan against ISIS than the legitimate Iraqi army or Maliki games , foot dragging and sanctions . ISIS is a terrorist organization and that pretty much gives us a green light to do whatever we want . I know it is tempting to crush these cockroaches , but i believe it is in our best interest to totally stay out of this .Not our business and no one is stepping on our foot .

Iraq army has humiliated themselves and made to look like idiots and cowards. And they're all disloyal. They'll never regain their prestige or intimidate anyone ever again. Least of all KRG. Yes, you can let them eat each other up, but we will regret it later(If ISIS becomes strong). Cost of human life will be alot.

I think you underestimate ISIS and their strategic capacity.
Last edited by KabirKuhi on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Insurgents in Iraq overrun Mosul provincial government p

PostAuthor: Saipul » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:59 am

I doubt that Iran will allow them to move beyond Baathist areas.

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