Miss Saudi arabia 2012

[Kulka]

We could also talk about the east where men are dominant and certainly there is lots of injustice towards women , but over all it is more stable .

http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/3/318582/ :

"In Erbil (HEWLER - it is called Hewler!) some 79 females committed suicide by burning. "
"Duhok witnessed 38 suicide cases by burning"
"Suli had 102 female suicide cases by burning"
"Garmian witnessed 22 suicide cases by burning"

BUT THANKS TO GOD THE SITUATION IS STABLE

[Kawe]

Since feminism is being discussed here, I might as well clarify my views (in case some of you are confused)

I want equality between men and women when it comes to rights of citizens(which we have), but I do feel that the typical Kurdish family structure (Man at work while the Woman takes care of the children) is good. Men and Women should have equal rights, but I am fully supportive of our family structure.

[talsor]

We could also talk about the east where men are dominant and certainly there is lots of injustice towards women , but over all it is more stable .

http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/3/318582/ :

"In Erbil (HEWLER - it is called Hewler!) some 79 females committed suicide by burning. "
"Duhok witnessed 38 suicide cases by burning"
"Suli had 102 female suicide cases by burning"
"Garmian witnessed 22 suicide cases by burning"

BUT THANKS TO GOD THE SITUATION IS STABLE

Do you really thing that these numbers are high ?The statistics are much worst in the west with women and men killing their own children or each other or going into battle with each other till the end of time .

Look , no matter how bad it is in our society it is still better than the west . I mean women jumb from one men to another man and by the time they are in mid 20s they have slept with more men than the turkish prostitute in Taqseem.

[Kulka]

Unfortunately heval Talsor your last statement applies to kurdish men as well. Seems like you dont look at my post as a whole - i mean you didnt noticed what i wrote about men. Besides i also wrote that the way a lot of girls in west behave made me sick - why you missed half of my points?
For me these numbers are very high and its not the matter of comparing - although i would like to see the statistic of any western country with the population of about 5 million.

Stability that you are talking about is the result of oppression and one gender domination - in that case such "stability" is nothing but illusion. Its the same stability which used to be in any regime country - like syria to give the example. Syria was stable before, now its not - but i would like to know what you like more - the stable situation before or this chaos now?

Anyway - sooner or later any oppressed people stand up and rise their voice for their rights - discrimination and unfair power over others never lasts for eternity.
I know a lot of young Kurds - boys - who present a healthy attitudes toward this issue - they are not going to be the masters and owners of their sisters and wives - so there is a hope for kurdish nation.

[Kulka]

Since feminism is being discussed here, I might as well clarify my views (in case some of you are confused)

I want equality between men and women when it comes to rights of citizens(which we have), but I do feel that the typical Kurdish family structure (Man at work while the Woman takes care of the children) is good. Men and Women should have equal rights, but I am fully supportive of our family structure.

Heval Kawe (you are from Rojhalat if i am not mistaken - OMG, Rojhalat is very close to my heart for the last couple of weeks ) - i dont think we are discussing feminism here - rather the issue of equality, which i see there is a lack of in Kurdistan.
Family structure is one thing and its nothing wrong with that. I am very far from forcing the men to stay at home with kids and forcing women to work hard to make money for family life.
Also the citizens rights - as for voting and stuff like that are ok in Kurdistan. But you know there is no equality in everyday life - for sure you know a lot of women has no right to decide about themselves - in very basic things, like education or marriage.

Just the example from life:

http://shareff.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/v ... ality.html

[Kulka]

By the way - as oddity - when i saw this girl in Hewler city center - i was staring at her and laughing together with all the kurdish guys who was on the street and saw her that time. It was a Peshmerga by one of the bulidings, i asked him "Ama chiya?" And he laughing and said: "Kurdish, Kurdish".
What i can say - its good that she dont have to ask her brother permission to wear that clothes, but i dont think she looks nice - personally i dont like that style.
Giving the women their rights to decide about themselves doesnt mean that straight away all of them will behave like prostitutes. I am free to do whatever i want - but i dont dress like a whore and dont do sex with everybody - to be honest with nobody although for some members here i am a bitch .
The problem is that when it comes to the freedom of women straight away men have only sex issue in their heads - no, guys - its not about THAT. Believe me there are a lot of other things that constitute the life of a human and when we talk about freedom and human rights, we dont talk about sex. Its not our - women - fault that you guys see everythin g through the sex perspective.

But anyway i love you all (but Kurdish only), even if i dont agree with you or even if you making me angry

[talsor]

Stability that you are talking about is the result of oppression and one gender domination - in that case such "stability" is nothing but illusion. Its the same stability which used to be in any regime country - like syria to give the example. Syria was stable before, now its not - but i would like to know what you like more - the stable situation before or this chaos now?

Anyway - sooner or later any oppressed people stand up and rise their voice for their rights - discrimination and unfair power over others never lasts for eternity.
I know a lot of young Kurds - boys - who present a healthy attitudes toward this issue - they are not going to be the masters and owners of their sisters and wives - so there is a hope for kurdish nation.

lol , Kulka Xan I have sisters and nieces and they are all married happily with little or no problems , so I do not know what you are talking about here . Granted there are oppressed women every where in the world but I think Kurdish women have more rights than any other society in the middle east . There is nothing wrong with the men being the head of the family and the decision maker and if you consider that a from of oppression then our discussion is over .
The revolution you are hoping for happened in the west and look where they are in term of abuse , divorce , injustice , children with no father or no mothers , children being lost , abandoned , Alcohol , drugs and the rest of social problems that came with "everyone does what they feel and want "
I used to go out in the past and frankly I feel sorry for the western women and the so called freedom they supposedly gained . there is no respect or love towards them by majority of men who only uses them and throw them away when they are done with them . If you call this freedom then I certainly do not wanted for my society and I'm certain majority of women will reject it too .

[Kulka]

You still dont understand my point heval.
The fact that you know dozens of happy marriages doesnt mean all or even majority are like that.
Of course you are right about the west - but as i wrote in my previous post - why you see freedom and rights only through sexual perspective - its sick!
By the way - you still talking only about women - how dirty they behave. Any comments about the men, who doing exactly the same things as these women? Should we have respect for them? Should i respect kurdish guy who works with me when he proudly said that he already have sex with 8 women?

I know in Kurdistan - for example comparing to Afghanistan - women are much happy - nobody cut off their ears or noses - but i would like to discuss that issue without comparing - just the problem itself, in a pure form - coz any comparison will always bring "for"s and "against"s. Like in a saying: "in the land of blind people, one-eye guy is a king"

[talsor]

You still dont understand my point heval.
The fact that you know dozens of happy marriages doesnt mean all or even majority are like that.
Of course you are right about the west - but as i wrote in my previous post - why you see freedom and rights only through sexual perspective - its sick!

If this is not the case then what are you referring to ? women are free to work , to go to school to vote , to drive ,to own businesses , to join army , police , parliament , become lawyers doctors.....I really do not understand what else is out there except for Sextual freedom . I mean what is it that you want as a Kurdish woman ? what is it that you do not have and try to be specific and do not generalize .

By the way - you still talking only about women - how dirty they behave. Any comments about the men, who doing exactly the same things as these women? Should we have respect for them? Should i respect kurdish guy who works with me when he proudly said that he already have sex with 8 women?

It is certainly not healthy mentally and physically for men to sleep with multiple women , but you are forgetting that it is the direct result of the so called liberty you are preaching .

I know in Kurdistan - for example comparing to Afghanistan - women are much happy - nobody cut off their ears or noses - but i would like to discuss that issue without comparing - just the problem itself, in a pure form - coz any comparison will always bring "for"s and "against"s. Like in a saying: "in the land of blind people, one-eye guy is a king"

[/quote]

wow , thank for putting us one step above Afghanistan .

[Kulka]

Why you are malicious, heval? did i say - i put Kurdistan "one step" above Afghanistan? This is how you discuss? I wrote "comparing" .

Yes, all things you mentioned that women are free to do - they are - theoretically. And if you want to know what i want - my answer is - i want it to be implemented in practice. They are free to educate, choose job, join army - but only if they get permission from their fathers, brothers and husbands.

I didnt know that we discussing sexual freedom here - but if you are not able to go out of that field - then the discussion is over.
Or maybe you think these all women ( http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/3/318582/) burnt themselves coz they couldnt do sex freely with everybody?

"It is certainly not healthy mentally and physically for men to sleep with multiple women , but you are forgetting that it is the direct result of the so called liberty you are preaching ." - it is direct result of individual rubbish personality, but feel free to blame liberty for that - very comfortable. And keep living in a dream in which you are sure that women in eastern culture are perfectly saints and dont do dirty things.

And you completely misunderstand what i am "preaching". Its not the first time i noticed there is no chance to discuss with you, if someone dare to have different point of view - you become ironic which is pissing off the interlocutor.

Anyway - it was very big mistake to go back to this forum.

[Kulka]

"Hozan did not have the chance to choose her future husband or to choose her life. She never had the chance to go to school; nor the chance to enjoy her childhood. Soon she found herself living a life prepared for her by her father and brothers." - http://shareff.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/v ... ality.html

Go and tell this girl and thousands like her that she is "free to work , to go to school to vote , to drive ,to own businesses , to join army , police , parliament , become lawyers doctors....." - go stand in front of her and tell her looking in her eyes that she is free to do all these thing.

Thats all.

[talsor]

Why you are malicious, heval? did i say - i put Kurdistan "one step" above Afghanistan? This is how you discuss? I wrote "comparing" ..

Kulk Xan do not get mad . You are the one who brought Afghanistan to the picture and you mentioned being with one eye makes the person a king when everyone else is blind .

Yes, all things you mentioned that women are free to do - they are - theoretically. And if you want to know what i want - my answer is - i want it to be implemented in practice. They are free to educate, choose job, join army - but only if they get permission from their fathers, brothers and husbands.

So this is the biggest problem that women are facing in Kurdistan ? getting a permission from father or husband is degrading to her ? if this is the major problem then I think we are doing great then .

Or maybe you think these all women ( http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/3/318582/) burnt themselves coz they couldnt do sex freely with everybody?

I do not think anything kulka xan , people who commit suicide are mentally sick and need help and I do not think they do it because it is too degrading for them to ask permission from their husband or father to do something . possible abuse , mental illness , sex outside marriage plays a big rule in suicide attempts .

"It is certainly not healthy mentally and physically for men to sleep with multiple women , but you are forgetting that it is the direct result of the so called liberty you are preaching ." - it is direct result of individual rubbish personality, but feel free to blame liberty for that - very comfortable. And keep living in a dream in which you are sure that women in eastern culture are perfectly saints and dont do dirty things.

Certainly not and that is not the topic of our discussion here .

And you completely misunderstand what i am "preaching". Its not the first time i noticed there is no chance to discuss with you, if someone dare to have different point of view - you become ironic which is pissing off the interlocutor.

Anyway - it was very big mistake to go back to this forum.

[/quote]

I'm sorry if you get offended and I'm trying to understand why would a kurdish woman say something like this ? .

Stability that you are talking about is the result of oppression and one gender domination - in that case such "stability" is nothing but illusion. Its the same stability which used to be in any regime country - like syria to give the example. Syria was stable before, now its not - but i would like to know what you like more - the stable situation before or this chaos now?

Anyway - sooner or later any oppressed people stand up and rise their voice for their rights - discrimination and unfair power over others never lasts for eternity.
I know a lot of young Kurds - boys - who present a healthy attitudes toward this issue - they are not going to be the masters and owners of their sisters and wives - so there is a hope for kurdish nation.