Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[Vladimir]

People from different ethnic groups or places call themselves 'Shar Ma', 'Sar Ma', 'Dimil' or 'Kirmandz'. SOV; pre- and postpositions; genitives, articles, adjectives relatives after noun heads; numerals before noun heads; question word replaces content word in content questions; 2 prefixes, 2 suffixes, word order distinguishes subject, object, indirect object; noun affixes indicate case; verb affixes indicate person, number, gender; ergativity; passives; causatives; comparatives; V, VC, VCC, CV, CVC, CVCC; nontonal. Mountain mesa, mountain slope, valleys. Deciduous forest. 1,000 to 3,000 meters. Pastoralists, peasant agriculturalists. Muslim (Alevi).

ethnologue.com - Kirmanjki

Yes, this dialect of Zazaki is not only spoken by Zazas, but also spoken by Armenian and Kurds in that region. That's why it says people from different ethnic groups.

By the way, the term "Kirmanjki" is a wrong term to classify the whole northern dialect of the Zazaki language. It is only used in the inner Dersim. Infact, most people who spoke this dialect of Zazaki do not use the Kirmanjki word.

What term is correct then? I doubt there is a real "correct term".

Like I wrote before:

"Zaza speakers from Dersim in general call themselves Kirmanc. They call their Zaza speaking brothers around the Murat river Zaza (And their language Zaza). Dimili is used for the region Siverek en sometimes also in Dersim. Next to this is the name "Gini". This is spoken in the area around Kayseri, Sivas and Malatya. And Dimili doesn't come from "Daylam", it comes from a big tribe named in the Sharafname. "

[Parsi]

mrs serd dont compare kurmanci with persian thats only words borrowed from them iranians....part of assimilation politics by iranians..

you like iranians take your people and move there..

i dont think this dude serd is even a zazza whatever he is.... he compares to much pro persian and iranian

probably a iranie

Why don't you move to Turkmenistan? Since you like Turks so much. Just using your own ideology...

He's whatever he sees himself as. And no he isn't Iranian b/c he's made anti-Iranian statements in the past.

[Serd]

People from different ethnic groups or places call themselves 'Shar Ma', 'Sar Ma', 'Dimil' or 'Kirmandz'. SOV; pre- and postpositions; genitives, articles, adjectives relatives after noun heads; numerals before noun heads; question word replaces content word in content questions; 2 prefixes, 2 suffixes, word order distinguishes subject, object, indirect object; noun affixes indicate case; verb affixes indicate person, number, gender; ergativity; passives; causatives; comparatives; V, VC, VCC, CV, CVC, CVCC; nontonal. Mountain mesa, mountain slope, valleys. Deciduous forest. 1,000 to 3,000 meters. Pastoralists, peasant agriculturalists. Muslim (Alevi).

ethnologue.com - Kirmanjki

Yes, this dialect of Zazaki is not only spoken by Zazas, but also spoken by Armenian and Kurds in that region. That's why it says people from different ethnic groups.

By the way, the term "Kirmanjki" is a wrong term to classify the whole northern dialect of the Zazaki language. It is only used in the inner Dersim. Infact, most people who spoke this dialect of Zazaki do not use the Kirmanjki word.

What term is correct then? I doubt there is a real "correct term".

That’s a good question. Actually, German linguist Ludwig Paul divides the Zazaki language into three main dialects. He names these dialects as Northern, Central, and Southern dialects (Zazaki: Grammatik Und Versuch Einer Dialektologie, 1998). My Zazaish friend who studies Iranic languages at Frankfurt University as a Ph.D. also agrees with this classification and naming.

So we can make such a classification:

1. Northern Zazaki (Blue in the map)
(Alternate names: Zaza, Zazaki, Dimilki, Dersimki, So-Bê, Zonê Ma, Kirmanjki, Gini)

2. Central Zazaki (Red in the map)
(Alternate names: Zaza, Zazaki)

3. Southern Zazaki (Dark blue in the map)
(Alternate names: Zazaki, Zaza, Dimli, Dimilki)

[cazyun]

YEAAH ITS a fake make created map..

parsi sure why dont you briing your iranian fellows? they can make mats?

parsi yout comment are always ridicolus you know why? because its smells to much iranian to be convincing.

[Serd]

"Zaza speakers from Dersim in general call themselves Kirmanc. They call their Zaza speaking brothers around the Murat river Zaza (And their language Zaza). Dimili is used for the region Siverek en sometimes also in Dersim. Next to this is the name "Gini". This is spoken in the area around Kayseri, Sivas and Malatya. And Dimili doesn't come from "Daylam", it comes from a big tribe named in the Sharafname. "

As I told you before, only in the inner Dersim, people call their dialects as “Kirmanjki”. If you go to outer parts of Dersim, people call it “Dimli”. Anyway, the “Zazaki” word is widely used in Dersim too. Moreover, Alevi Zazas from Erzincan, Varto and Kocgiri region of Sivas use the word “Zazaki” only to describe their language. So saying, “they [people of Dersim] call their Zaza speaking brothers around the Murat river Zaza,” is wrong because this word is used widely by themselves and other Zazas in different areas too. Anyway, I heard that sentence before, but I don't think it is a correct way of saying things.

I don't exactly know where the words "Dimli" and "Zaza" come from. I think nobody knows for sure. There are just wild speculations.

[Serd]

mrs serd dont compare kurmanci with persian thats only words borrowed from them iranians....part of assimilation politics by iranians..

you like iranians take your people and move there..

i dont think this dude serd is even a zazza whatever he is.... he compares to much pro persian and iranian

probably a iranie

Why don't you move to Turkmenistan? Since you like Turks so much. Just using your own ideology...

He's whatever he sees himself as. And no he isn't Iranian b/c he's made anti-Iranian statements in the past.

Oh really, when did I make anti-Iranian statements?

[Vladimir]

That’s a good question. Actually, German linguist Ludwig Paul divides the Zazaki language into three main dialects. He names these dialects as Northern, Central, and Southern dialects (Zazaki: Grammatik Und Versuch Einer Dialektologie, 1998). My Zazaish friend who studies Iranic languages at Frankfurt University as a Ph.D. also agrees with this classification and naming.

But the people Zazaki speaking people don't use the terms "Northern, Central or Southern" dialects. The same goes for talking about "Northern and Southern Kurdish". They are just created terms by politicians and scientists. I know the book of Ludwig Paul. I read it. He is the same kind of person as Paul White, Z. Selcan, etc.

[Parsi]

YEAAH ITS a fake make created map..

parsi sure why dont you briing your iranian fellows? they can make mats?

parsi yout comment are always ridicolus you know why? because its smells to much iranian to be convincing.

They can make mats? What? I don't know what's more funny, your thick head, or your horrible English

[Parsi]

mrs serd dont compare kurmanci with persian thats only words borrowed from them iranians....part of assimilation politics by iranians..

you like iranians take your people and move there..

i dont think this dude serd is even a zazza whatever he is.... he compares to much pro persian and iranian

probably a iranie

Why don't you move to Turkmenistan? Since you like Turks so much. Just using your own ideology...

He's whatever he sees himself as. And no he isn't Iranian b/c he's made anti-Iranian statements in the past.

Oh really, when did I make anti-Iranian statements?

Go back in your own posts, I'm sure you can find it.

How much do these three dialects differ? Can they communicate with ease amongst each other??

[Serd]

That’s a good question. Actually, German linguist Ludwig Paul divides the Zazaki language into three main dialects. He names these dialects as Northern, Central, and Southern dialects (Zazaki: Grammatik Und Versuch Einer Dialektologie, 1998). My Zazaish friend who studies Iranic languages at Frankfurt University as a Ph.D. also agrees with this classification and naming.

But the people Zazaki speaking people don't use the terms "Northern, Central or Southern" dialects. The same goes for talking about "Northern and Southern Kurdish". They are just created terms by politicians and scientists. I know the book of Ludwig Paul. I read it. He is the same kind of person as Paul White, Z. Selcan, etc.

In this context, it's not very important how people call their dialects. Yes of course, we should respect their naming. However, we have to find "appropriate" terms to refer to three main dialects. Having said that, Ethnologue's terminologies--which are "Kirmanjki" for northern dialect and "Dimli" for southern dialect--is not a good way to call these dialects. When somebody mentions "Dimli", it may refer the Dimli of Siverek or Dimli of Dersim. When somebody use the word "Kirmanjki" people of Varto--who speaks northern dialect--won't even understand what you meanby that term and may think that you are referring the "Kurmanci" of Kurdish. Well actually, that's the problem with the term "Kurmanjki"--people confuses with "Kurmanci". Moreover, in my hometown nobody call their dialect of Zazaki as "Dimli". But, Ethnologue uses this term to refer our region’s dialect.

To sum up, Ethnologue's terminology is not a good way of refering Zazaki dialects, and it is not very popular among Zazas either. Geographic terminology is more appropriate, and that is actually used more in Zazaki forums.

[Serd]

Go back in your own posts, I'm sure you can find it.

How much do these three dialects differ? Can they communicate with ease amongst each other??

I guess you are talking about this message that I wrote last week:

Axxx...people ALWAYS focus on differences rather than similarities...such a shame....

That's why no one gets along and that's why there is so much ethnic prejudice in the Middle East.

To the Zazas:

Does your slight cultural differences matter THAT much that you have to completely seperate yourselves from Kurds?

I've heard Zaza music, seen their dances, and even ate their food at a lake shore Restaurant in Chicago. It was as if I was in any other Kurdish Restaurant.

Keep this up and Middle East will be composed of teeny tiny poverty stricken countries while the West sits there and pities the poor Middle Eastern people who once were the Kings and Queens of the world.

Well, in America and Europe very few people can differentiate between Araps and Persians. Actually, many people think that Persians are Araps. So, maybe you should also accept the Arap identity. Probabaly, Araps and Persians should join together to form a single Middle Eastern country since people hardly differentiate between you. Oh wait a minute, you are half Azeri and half Kurdish--I learned that in this forum. I forget, sorry. You just pretend to be a Parsi, or.

By the way, Kurdish dialects, Kurmanci, Sorani, Kelhuri are also classified under Iranian Languages family. Many things that are common between Zazaki and Kurdi are also common in other Iranian Languages like Gilaki, Mazandarani, Farsi, Belluci, and others.

I don't think this message is anti-Iranian. I didn't even mention anything about "Iranian" or "Aryan". Too bad you are equating "Persian" and "Iranian" words. Persians are just only one part of the great Iranian civilization.

Anyway, this message is not anti-Persian either. I saw that you had a prejudice about Zazas, and I thought that my mesage was a good way of giving you an answer. Well actually that is the truth. People in America and Europe cannot really differentiate people from the so-called "Middle East". That is true for Turks also. They also complain about being confused with Arabs. By the way you are not Persian either. Actually, I am ethnically more Iranian than you. You are half Azari.

The difference between Zazaki dialects is similar to the difference between Azeri and the Turkish spoken in Anatolia. Moreover, there are some differences inside these main dialects too.

[Parsi]

Go back in your own posts, I'm sure you can find it.

How much do these three dialects differ? Can they communicate with ease amongst each other??

I guess you are talking about this message that I wrote last week:

Axxx...people ALWAYS focus on differences rather than similarities...such a shame....

That's why no one gets along and that's why there is so much ethnic prejudice in the Middle East.

To the Zazas:

Does your slight cultural differences matter THAT much that you have to completely seperate yourselves from Kurds?

I've heard Zaza music, seen their dances, and even ate their food at a lake shore Restaurant in Chicago. It was as if I was in any other Kurdish Restaurant.

Keep this up and Middle East will be composed of teeny tiny poverty stricken countries while the West sits there and pities the poor Middle Eastern people who once were the Kings and Queens of the world.

Well, in America and Europe very few people can differentiate between Araps and Persians. Actually, many people think that Persians are Araps. So, maybe you should also accept the Arap identity. Probabaly, Araps and Persians should join together to form a single Middle Eastern country since people hardly differentiate between you. Oh wait a minute, you are half Azeri and half Kurdish--I learned that in this forum. I forget, sorry. You just pretend to be a Parsi, or.

By the way, Kurdish dialects, Kurmanci, Sorani, Kelhuri are also classified under Iranian Languages family. Many things that are common between Zazaki and Kurdi are also common in other Iranian Languages like Gilaki, Mazandarani, Farsi, Belluci, and others.

I don't think this message is anti-Iranian. I didn't even mention anything about "Iranian" or "Aryan". Too bad you are equating "Persian" and "Iranian" words. Persians are just only one part of the great Iranian civilization.

Anyway, this message is not anti-Persian either. I saw that you had a prejudice about Zazas, and I thought that my mesage was a good way of giving you an answer. Well actually that is the truth. People in America and Europe cannot really differentiate people from the so-called "Middle East". That is true for Turks also. They also complain about being confused with Arabs. By the way you are not Persian either. Actually, I am ethnically more Iranian than you. You are half Azari.

The difference between Zazaki dialects is similar to the difference between Azeri and the Turkish spoken in Anatolia. Moreover, there are some differences inside these main dialects too.

I know I'm not Persian - but I'm an Iranian nationalist, and when you insult one group of Iranians, you insult them all

You can't compare my analysis of Zazas to a Westerner's analysis of the Middle East. I know something about Kurdish culture seeing how my Mother's side is Kurd while the Westerner thinks the Middle East is all Arabs living in a vast Sahara Desert.

That's really....WOW....Zazas live so close to one another, how did these distinct dialects form???

Oh and last time I checked - Azarbaijanis are Iranians too. Their culture is Iranian, so is most of their ancestry.

[cazyun]

parsi correct me ifa am wrong isn it persians ruling iran and classifies its lanugage as number 1 iranian?

you are a shame for you azeri bakground n kurdish thats being a betraider and spie support iranians when you know azeris are turks and your kurdish side? very weirdo a kurd would support and stand for a pan iranism. you either beeing brainwashed or likes work with mats

iranian is term that has been created by persian nationalist like your ideologies.

dont claim peoples are iranians withput proofs. you guys live in the past to much.

IRAN is a BIG joke so are so called iranians

[Jamo]

Go back in your own posts, I'm sure you can find it.

How much do these three dialects differ? Can they communicate with ease amongst each other??

I guess you are talking about this message that I wrote last week:

Axxx...people ALWAYS focus on differences rather than similarities...such a shame....

That's why no one gets along and that's why there is so much ethnic prejudice in the Middle East.

To the Zazas:

Does your slight cultural differences matter THAT much that you have to completely seperate yourselves from Kurds?

I've heard Zaza music, seen their dances, and even ate their food at a lake shore Restaurant in Chicago. It was as if I was in any other Kurdish Restaurant.

Keep this up and Middle East will be composed of teeny tiny poverty stricken countries while the West sits there and pities the poor Middle Eastern people who once were the Kings and Queens of the world.

Well, in America and Europe very few people can differentiate between Araps and Persians. Actually, many people think that Persians are Araps. So, maybe you should also accept the Arap identity. Probabaly, Araps and Persians should join together to form a single Middle Eastern country since people hardly differentiate between you. Oh wait a minute, you are half Azeri and half Kurdish--I learned that in this forum. I forget, sorry. You just pretend to be a Parsi, or.

By the way, Kurdish dialects, Kurmanci, Sorani, Kelhuri are also classified under Iranian Languages family. Many things that are common between Zazaki and Kurdi are also common in other Iranian Languages like Gilaki, Mazandarani, Farsi, Belluci, and others.

I don't think this message is anti-Iranian. I didn't even mention anything about "Iranian" or "Aryan". Too bad you are equating "Persian" and "Iranian" words. Persians are just only one part of the great Iranian civilization.

Anyway, this message is not anti-Persian either. I saw that you had a prejudice about Zazas, and I thought that my mesage was a good way of giving you an answer. Well actually that is the truth. People in America and Europe cannot really differentiate people from the so-called "Middle East". That is true for Turks also. They also complain about being confused with Arabs. By the way you are not Persian either. Actually, I am ethnically more Iranian than you. You are half Azari.

The difference between Zazaki dialects is similar to the difference between Azeri and the Turkish spoken in Anatolia. Moreover, there are some differences inside these main dialects too.

I know I'm not Persian - but I'm an Iranian nationalist, and when you insult one group of Iranians, you insult them all

You can't compare my analysis of Zazas to a Westerner's analysis of the Middle East. I know something about Kurdish culture seeing how my Mother's side is Kurd while the Westerner thinks the Middle East is all Arabs living in a vast Sahara Desert.

That's really....WOW....Zazas live so close to one another, how did these distinct dialects form???

Oh and last time I checked - Azarbaijanis are Iranians too. Their culture is Iranian, so is most of their ancestry.

Stop doing that Parsi we are not against Iran or any other country. Our only enemie is TURKEY We don't see the Kurds as our enemies either we just want to make them clear that we are not Kurdish. I see only the Turks as my enemies and dislike the Arabs. You are the one who is anti Zaza but we are not anti iran.

[Parsi]

Go back in your own posts, I'm sure you can find it.

How much do these three dialects differ? Can they communicate with ease amongst each other??

I guess you are talking about this message that I wrote last week:

Axxx...people ALWAYS focus on differences rather than similarities...such a shame....

That's why no one gets along and that's why there is so much ethnic prejudice in the Middle East.

To the Zazas:

Does your slight cultural differences matter THAT much that you have to completely seperate yourselves from Kurds?

I've heard Zaza music, seen their dances, and even ate their food at a lake shore Restaurant in Chicago. It was as if I was in any other Kurdish Restaurant.

Keep this up and Middle East will be composed of teeny tiny poverty stricken countries while the West sits there and pities the poor Middle Eastern people who once were the Kings and Queens of the world.

Well, in America and Europe very few people can differentiate between Araps and Persians. Actually, many people think that Persians are Araps. So, maybe you should also accept the Arap identity. Probabaly, Araps and Persians should join together to form a single Middle Eastern country since people hardly differentiate between you. Oh wait a minute, you are half Azeri and half Kurdish--I learned that in this forum. I forget, sorry. You just pretend to be a Parsi, or.

By the way, Kurdish dialects, Kurmanci, Sorani, Kelhuri are also classified under Iranian Languages family. Many things that are common between Zazaki and Kurdi are also common in other Iranian Languages like Gilaki, Mazandarani, Farsi, Belluci, and others.

I don't think this message is anti-Iranian. I didn't even mention anything about "Iranian" or "Aryan". Too bad you are equating "Persian" and "Iranian" words. Persians are just only one part of the great Iranian civilization.

Anyway, this message is not anti-Persian either. I saw that you had a prejudice about Zazas, and I thought that my mesage was a good way of giving you an answer. Well actually that is the truth. People in America and Europe cannot really differentiate people from the so-called "Middle East". That is true for Turks also. They also complain about being confused with Arabs. By the way you are not Persian either. Actually, I am ethnically more Iranian than you. You are half Azari.

The difference between Zazaki dialects is similar to the difference between Azeri and the Turkish spoken in Anatolia. Moreover, there are some differences inside these main dialects too.

I know I'm not Persian - but I'm an Iranian nationalist, and when you insult one group of Iranians, you insult them all

You can't compare my analysis of Zazas to a Westerner's analysis of the Middle East. I know something about Kurdish culture seeing how my Mother's side is Kurd while the Westerner thinks the Middle East is all Arabs living in a vast Sahara Desert.

That's really....WOW....Zazas live so close to one another, how did these distinct dialects form???

Oh and last time I checked - Azarbaijanis are Iranians too. Their culture is Iranian, so is most of their ancestry.

Stop doing that Parsi we are not against Iran or any other country. Our only enemie is TURKEY We don't see the Kurds as our enemies either we just want to make them clear that we are not Kurdish. I see only the Turks as my enemies and dislike the Arabs. You are the one who is anti Zaza but we are not anti iran.

When did I make an Anti-Zaza remark? Just because I don't understand why you seperate yourselves means I'm anti Zaza? Did I compare you to an Arab like your friend compared Persians to Arabs? NO.

All I did was question why you completely seperate yourselves from Kurds when your cultures are so close...