Misak I Milli

[Vladimir]

Indeed, Ocalan is regarded as the so-called 'philosoph' of the PKK. But in fact if you look to his ideas, they are not much different from the ideas of Yalcin Kucuk and dogu Perincek or the Ulusalcılar.

[talsor]

I have read some of what is so called "philosophy ,or APOCI " , they are nothing more than copy and Past from socialism to communisim , to canadian green party . It is very sad that even critisism of APO will get you killed among PKK .

No one is denying what he initiated for kurds and Kurdistan , and he will forever remembered for that . But personally I think he started something that was Much bigger than him and he was not prepared for it . We have to stop worshinping this individual and move one .

[Ramo]

Haval Ramo
I agree , The shallow mentality of worshinping leaders is very deep in our history , and we both know it is due to lack of education . We live in the 21 century and when leaders make mistake in the most civilized world they are taken to court .
what APO said in the Plane ( i hope you watched the video) is unforgiving and his apology in the turkish court is a discrease to him as a Kurds . Did you watch him making his statement in the court when he got arrested ???

I say APO sucks , because he is a coward , he forced the surrender of hundered of brave PKK member to save his neck , A true leader will never do that .

le gal rezim

Could you refer to what you are calling he saved his ass for hundreds of guerillas? any reliable source?

What he said in the plane was disturbing for most of us at the time being. But when you realise the work he did before and after, you would clearly see that something is wrong. Do I deny that Ocalan said he was a Turk? No. He very well could. He was in the hands of his enemies, everything could have happend.

How many of Ocalan's works have you read? It seems you know nothing of his policies.

[talsor]

Haval Ramo

I hope this dicussion does not upset you and I mean no disrespect , I'm a Kurd like you and a big supporter of PKK and any decent Kurd , you can clearly see that from my previous posts .

After Apo's arrest , PKK was in complet disarray which was understandable and they choose ( to everyone's surprise ) APO as their leader , Any one who objected to that was shot onsite ,


[size=150]"I'm ready to serve the Turkish state "

"'If I am accorded the appropriate guarantees, I can persuade all our men to come down from the hills within three months,'"

Which he did , and anyone objected to his orders was excuted or forced to surrender to Turkish state . Anyone with the least knowllege of PKK and Ocelan will tell you that . I suggest you read the world reaction to his trial , in the first day of the trial there were hundreds of jurnalists because everyone said that he is second Mandella or che Gevara . the second day everyone left ,

Yaser Za'atreh had this op-ed in center-left, influential Al-Dustur (6/3): "Ocalan failed the test when he finally faced his executioner.... Instead of becoming a Mandela, he has become a weak symbol begging for Turkey's mercy.... The Kurds who have burned themselves alive for his sake and those who were imprisoned for his sake have the right to feel disappointed in their leader who failed to stand fast and who turned their cause into an accusation to be apologized for."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9jun23.htm

[Kurdi-Bakur]

A traitor?? May I ask you why??

i cant explain u . if think. research....
i an tell u somethink
1.abdullah oc. is e 100%10000000000000000000 Kemalist (evry time say. love ataturk- ataturksi s good human. taturk taturk ataturk. wake up ataturk sleep ataturk - eating ataturks. ataurk da ataturk..
2. PKK (not guerillas know) created by turkish republic. because of kill kurds. and more.... research abdullah ocalan

[Vladimir]

How do you 'research Ocalan'? Do you know Turkish or Kurmanci? Where do you get your information from?

[Ramo]

Haval Ramo

I hope this dicussion does not upset you and I mean no disrespect , I'm a Kurd like you and a big supporter of PKK and any decent Kurd , you can clearly see that from my previous posts .

After Apo's arrest , PKK was in complet disarray which was understandable and they choose ( to everyone's surprise ) APO as their leader , Any one who objected to that was shot onsite ,


[size=150]"I'm ready to serve the Turkish state "

"'If I am accorded the appropriate guarantees, I can persuade all our men to come down from the hills within three months,'"

Which he did , and anyone objected to his orders was excuted or forced to surrender to Turkish state . Anyone with the least knowllege of PKK and Ocelan will tell you that . I suggest you read the world reaction to his trial , in the first day of the trial there were hundreds of jurnalists because everyone said that he is second Mandella or che Gevara . the second day everyone left ,

Yaser Za'atreh had this op-ed in center-left, influential Al-Dustur (6/3): "Ocalan failed the test when he finally faced his executioner.... Instead of becoming a Mandela, he has become a weak symbol begging for Turkey's mercy.... The Kurds who have burned themselves alive for his sake and those who were imprisoned for his sake have the right to feel disappointed in their leader who failed to stand fast and who turned their cause into an accusation to be apologized for."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9jun23.htm

You are a ridicilous PKK supporter, sorry my friend but you are. First of I am not angry at you. I do not know you. But the bs you are spreading about Ocalan is massive.

First you try to make a difference between ocalan and pkk. we both know thats impossible.

you and several others chose to leave apo but still hang on pkk. am i right? i respect that. but if you really were a pkk supporter by hard you would not take ocalans words big. remember what several kurdish intellectuals said when apo said these words: '' it will be like this for a while. he is in the hand of the enemy.'' even his defence court was pro-turkish... i mean what you want the man to do? write a novel about shering more blood? ocalan is just playing the game, nothing more nothing less.

[talsor]

Haval Ramo

You lack the very basic logic of understand what " APO is PKK and PKK is APO " means . Let me get down to your level and try to explain it to you .

If A=APO
and P=PKK
A is P and P is A (based on your logic )

So if A cease to exist , that mean P will cease to exist ?? does that make sense to you ? what I'm trying to explain is fairly simple and even elementary . Worshiping leaders and giving them the status of saints is the very first step towards dictatorship .

i mean what you want the man to do?

are you kidding me ?
All he had to do is shut his mouth , All he had to do is say Biji Kurdistan . He should have done what Mazlum Dogan did , but he is not man enough to do that . Istead ,
He begs the same govenment that slaughtered his nation to spare his life
He orders the great fighters of PKK to surrender to turkey , some are in jail now for life by the way , just to save his ass .
He admits that fighting turkey was wrong and he asks for forgivness

He is a pethatic loser and a coward , I mean how much low can he get

It is just agame ?

What game my friend ? APO supporters make me laugh when they say that , what the Hell KInd of game is that . What is the results of his game ?

[Kurdi-Bakur]

How do you 'research Ocalan'? Do you know Turkish or Kurmanci? Where do you get your information from?

i m kurmanci turkey. %100 kurdman and ı know who is hwo

[Vladimir]

And you are a KDP-supporter. So you aren't independent either;). Although what you say about PKK is mostly right.

[KurdiBoy]

The man was good in the late 1980s and most of the 1990s but he's just a coward now. And when you type on this site please refrain from posting in MongoTurkish. We hate Turks.

[Kurdi-Bakur]

yes i support the PDK (KPD).
and ı know waht s the PPK to want to do. ...and ı dont want to speak more....
and we r hate fashistens

[κє¢ê ∂îиê 63]

i cannot believe terorist öcalan is requesting that.

not öcalan, the turkish government is the terrorist, i think i've already told you that he hasn't established the PKK because he hasn't somthing to do.
you would have done the same, if it were you the relatives were killed, if it were you being penalized for speaking your language...

birseyi yazmadan önce düsünmeni öneriyorum sana nuray, cünki cogu zaman sacmaliyorsun

[Vladimir]

Ocalan wanted to become a 'Turkish' general. Later he failed class and joined leftist Turkish student movements. And finally became some sort of 'Kurdish nationalist'. So I don't agree with your idea. If the circumstances were right, he would be in a different position now.

[talsor]

Ocalan wanted to become a 'Turkish' general. Later he failed class and joined leftist Turkish student movements. And finally became some sort of 'Kurdish nationalist'. So I don't agree with your idea. If the circumstances were right, he would be in a different position now.

If the circumstances were different , would ALL be in a different position

I agree though , APO sucks