Apoist Apologizes for the Armenian Genocide

[Qonyeyi]

I promised myself not to come back for a while. This is exactly the reason. None the less this laughable topic deserves a message or two.

The message that was given by Ahmed Turk has really well been analyzed by Talsor and HzKurdi, so I will not go in to details. Here is a list of organisations and central Kurdish people that have apoligized for the massacre; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_re ... n_genocide ... Just to give an overview of how much this issue actualy hunts us whether we like it or not, whether our individual grandparents actually participated or not.

PKK only fighting for Ocalan... Same old rhetoric. Tell me, if PKK is only fighting for Ocalan, why are they still out there protecting the people? Why not just storm Imrali or Ankara and push Turkey to free him? Do you really, honestly, think that someone becomes a guerilla to liberate Ocalan? Do you really believe that the poor guy from Colemerg, Sirnex or Amed who has been tortured his whole life goes to Qandil in order to free Ocalan? You should start reading some biographies by some guerillas and what great pride they take in the protection of our people. Not only our people, but also all other people ( like the YPG in Rojava protects Armenians, Orthodox Syrians, Jews and Yezidi Kurds)

Yekenien Parastina Gel
Hezen Parastina Gel

They are peoples defense force, not Apo's. Get it into your head. Have some decency, have some respect.

Honest to God, when it comes to PKK and Apo, this forum has become one of the most negative one of all forums I have seen. And believe me, I follow some very anti PKK forums just for the laugh of it.

Bi xatire we.

[Cewlik]

But if everybody can see the Kurds as guilty (what they are not), I expect a apology from Asssyrians in the name of assyrian people for their participation in the Kurdish genocide.

I could not agree more .

So why the Apocis never ask them to apologize? And how should the armenian genocide be recognized in the international community according to them? Did they want that Kurds should be recognized as guilty officially?

PKK only fighting for Ocalan... Same old rhetoric. Tell me, if PKK is only fighting for Ocalan, why are they still out there protecting the people? Why not just storm Imrali or Ankara and push Turkey to free him?

Mybe because they dont can do it, or do you think they would not try it if they could?

Its about PKKs main goal. PKK/Workers Party starts as a communist party. Firts they fought for a independent communist Kurdistan. But then Öcalan mixed his personal ideology with the struggle. He gave up Kurdsistan many years ago. In the prison, Öcalan announced his idea of democratic autonomy, with is a typical communist idea wich is failed, where people in all villages and communes should rule themselves and where national borders are not needed anymore. That could be the constitution of the Soviet Union, maybe even it was. And of course such things ended everytime up in acommunist dictatorship.

Just because a party use sometimes the word Kurdistan, thats dont mean that they fight for it.

PKK follows only Öcalan, even after he was arrested. And Öcalan still want to be the only leader, because he want to use that for his intersets, like better conditions in the prison.

And Turkey use this situation like they did in 1999 where Öcalan ordered to the PKK to withdraw and surrender, what the PKK did, he even offered Turkey to order the PKK to attack south Kurdistan. Would anybody of you follow a leader who is in the hands of the enemy?

Is it right from the PKK/BDP to say Öcalan is the only solution, he is the only authorized person to negotiate in the Kurdish issue and that they will follow Öcalan whatever he says? Is it also not irritating that they reject Kurdish nationalism, that they just use Öcalan flags, slogans and T-shirts at demonstrations, and that they use a other Kurdish flag because they reject Alaya Rengin?

[Anthea]

PKK follows only Öcalan, even after he was arrested. And Öcalan still want to be the only leader, because he want to use that for his intersets, like better conditions in the prison.

And Turkey use this situation like they did in 1999 where Öcalan ordered to the PKK to withdraw and surrender, what the PKK did, he even offered Turkey to order the PKK to attack south Kurdistan. Would anybody of you follow a leader who is in the hands of the enemy?

Is it right from the PKK/BDP to say Öcalan is the only solution, he is the only authorized person to negotiate in the Kurdish issue and that they will follow Öcalan whatever he says? Is it also not irritating that they reject Kurdish nationalism, that they just use Öcalan flags, slogans and T-shirts at demonstrations, and that they use a other Kurdish flag because they reject Alaya Rengin?

Sadly Ocalan, a man who did so much good for the Kurds, is no longer behaving as he once did. I have voiced my doubts many times as to whether or not the Ocalan they have in prison is the real Ocalan and not a substitute. I believe that the reason his lawyers have not been allowed to visit him is due to him either being replaced by a substitute or under some form of mind control.

Members of the PKK joined to fight for freedom. People who I know gave up everything for a FREE KURDISTAN

If all the PKK wanted was the use of the Kurdish language and a few other crumbs thrown at them from the Turkish table, I will tell you exactly how many people would give up their families, their homes and their lives to join the PKK NONE

[spartacus]

[quote]Just because a party use sometimes the word Kurdistan, thats dont mean that they fight for it./quote]
What is Kurdistan according to you? the PKK comparing to you so called nationalists are fighting for all the kurds and are trying to find a political solution for all the kurds, the ones that right now have been displaced and are out of the kurdistan boundary. There is almost five millions kurds living in istanbul, What is your solution for them ore the two million kurds in Khorassan? I don't think that when Kurdistan is free you can put all of them in Amed ore that they will be wanting to return. but with the KCK system they can self-govern them self, speak kurdish, educate and organise themselves. with the KCK system that PKK is striving for the kurds in bakur will be independent for good degree and to thats good start. Like the kurds in Aleppo that are right now governing themselves in democratic way.

the kurds in bashur have autonomy in irak but still that does not include Kirkuk and some other kurdish cities, in other words it does not include all the kurds. To me it does not make sense to accuse PKK for not be fighting for Kurdistan, when Pkk is involved in all parts of kurdish areas, and when none of the big kurdish parties really call for a greater Kurdistan.

[Cewlik]

What is Kurdistan according to you?

Land of the Kurds!

There is almost five millions kurds living in istanbul, What is your solution for them ore the two million kurds in Khorassan? I don't think that when Kurdistan is free you can put all of them in Amed ore that they will be wanting to return.

You use the displaced Kurds, who are displaced because there was no Kurdish state, as an argument against a Kurdish state. That is obviously anti Kurdish propganda. Nobody can deny that Kurds have the right to have a own indipendent state like all other indipendent nations, even if there would be 100 Million displaced Kurds.

The Kurds in the diaspora have the right to stay where they are now, to go back to Kurdistan or to go to another country, whatevery they want.

the kurds in bashur have autonomy in irak but still that does not include Kirkuk and some other kurdish cities, in other words it does not include all the kurds.

First of all not the system self-determination/autonomy/independence exclude Kirkuk to be a part of Kurdistan, it was the Iraqi occupation. And Kirkuk is unofficially under Kurdish control. The KRG demand Kirkuk, they fought and still fight for it, because it is Kurdish land and belongs to Kurdistan.

Again you use such nonsensical arguments against a Kurdish independence. Is that your Apoist tactic? The aoutonomy in south Kurdistan reached more as your failed Apoist communis system. South Kurdistan is a de facto state and will hopefully become a indipendent state.

[spartacus]

What is Kurdistan according to you?

Land of the Kurds!

There is almost five millions kurds living in istanbul, What is your solution for them ore the two million kurds in Khorassan? I don't think that when Kurdistan is free you can put all of them in Amed ore that they will be wanting to return.

You use the displaced Kurds, who are displaced because there was no Kurdish state, as an argument against a Kurdish state. That is obviously anti Kurdish propganda. Nobody can deny that Kurds have the right to have a own indipendent state like all other indipendent nations, even if there would be 100 Million displaced Kurds.

The Kurds in the diaspora have the right to stay where they are now, to go back to Kurdistan or to go to another country, whatevery they want.

the kurds in bashur have autonomy in irak but still that does not include Kirkuk and some other kurdish cities, in other words it does not include all the kurds.

First of all not the system self-determination/autonomy/independence exclude Kirkuk to be a part of Kurdistan, it was the Iraqi occupation. And Kirkuk is unofficially under Kurdish control. The KRG demand Kirkuk, they fought and still fight for it, because it is Kurdish land and belongs to Kurdistan.

Again you use such nonsensical arguments against a Kurdish independence. Is that your Apoist tactic? The aoutonomy in south Kurdistan reached more as your failed communis system. It is a de facto state and will hopefully become a indipendent state.

What i mean is to have a state does not necessarily mean that the kurdish problem is solved. And to have the right to self-govern is better than not having anything at all. One thing you have to understand is that is not very likely that the kurds in khorassan will move back to mako ore urmie after 400 hundred years. And if you are truly a patriot and care about you fellow countryman then you will come up with a solution than just telling them that they can do whatever they wan to do.

And the KRG has all the potentials to get independent, but why are they not getting independent?
and i dont that Kirkuk will be a part of Kurdistan officially with the tactics that KRG using.

And i think that you have misunderstand me i am not against a independent Kurdistan ore KRG. I wish that Barzani will call for independence soon but il understand if he wont.
And honestly how independent is the KRG? economically they are to dependent on Iran and Turkey, because they are not producing anything, And politically also they cannot make a fuss without Turkeys permission.

[Anthea]

And honestly how independent is the KRG? economically they are to dependent on Iran and Turkey, because they are not producing anything, And politically also they cannot make a fuss without Turkeys permission.

spartacus how could you say that SK is not producing anything

South Kurdistan has one of the richest OIL reserves in the world and is more than capable of being economically independent

[Piling]

spartacus how could you say that SK is not producing anything

Jealousy ?

[Cewlik]

One thing you have to understand is that is not very likely that the kurds in khorassan will move back to mako ore urmie after 400 hundred years. And if you are truly a patriot and care about you fellow countryman then you will come up with a solution than just telling them that they can do whatever they wan to do.

Dont use the Kurds in Khorasan for your failed Apoist communist ideology. And dont use them as a argument against a Kurdish state.

I talked about the Kurds in the Diaspora like in Europe. The Kurds in Khorasan should have their rights as a minority there. But you dont can compare the Kurds in Khorasan with the Kurds in Kurdistan. Kurdistan have the right to become independent, it is the Land of Kurds where all Kurds came from also the Kurds in Khorasan.

And to have the right to self-govern is better than not having anything at all.

Dont argue with better than not having anything. 1€ is also better than nothing, but we talk about for what the Kurds should fight.

You follow blindly a person whatever he says. This Democratic autonomy is a typical communist idea, like in the Soviet Union or like in Libya under Gaddafi, which is against national states. Officially they want self-determination for small communes and villages, which ended everytime in dictatorship. Even if it would not end in dictatorship, it is a unrealistic and failed system.

And honestly how independent is the KRG?

More independent than Öcalan.

South Kurdistan is a de facto state, they reached more as Öcalans failed system. Even with their difficult geographic location they make the best of it. South Kurdistan is self-sufficient in food, watter electricity, oil and gas and they even export these products. The KRG have good international relations. They have the biggest and strongest Kurdish army, the population have prosperity and South Kurdistan hosts more than 80 thousand Kurdish refugees from west Kurdistan and the number is increasing every day.

The system is also free from personal and harmful ideologies.

[spartacus]

spartacus how could you say that SK is not producing anything

Jealousy ?

ohh my god are you serious? anyone that is criticising sk is jealous according to your mentality?

[spartacus]

One thing you have to understand is that is not very likely that the kurds in khorassan will move back to mako ore urmie after 400 hundred years. And if you are truly a patriot and care about you fellow countryman then you will come up with a solution than just telling them that they can do whatever they wan to do.

Dont use the Kurds in Khorasan for your failed Apoist communist ideology. And dont use them as a argument against a Kurdish state.

I talked about the Kurds in the Diaspora like in Europe. The Kurds in Khorasan should have their rights as a minority there. But you dont can compare the Kurds in Khorasan with the Kurds in Kurdistan. Kurdistan have the right to become independent, it is the Land of Kurds where all Kurds came from also the Kurds in Khorasan.

And to have the right to self-govern is better than not having anything at all.

Dont argue with better than not having anything. 1€ is also better than nothing, but we talk about for what the Kurds should fight.

You follow blindly a person whatever he says. This Democratic autonomy is a typical communist idea, like in the Soviet Union or like in Libya under Gaddafi, which is against national states. Officially they want self-determination for small communes and villages, which ended everytime in dictatorship. Even if it would not end in dictatorship, it is a unrealistic and failed system.

And honestly how independent is the KRG?

More independent than Öcalan.

South Kurdistan is a de facto state, they reached more as Öcalans failed system. Even with their difficult geographic location they make the best of it. South Kurdistan is self-sufficient in food, watter electricity, oil and gas and they even export these products. The KRG have good international relations. They have the biggest and strongest Kurdish army, the population have prosperity and South Kurdistan hosts more than 80 thousand Kurdish refugees from west Kurdistan and the number is increasing every day.

The system is also free from personal and harmful ideologies.

why cant i use the kurds in khorassan?, to me they are as much kurds as any other kurds living in hewler, heleb ore in istanbul. And i support a solution for all the kurds not only kurds in a small part of the greater kurdistan. i am for a solution for all kurds with any religion ore ideology.

Still the KRG is not a independent state but you want the PKK to announce independence in bakur? and please i don't know why you are comparing kck system with ghadafis system o soviet union the pkk also criticise soviet union. and if i want i can also compare barzani with sadam hussein like many kurds in bashur are saying right know, but i know thats not fair even if the system in bashur has many problems.

[Fire]

You should come to a PKK Event here in Germany. Then you see how many kurdish flags are there and how loud and proud the PKK Kurds sing the Kurdish national Anthem. And you should especially make a difference between younger Kurds and older Kurds. While the older Kurds are influenced with communistic ideas the younger ones are heavily nationalistic. I swear it. I always see it with my own eyes and I often talk to them. They are very proud kurds with Kurdish flags in their rooms and they love their kurdish Nation. And they are all PKK Kurds.

The "official aim" of PKK is Kurdish autonomy. And I mean, this is already like a Country. The fucking Turkish state loses their right then to put their ugly dirty Hands in Kurdish territory. Kurds decides for theirself. And I'm sure, Kurdish autonomy would automatically follow into a Kurdish Country. This is linked to each other. And btw, I'm sure that PKK have nothing against a Kurdish Country, first of all you must get the autonomy to think about a Country. You can't do the second step before the first step. You have a huge enemy in front of you which you have to beat.

And, no matter whether you like Apo or not. He is possibly the biggest leader in Kurdish History. He managed it to awake a death Nation who did already forget that they were Kurds. He awaked us and makes clear that we are Kurds. 30 years ago nobody had the balls in Turkey to say that he was Kurds. Nowadays People in Istanbul are Hearing loud Kurdish Music on the streets and say that they are proud Kurds. All These things happened because of APO and PKK. And much much more will follow. So If Apo is a Kurdhater why did he do it then. Lol. This PKK bashing on this site are pathetic. I sometimes ask myself if These PKK Haters are just Little ugly Turks who wants to divide Kurds.

[spartacus]

the sad thing is that the barzani followers concentrate on small things just to attack the PKK.
Maybe they should take a look at the government in bashur, to me it looks more like nepotism than a democratic system.


mes'ud barzanî - Pres of KDP and Pres of Kurdistan (nephew/braza)
nêçîrvan îdrîs barzanî - vice-pres of KDP and PM of Kurdistan (nephew/braza)
rewan îdrîs barzanî - General and head of nêçîrvan barzanî's security (son)
mesrur mes'ud barzanî - KDP politburo member, head of national security council and head of KDP intelegence (son)
mensur mes'ud barzanî - Head of special zêrevanî forces (grandson)
nasr mensur mes'ud barzanî - pres of pêşmergeye sports club (brother)
sîdad barzanî - member of KDP leadership council, head of Masoud's office (brother)
dlşad barzanî - KRG rep to Italy (brother)
weciye barzanî - head of regional forces (brother)
sîhad barzanî - head of KDP artillery (brother)
nîhad barzanî - Head of presidential tribal affairs office (nephew/braza)
îcra îdrîs barzanî - head of nêçîrvan barzanî's office (cousin)
edhem barzanî - KDP leadership council and former pm (cousin)
şêx sîracedîn barzanî - head of mîn organisation (cousin)
'ebidulmweeymen barzanî - minister of pensions (uncle)
hoşiyar zêbarî - Iraqi FM and kdp politiburo member (uncle)
babekir zêbarî - highest ranking officer in the iraqi army
dlşad şîhab barzanî - minister of local councils

[FeyliKurd]

spartacus how could you say that SK is not producing anything

Jealousy ?

Why would he be jealous? Are you trying to spread division among kurds?!

Kurdish land belongs to all kurds, it doesn't matter what part of Kurdistan you are from.

[Piling]

Not a question of being from South, North or from diaspora, but a rivalry between parties, When Öcalan states that he is against the independence of S. K., it is only because he will never be the leader of that republic.