Zazaîstan - Kurdistan - Luristan

[zurderer]

Iranic is NOT a regional term! It is a linguistic term! Iranic cannot becompared with Anatolian!!!

oki, so It is a langauge group. It still means nothing.

Zazaki and Kurdish are sister languages, they belong to the northwestern branch of Iranic languages.

Ok. You are right, They are two different langauge. Like hungarian and turkish.

I dont care If zazaki is considered as a separate languuge or not but these two languages are actually very very close to eachother.

Yeah, you dont understand each other. A russian and bulgarian can understand each other, or an uygur and turk can understand each other.

And please dont claim that turks are related to the Iranic Kurmanjs and Zazas. there is no kinship between turks and Kurds.

we asimilated you, armenians and a lot others. So a part of our people are infact zaza and kurds.(can you say same? can you say a part of kırmancı are zazas?)

I say Kurmanjs and Zazas are proved to be racially the same.

like greeks and turks? hmm. so what do you think about armenians? armenians and kurds have a lot similarity.

Moreover turks had not a glorious culture is not a shame, they had not.

ah my friend, Infact turks have more glorious culture than kurds. I said before, eger evin camdansa baskasının evine tas atma. Boyle salaklıkları bıraksan daha iyi olur. Ozellikede kurdistanda, kurd yapısından cok turk yapısı eserler varken.

No one attacked turks, they by themslves adopted Islam because they needed it.

Infact, arabs attacked turks. Anyway, It is a known fact we choose islam valuntarily.

And Ottoman empire had not a Turkish culture it only had some ethnic Turks as rulers in the occupied constantinople;

is it kurdish? If ottoman empire is not Turkish, so we should call ottoman empire as kurdish?

I wont discuss with you anymore if u are not able to provide neutral sources for your claims.
Here is my evidence that Zazas and Kurmanjs are racisally the same:

did they do same test at turks who living at eastern anatolia? hmm? People who live at same regions are generally same. It is why eastern of anatolia people looks like same, and at western anatolia people look like same. At black see, people are different than these two different place.

Should we call all these people as different races?

Firstly you said, you and zazas are same because you are under same langauge family.(I said this is totally nonsense, I am sure you wont accept If persian call you as persian.)

Secondly you said, there is genetic similarity between you and zazas(I did not refused this.), but Infact genetic similarity is related with not nations but regions.

still not any acceptable proof.

[Diri]

I must disagree with your comment on Azarbaijani culture though. Each part of Azarbaijan is different. Tabriz area is closer to Persian culture while Urmiye area is closer to Kurdish.

Are you serious?

Ûrmiye is KURDISTAN... Not Azerbaijan...


@ "Each part of Azerbaijan"...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Western half of "West Azarbaijan" province is Kurdish - the other is Azar. My grandfather is from Urmiye area...

No - that is wrong... ALL of the area west of the ÛRMIYE lake is KURDISH and was KURDISH before the Azeri started migrating a century back in time...

Historically - Kurds have even been fighting the Azeris for Tewrîz! Let alone Ûrmiye - which everybody KNOWS is Kurdish...

The morons in Tehran just splitt Kurdistan into many pieces to weaken Kurdish identity! From Naxchevan to the Ûrmiye lake's northern fring - and all the western side of the Ûrmiye lake and down from the southern fring of Ûrmiye lake to Bijar = KURDISTAN... That is the Azeri-Kurdish border - for a century now... Before - Kurds used to even fight for Tewrîz... Simkoyê Shikak did so too...

There ARE Azeri INCLAVES around Ûrmiye, YES - but that doesn't make Ûrmiye Azeri...

[Parsi]

I must disagree with your comment on Azarbaijani culture though. Each part of Azarbaijan is different. Tabriz area is closer to Persian culture while Urmiye area is closer to Kurdish.

Are you serious?

Ûrmiye is KURDISTAN... Not Azerbaijan...


@ "Each part of Azerbaijan"...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Western half of "West Azarbaijan" province is Kurdish - the other is Azar. My grandfather is from Urmiye area...

No - that is wrong... ALL of the area west of the ÛRMIYE lake is KURDISH and was KURDISH before the Azeri started migrating a century back in time...

Historically - Kurds have even been fighting the Azeris for Tewrîz! Let alone Ûrmiye - which everybody KNOWS is Kurdish...

The morons in Tehran just splitt Kurdistan into many pieces to weaken Kurdish identity! From Naxchevan to the Ûrmiye lake's northern fring - and all the western side of the Ûrmiye lake and down from the southern fring of Ûrmiye lake to Bijar = KURDISTAN... That is the Azeri-Kurdish border - for a century now... Before - Kurds used to even fight for Tewrîz... Simkoyê Shikak did so too...

There ARE Azeri INCLAVES around Ûrmiye, YES - but that doesn't make Ûrmiye Azeri...

ooh sorry! I confused Gilan w/ East Azarbaijan I'm such a dork

[Rizgaraso]

Iranic is NOT a regional term! It is a linguistic term! Iranic cannot becompared with Anatolian!!!

oki, so It is a langauge group. It still means nothing.

Zazaki and Kurdish are sister languages, they belong to the northwestern branch of Iranic languages.

Ok. You are right, They are two different langauge. Like hungarian and turkish.

I dont care If zazaki is considered as a separate languuge or not but these two languages are actually very very close to eachother.

Yeah, you dont understand each other. A russian and bulgarian can understand each other, or an uygur and turk can understand each other.

And please dont claim that turks are related to the Iranic Kurmanjs and Zazas. there is no kinship between turks and Kurds.

we asimilated you, armenians and a lot others. So a part of our people are infact zaza and kurds.(can you say same? can you say a part of kırmancı are zazas?)

I say Kurmanjs and Zazas are proved to be racially the same.

like greeks and turks? hmm. so what do you think about armenians? armenians and kurds have a lot similarity.

Moreover turks had not a glorious culture is not a shame, they had not.

ah my friend, Infact turks have more glorious culture than kurds. I said before, eger evin camdansa baskasının evine tas atma. Boyle salaklıkları bıraksan daha iyi olur. Ozellikede kurdistanda, kurd yapısından cok turk yapısı eserler varken.

No one attacked turks, they by themslves adopted Islam because they needed it.

Infact, arabs attacked turks. Anyway, It is a known fact we choose islam valuntarily.

And Ottoman empire had not a Turkish culture it only had some ethnic Turks as rulers in the occupied constantinople;

is it kurdish? If ottoman empire is not Turkish, so we should call ottoman empire as kurdish?

I wont discuss with you anymore if u are not able to provide neutral sources for your claims.
Here is my evidence that Zazas and Kurmanjs are racisally the same:

did they do same test at turks who living at eastern anatolia? hmm? People who live at same regions are generally same. It is why eastern of anatolia people looks like same, and at western anatolia people look like same. At black see, people are different than these two different place.

Should we call all these people as different races?

Firstly you said, you and zazas are same because you are under same langauge family.(I said this is totally nonsense, I am sure you wont accept If persian call you as persian.)

Secondly you said, there is genetic similarity between you and zazas(I did not refused this.), but Infact genetic similarity is related with not nations but regions.

still not any acceptable proof.

1) If a linguistic term means nothing then you should forget about turkic murkic nonsense!! But does your double standards let you?

2)Zazaki and Kurdish are not like Hungarian and Turkish! Zazaki and Kurdish are sister languages you know what a sister language is? they are at the border of being regarded as the same or not, but your example of Hungarian and Turkish is really absurd, these even do not belong two one language family!!!! the relation between Zazaki and Kurmanji is like Danish and Norwegian, while the relation between Hungarian and Turkish is like Arabic and English. educate yourself!

3) A Russian and a Bulgarian understand eachother because they have a good knowledge of their own mother tongues, but this is not true for innocent Kurmanjs and Zazas under facsism of a mongolied tyranny, (republic of turkeys). I personally have a good knowlegde of Kurdish then I can understand Persian and many other Iranic languages. I even can guess some Indian senteces and words out of Indian films. But for your information an Iraqi Arab and an Arab of Morocco cannot understand eachother for one hunderd years if they do not speak in a third language.
So your biased argument is absurd once again.

4) lolz, i know that many of Anatolian Turks are of Armenian, Arabic, Iranic, and Greek origins. your problem is from Atat**k that cheated you.
But the similarity between Zazas and Kurds and persians is much more than what you may compare with turks. Zazas and Kurds and Persians all linguistically and ethnically have one origin. they have no relations to slejuq paljuq or other non-Iranic peoples.

5)I see no Turkish culture. Kurds already got their own Iranian culture. what about turks? is not what they got a copy of other nation? is not Ottoman culture (what you wrongly call turkish ) a copy of other middle eastern nations from Arabs, to Iranians, to greeks and others?
and in response to what u said in Turkish: Our home is made of glorious Iranian culture, what is your cultural homee made of? Do you know what Mevlana believed about Turks?

But remember if turks were not so racist and facsist I never would say these realities; but you deserve such a rude attitude.

6) If Ottoman empire is not Turkish then what it is? well it was ruled by turkmens, but culturally it was nothing but an islamic empire. even the Ottoman rulers referrd to themselves as Caliphate, an Islamic court term!)

7)So you accept that Zazas and Kurds are closely related, and also you accept that they are different than turks of western occupied Anatolia.

I am not going to say Zazas are Kurds forcibly, (despite tones of facts), nore persians actually say Kurds are persian. Almost all Persians i've met say Kurds are brothers not sons of Persians.

Please provide some sources for your claims!

[Vladimir]

no but, after so much centuries, they still easly understand each other. So why dont a zaza understand kırmanci? Because, you have two different langauge. If you had same langauge at past, you would be still same langauge.

I repeat: Why a Ughur Turk from China doesn't understand a Turk from Turkey? They are both still Turks. Same goes for Zazaki/Kurmanci/Hewrami/Laki/Sorani/Kelhori/etc Kurds. Kurds didn't have a state institution to make one dialect dominant. Also in Holland we still have Dutch dialects. But only one is dominant.

[Jamo]

no but, after so much centuries, they still easly understand each other. So why dont a zaza understand kırmanci? Because, you have two different langauge. If you had same langauge at past, you would be still same langauge.

I repeat: Why a Ughur Turk from China doesn't understand a Turk from Turkey? They are both still Turks. Same goes for Zazaki/Kurmanci/Hewrami/Laki/Sorani/Kelhori/etc Kurds. Kurds didn't have a state institution to make one dialect dominant. Also in Holland we still have Dutch dialects. But only one is dominant.

Stop lying Vladimir! Zazaki is definetly not a Kurdish dialect. Zazaki is a Iranian language such as Persian, Kurmanci (Kurdish) and Belutchi. You can not tell me that Dutch is a German or English accent. Same for Zazaki.

[Rizgaraso]

no but, after so much centuries, they still easly understand each other. So why dont a zaza understand kırmanci? Because, you have two different langauge. If you had same langauge at past, you would be still same langauge.

I repeat: Why a Ughur Turk from China doesn't understand a Turk from Turkey? They are both still Turks. Same goes for Zazaki/Kurmanci/Hewrami/Laki/Sorani/Kelhori/etc Kurds. Kurds didn't have a state institution to make one dialect dominant. Also in Holland we still have Dutch dialects. But only one is dominant.

Stop lying Vladimir! Zazaki is definetly not a Kurdish dialect. Zazaki is a Iranian language such as Persian, Kurmanci (Kurdish) and Belutchi. You can not tell me that Dutch is a German or English accent. Same for Zazaki.

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

unfortunately I cannot expect any thing rationale regarding ethnologic linguistic and cultural issues from most citizens of turkeys since they all have been born and raised up under an extreme chavunistic society and view everything through a chauvunist viewpoint.

[King Diyako]

Dear friends,
Kurdish dialect speakers such as zaza or gorni(hewrami) are part on breakable Kurdistan.
Now one may say this sound kind fascim propaganda which acting like turks…
First well..kurdistan is like a child ,who has been mislead, abused, such child have no desire of past and certainly have no conscious when come to judging about his past …what my case here is, very simple logical perspective..those who been ripping out Kurdistan and destroying it for centuries, they have not just done military but also true their system brain transmission, they know Kurdish society more than Kurds know themselves, they know the layers, and they know very well the weakest.and they know how to separate them…
Having say that…I am not ageist my fellow Kurds from zaza, soran ,,etc to create their own entity..But let back to child issue again. Do really those who advocate of such idea have any conscious mind?
I so here someone said..that well anyone who doesn’t consider themselves as Kurdish,, cant no push be Kurdish and so on… this is wrong assumption…today a lot part Kurdistan a lot people have lost their soul and hope, they well integrated to oppressive systems, ..Dose really this peoples have any conscious mind? the answer is NO ? Do realy this peoples did had opturunity to search their identity before accepting? Answer is No again..any many more NO NO….
I am here to say I am protector of conscious mind where in free Kurdistan all those Kurdish dialect equally represented with no favoritism or supremacy..And let our nation to developed there own backbone and reality of past..and that will be a time I would ask who is soran or a Kurd? Zaza or a Kurd? Goran or a Kurd? Whatever answer would be the spirit of great Kurdistan would lead the path..until then… I shall remain ultimate guardian of Kurdistan with all its entity and treasures. Those who lost souls and dignity and bringing such Kurdish enemies propaganda and nonsense will be crashed and melted way…

[Serd]

I see some people are mixing apples and bananas. Kurmanci and Sorani are not very different from each other. Educated Kurmanci and Sorani speakers can understand each others dialects. However, Zazaki and Gorani are separate languages, and there is absolutely no way that a Kurmanci or Sorani speaker can understand a Zazaki speaker, or vice versa.

From time to time, I hear people are talking about imposing a so-called "Standard Kurdish" language (a mixture of Sorani/Kurmanci) on others. Well actually in 2002, I heard PKK will press for extermination of Zazaki language. I don't know if they still plan to do that. Anyway, their power is not enough to do that.

By the way, I found a nice link about "Genealogical tree of Iranian languages" from Frankfurt University. Take a look:
http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/di ... anstam.htm

[Serd]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

[Rizgaraso]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

Turcophone! It is not about ''who'', the point is here. If not chavunists like your atat**k had already succeded in performing their mongolic ideas on people of Middle east.

The point is what makes a people an ethnic group and what does not.

[Serd]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

Turcophone! It is not about ''who'', the point is here. If not chavunists like your atat**k had already succeded in performing their mongolic ideas on people of Middle east.

The point is what makes a people an ethnic group and what does not.

I see you are getting frustrated. I guess you realized that you cannot convince me with your crab. Now you are attacking me. From a Zaza perspective, I don't really see any difference between a chavunist Turks and people like you. Both of you want to assimilate us; not so hard to see it.

[Rizgaraso]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

Turcophone! It is not about ''who'', the point is here. If not chavunists like your atat**k had already succeded in performing their mongolic ideas on people of Middle east.

The point is what makes a people an ethnic group and what does not.

I see you are getting frustrated. I guess you realized that you cannot convince me with your crab. Now you are attacking me. From a Zaza perspective, I don't really see any difference between a chavunist Turks and people like you. Both of you want to assimilate us; not so hard to see it.

lolz, I am not frsutrated, I'm just mocking you!

Assimilate what? that's very funny and ridiculous! you have nothing for us to be zealous at; you have no population, no land, no history, nothing important; whatever you got is Kurdish. even historically your people were identified as Kurds cuz they had nothing! just let u know, i dont care a s**t about people like you. I never think about unimportant people like you.

But the point you dont get or dont want to get is Kurdishness. Of course I know that you have been under pressure of a bunch of savage mongols (you know them as turks) who for long have had negative propaganda against Kurds. Back to my discussion all the Iranic peoples of Zagros Taurus mountains regardless of their tribal vernaculars have historically been identified as Kurds. you confuse Kurd with Kurmanj (the same as many confuse Iranian with Persian). We have Hewramis in southern Kurdistan speak exactly the same dialect as zazas, but unlike Zazas they consider themselves as 'true Kurds'. IN FACT they do not consider Kurmanjs as true Kurds!!!! Their identity is Kurdish. their vernacular is also respected by other non-Hewrami-speaking Kurds. Indeed under semi-independent Kurdish state of Erdelan it was for centuries Hewrami which was the official and dominant dialect despite of the fact that the Hewramis were and still are a minority!!!

Your other peoblem is that you confuse Kurd with Turk. You have seen a turkish (read mongolian) state and think every other nation is trying to assimilate (lol) you!!! you are escaping from your own ethnic identity!

[Serd]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

Turcophone! It is not about ''who'', the point is here. If not chavunists like your atat**k had already succeded in performing their mongolic ideas on people of Middle east.

The point is what makes a people an ethnic group and what does not.

I see you are getting frustrated. I guess you realized that you cannot convince me with your crab. Now you are attacking me. From a Zaza perspective, I don't really see any difference between a chavunist Turks and people like you. Both of you want to assimilate us; not so hard to see it.

lolz, I am not frsutrated, I'm just mocking you!

Assimilate what? that's very funny and ridiculous! you have nothing for us to be zealous at; you have no population, no land, no history, nothing important; whatever you got is Kurdish. even historically your people were identified as Kurds cuz they had nothing! just let u know, i dont care a s**t about people like you. I never think about unimportant people like you.

But the point you dont get or dont want to get is Kurdishness. Of course I know that you have been under pressure of a bunch of savage mongols (you know them as turks) who for long have had negative propaganda against Kurds. Back to my discussion all the Iranic peoples of Zagros Taurus mountains regardless of their tribal vernaculars have historically been identified as Kurds. you confuse Kurd with Kurmanj (the same as many confuse Iranian with Persian). We have Hewramis in southern Kurdistan speak exactly the same dialect as zazas, but unlike Zazas they consider themselves as 'true Kurds'. IN FACT they do not consider Kurmanjs as true Kurds!!!! Their identity is Kurdish. their vernacular is also respected by other non-Hewrami-speaking Kurds. Indeed under semi-independent Kurdish state of Erdelan it was for centuries Hewrami which was the official and dominant dialect despite of the fact that the Hewramis were and still are a minority!!!

Your other peoblem is that you confuse Kurd with Turk. You have seen a turkish (read mongolian) state and think every other nation is trying to assimilate (lol) you!!! you are escaping from your own ethnic identity!

In one of my posts, I said, "I have the feeling about 80% of what you guys say is crap." Now I have the feeling about 100% of what you said above is crab.

However, I liked your new story. You are getting more creative. Well, keep on going dude. Roj Bash needs you!

[Rizgaraso]

Do you know that language classification and ethnic classification are two different issues? This two do not match in many cases.

Second, Do you know there is no definite border between langues and dialect? Do you know what is a languge and what is a dialect?

Oh really! Well, who does decide the ethnic classification then? And, who does decide what is a languge and what is a dialect? People like you?

Turcophone! It is not about ''who'', the point is here. If not chavunists like your atat**k had already succeded in performing their mongolic ideas on people of Middle east.

The point is what makes a people an ethnic group and what does not.

I see you are getting frustrated. I guess you realized that you cannot convince me with your crab. Now you are attacking me. From a Zaza perspective, I don't really see any difference between a chavunist Turks and people like you. Both of you want to assimilate us; not so hard to see it.

lolz, I am not frsutrated, I'm just mocking you!

Assimilate what? that's very funny and ridiculous! you have nothing for us to be zealous at; you have no population, no land, no history, nothing important; whatever you got is Kurdish. even historically your people were identified as Kurds cuz they had nothing! just let u know, i dont care a s**t about people like you. I never think about unimportant people like you.

But the point you dont get or dont want to get is Kurdishness. Of course I know that you have been under pressure of a bunch of savage mongols (you know them as turks) who for long have had negative propaganda against Kurds. Back to my discussion all the Iranic peoples of Zagros Taurus mountains regardless of their tribal vernaculars have historically been identified as Kurds. you confuse Kurd with Kurmanj (the same as many confuse Iranian with Persian). We have Hewramis in southern Kurdistan speak exactly the same dialect as zazas, but unlike Zazas they consider themselves as 'true Kurds'. IN FACT they do not consider Kurmanjs as true Kurds!!!! Their identity is Kurdish. their vernacular is also respected by other non-Hewrami-speaking Kurds. Indeed under semi-independent Kurdish state of Erdelan it was for centuries Hewrami which was the official and dominant dialect despite of the fact that the Hewramis were and still are a minority!!!

Your other peoblem is that you confuse Kurd with Turk. You have seen a turkish (read mongolian) state and think every other nation is trying to assimilate (lol) you!!! you are escaping from your own ethnic identity!

In one of my posts, I said, "I have the feeling about 80% of what you guys say is crap." Now I have the feeling about 100% of what you said is crab.

However, I liked your new story. You are getting more creative. Well, keep on going dude. Roj Bash needs you!

So you are stupidier than to being talked to?!! I got it!

Anywas what I said was historic facts; it's not my fault that you have never heard about famous state of Erdelan which was invaded by Qajars.