the PKK is dead

[arcan_dohuk]

this group does not exist. the turks are using it as an excuse to interfere in iraq's business.

so discuss

[kassem]

w

[arcan_dohuk]

the should give up their armed struggle. the way to hurt really turkey is through the EU. believe me i dont like it either but we have to be smart about this.

[arcan_dohuk]

they should settle down and live the rest of their lives in peace. right southern kurdistan is full of oppertunity.

[kassem]

w

[arcan_dohuk]

that doesnt mean they cant be integrated into the south. they should put down their arms and disperse. they are kurds and kurds should help oneanother.

[kassem]

w

[Piling]

Not exactly dead, at the point of death for 5 years... but like the former Pope, it will be on a drip, between death and life, because it is so useful for much ppl, and among them are Turks : a good excuse for preventing reform in favour of Kurds in Turkey and, I agree with Dohuk, a good way to intervene in Iraqi Kurdistan... the problem is that since 2003, they are surprised to face a string opposition from Iraqi Kurds : No Turks in Iraq. A new attitude if we remember the time of civil war. But Turks did not still renounce to play their own card in Iraq, and for that aim, the ghostly guerilla in Qandil is an instrument.

[arcan_dohuk]

the armed struggle should end and diplomacy should take it place.

[kassem]

w

[Piling]

the problem is that for making diplomacy, Kurds in Turkey need real representatives, not MIT puppets of brainless dogmatic militants. For the moment, the real representative of Kurd's rights in Turkey is UE, not because they are all in love with Kurds, just because countries which would like to accept Turkey don't want a Kurdish question inside their borders, and those which don't want to accept Turkey use the Kurdish question as an excuse for refusing. Since now, all the reforms in favour of Kurds have been made because of the Turkish candidacy for UE.

But it would be an absolute mistake to re-start a war without any chance to win it.

[kassem]

w

[heval]

I would agree that the PKK objectives are a little undefined as of now. One of the major reasons for their problem is a lack of a defined position and a definition of what their organization exactly represents. They have changed their mission as many times as they have changed their name, and this makes it hard for them to interpret their goals and get their points across.

But.. I wouldn't say they're dead. If you want to discuss their armed struggle alone, they have been very successful in the last few months. In the last forty operations by the Turkish military, there has been about 120 Turkish military casualties and only about 14 Kurdish guerilla casualties. The TUrkish military is definitely having a tough time with them.

I do agree that they need to make some changes though. BUt I am not too excited about the whole EU thing. Even if TUrkey makes most (because they will never make all) changes necessary, there are still big issues that stand in the way. Two, for example, are 1) they have not even attempted to make plans to return Kurdish villagers to their homes and rebuild Kurdistan, and 2) they are in the process of building the Isilu damn which is going to be flooding even more of Kurdistan.

So what can the Kurds do next? Put down arms and watch Kurdistan get destroyed, or pick up arms and watch Kurdistan get destroyed?

[Piling]

DEHAP has lost election only because of its stupid alliance with the SHP and its incoherent policy.

http://sohrawardi.blogspot.com/2004/03/ ... local.html

In Turkey, each time that Kurdish parties had been banned, ppl have voted for islamists. It was the same thing now : ppl had not a real Kurdish party, so they did vote AKP.


And for UE : Economical criterions of Copenhaguen don't accept a too strong disparity, difference of enconomy and develoment between regions in a same country. Even without considering hulman's rights questions, the fact that Kurdistan is destroyed prevent Turkey to fit these criterions. The problem is how they are going to rebuild South-eastern area.

[abdur]

It is true that the alliance of Dehap with the SHP was desastrous for the elections, but even if they didnt ally with the leftist turks they wouldnt get more than 5-6% which isnt enough to get into the parliament. In all the previous elections the kurdish parties hep/dep/hadep got around 5% while not always allying themselves with the turks. One thing they definately had to do in the previous election was participating in the elections as independents, the parliament would have had a lot of independent kurds that way and those elected kurds could of course make strategies on how to act.

The problem is bigger than the Dehap party itself, we have around 6 million kurds (entitled to vote) who say they are proud to be turkish citizens. There must be ways to reach them. The assimilation process is thanks to the pkk stopped now, it's time to reverse it completely and let people not be ashamed of their origin anymore. Kurdish tv, kurdish language, kurdish music, kurdish names, kurdish schools, all those new earned freedoms must be used everywhere in the country.

The islam in Turkey is in my view only that strong because of the kemalists who opressed this religion with so many rules (for example the banned headscarf at school), if you fight someone's religion that person's believe will only get stronger. In Iran it's kind of the opposite, a lot of people have had enough of this by the state pressed religion. But since the akp's reforms i believe there is going to be no longer the desire in the future to vote for islamic parties that much as in the previous election.

but at the same time they would still have to respect serok apo otherwise they'd lose popular support

I believe they must be really independent of apo, not like Zana a sort of mouthpiece for him. Still respecting both of them is of course nothing wrong with as long as they make their own policy.

And now something little ontopic The pkk isnt dead, but with so many friends who left them (Syria, Iran, Iraq, Greece) and knowing that a militairy solution is impossible i believe the best thing for kurdish cause is that all of their guerilla dissolves or join other liberation movements like the peshmerga in the south. Their political side (previously called ERNK) should be using it's remaining powers to reverse the assimilation, to get rid of the last aga's, to fight for equality between kurdish men and woman and try to get the ugly pieces of our culture out like blood-revenge, honour-revenge, forced marriages and much more.
But since apo is known for his love for power, i doubt he would ever let this happen without something in return for himself.